HMS Triton by Justin P. - FINISHED - Scale 1:48 - Cross Section

[BobG]

Thanks, Justin, for taking the time to for writing such a thorough response.

 

I'll start small with the Byrnes table saw and disk sander and, perhaps, the thickness sander and then go from there as needed. I could ask a lot of questions about each machine but I don't want to go down a rabbit hole that distracts from your build log. So I'll save those for later. I'm really looking forward to following your build here. Thanks again.

[Justin P.]

@BobG I was thinking about my earlier response to your question and think I should have pointed out that for my Syren build I’ve used almost no power tools at all, but have easily “constructed” a great deal more.   Probably to do with kit v. scratch, but I also wonder about scale.  Parts are so much smaller on the Syren that even if I was scratch building it, I wonder if I wouldn’t mostly be cutting and sawing by hand regardless.   Anyway, just a thought...

[Justin P.]

Framing Complete.

 

Happy to come to the end of these building steps.   Ive built all the frames, cleaned them up, and drilled and installed all the treenails.   I was very please with how this turned out, as the Cherry provided a nice contrast to the maple and should balance out with the other Cherry components I plan to make.  

 

Today I started installing the frames onto the keel, cut out some spaces and enjoyed watching the hull come together.   I used a jig for this process similar to those which others have used and is similar to what we all use to raise and square up bulkheads on kit builds.   With each my process was to glue (PVA) the frame in place, using the jig to square up the center lines and frame.   I then drilled down through the flour and treenailed the frame to the keel.   

I use this 3M double sided tape to hold the keel in place.  It is incredibly strong, but comes off really cleanly if not left too long.   Not seen in the above photo is my upright jig part. 

The whole thing is very rigid now, and surprisingly balanced and square.   Im very pleased.   Ive left the keelson area deliberately a bit rough so I can do the final fit with everything in place.  

Keelson here just set in place, I still need to finish filing that groove to get a nice fit.  

[BobG]

Wonderful work, Justin!

[Edwardkenway]

Very nice looking frames, good job!

[Justin P.]

One step forward...   one giant leap back.  

 

Geez....   where do I even begin.  Last week I started fairing a bit, having completed most of the major hull construction.   Needless to say the big lesson here is that fairing hardwoods is not the same as fairing basswood or plywood bulkheads.   No big deal, just sand and sand and sand...   takes time.   However - one must always watch the backstroke.   Somehow... and Im not entirely clear on how this happened...  I messed up.   I hope the problem is obvious in the photos...

 

My theory is that I let my mind wander a bit too much while I was sanding, and just didn't pay enough attention to how my downstroke was rounding out.   A phenomenon that carried on far too long...ha.    Sadly, I cant even recall what I was so busy thinking about.

 

There were seven complete stages of grief, Ill spare you all the grisly details but will share that one of my daughters asked that night at dinner "So...   what happened in the garage earlier Poppa? - It didn't sound great."   

 

---

 

Its been almost a complete week since this happened.  I can say that I honestly tried to find a way to recover.   In the end I settled on rebuilding that "C" frame, hoping that I could simple fair back the new frame into the existing shape of the hull and everything would be fine.   And I did remake that frame - and this would have been a fine solution -  but in my haste to remove the offending frame, I damaged the keel.  This being the display "face" of the whole model it was all just too much for me to accept.   

 

As with any build we accumulate a list of "we'll do it differently, and better next time" items.   My list, reached the threshold with these last two errors.   The keel had a few issues, and the frames have had a running list of their own.  My threshold for acceptability has been reached.   So..   Im starting over.  

 

Ill remake all the frames and though Ive remade the keel about 4 times, Im going to do it again.   While some might argue that this is a case of perfect being the enemy of good -  for me, its a case of making sure the lessons are learned.   Learning was the whole point of this build as I understand it, so as painful as it is - Im retiring this hull to the boneyard.   Not to mention that if ever there was an argument for rookies NOT to buy a bunch of boxwood this is it ;).   Im thankful I stuck with domestics as the hit on my wallet is far less than it could be.   

 

Precision takes time, and even when I think Ive learned the lesson to slow down, I learn yet again that I must slow even more - to think everything out more than twice.   To try and envision how each decision will impact the next three steps and never let my mind wander too much!   Its times like these that I have to remember to tip my hat to the Antscherls, Herberts, Passaros, and Tostis out there whose skill and precision likely didn't come overnight.   I like to think their bone pile is much higher than my own ;).  Not to mention those unpublished folks here on MSW whose work has me always wanting to do better, and whose contributions teach me something new almost every day - there are just too many to name.   

Edited March 1, 2021 by Justin P.

[Matt D]

Well that stinks, Justin.  I’m sorry that happened.  I’ve had it happen several times that I’m trying to slowly creep up on “just enough” sanding and somehow overshot by a mile.  It’s painful.  I also know the feeling of trying to carefully remove a piece and instead wrecking the whole thing.  The good part is that you have this frame making business down pat, so your new set will be terrific.  I’m looking forward to seeing it.

[WalrusGuy]

I'm so sorry to hear what happened Justin. I'm sure your next attempt will be much better since you learnt and honed all the skills to come this far. I also read somewhere that Greg Herbert had to restart his Swan class build after a year of progress. From what I recall his second attempt had no errors since he learnt from his mistakes, and also refined the needed skills. 

[BobG]

Well that's a bummer, Justin. Each of us has to personally make the call as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable when it comes to the our models. I've struggled with this at some point with each model that I've built. Last night I heard Lionel Richie tell a heartbroken contestant on American Idol that, "When you win, you win and when you lose, you learn." I thought that was a very wise statement and a great way to reframe our disappointments. I look forward to continuing to follow your build.

 

 

[mtaylor]

Justin, 

Don't feel bad.   Every new journey into uncharted territory has it's problems.  Starting over is often the best as it re-enforces the lessons we've learned.  I think you've made the right choice.  Sometimes things are salvageable and sometimes not.  Hang in there.  You'll get and the result will be great.

[Justin P.]

Triton Hull part II:

 

Not much technically to update other than to say Ive finally finished reframing the hull.  Lots learned, so in the end Im happy to have gone through with it.   I did a few things differently which helped tremendously in time, cushion and level of frustration.   Namely, I waited to take down the material to the plan lines until after I had the entire frame built and I stopped trying to make treenails of the same diameter as the hole drilled, fit.  Taking them down one step made for a much better fit and a lot fewer broken pieces.   

Roughly faired, with keelson ready to go.  

 

 

[Edwardkenway]

Looks really nice, clean and sharp🙂

[Matt D]

They look great, Justin!  I’m glad to see you recovered and it’s going well for you.

[mtaylor]

Looking good, Justin.   Sometimes, the best lessons are those hard earned even if it means going back a few steps.

[Justin P.]

Slow and Steady wins the Race.

 

Among other things in the past month I have steadily made progress on the Triton.  I started adding some inner planking, thick stuff and keel components.   I suppose this is the rather boring part of the build as far as build logs go but anticipate much more to discuss when we get to deck framing and other more interested (challenging steps).  Though I do rather enjoy the process of shaping and fitting each of these planks.   Its slow, rather straightforward and gives a pleasing result.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Justin P.

[BobG]

Very, very nice work, Justin!

[mtaylor]

It might be boring but the satisfaction puts it right at the top.   Well done.

[WalrusGuy]

She's looking really good, Justin! So crisp and tidy 🙂

[Justin P.]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:50 PM, mtaylor said:

It might be boring but the satisfaction puts it right at the top.   Well done.

Indeed it does.  Thanks.

[Justin P.]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:59 PM, WalrusGuy said:

She's looking really good, Justin! So crisp and tidy 🙂

Appreciate the kind words, Im trying.   As always there are still little errors here and there that tend to be all I can see but it helps to be reminding that others are seeing some sort of success!   Thanks.

[Justin P.]

Started in on the inner treenails ala @ChadB, after flushing up the planking to the frame face.   Used a very similar approach to him, and followed his practice of 1mm for the thick stuff and will go down to .5mm for the planking.  I very much appreciate his build log for the guidance which has acted (among others) as a sort of manual for my first fully scratch build.   It will help tremendously I think for future builds where there might not be so much previous work to rely on. 

 

Ill be using Walnut for the treenails.   Which provides the nice step down in color from the cherry.  

 

 

 

 

 

[egkb]

Wonderful Work Justin .. Inspiring Stuff !

 

Eamonn

 

PS I rather like your wood choice too.. 

[Justin P.]

First phase of treenails done.   Thankfully.   Doing 10-20 of these is kind of fun, doing 500 and at the smaller diameters, not so much.   

 

(After a light application of wipe-on poly.)

 

At this point its a little unclear where I should start on the next phases, so I just went with what appealed to me and started construction of the lower deck.   I still don't really know what the best approach is here.   Once the main deck beams are cut, cambered and ready Im not sure if I should attempt construction of the rest of the structure (carlings, etc) in-situ or off the model and hope I can fit the completed deck into place.   Its so much easier to get precise cuts and chiseling outcomes if done off the model but Im worried it work end up fitting properly.

 

(Bending the deck beams gently, note the mishap holes in my frames where my drilling for treenails got a little sloppy.  Thankfully those will get hidden). 

I started in on the beam arms as well.  Which has gone better than I expected.   One complication I have been hassling over is the camber of the beam arms matching the camber of the deck beam.   In the end Ive left them flat and decided I would just sand and shape as needed after joining them.   The plans show a clearly cambered shape of the this component but I don't know...   Im not sure it needs to be as dramatic as it looks in the profile drawing. 

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Justin P.

[Edwardkenway]

Very nice work Justin,  doing the deck in situ is a bit more awkward but ensures a near perfect fit, building off the model is easier but can give fit problems. I did my lower deck off the model and ended slightly small (0.5mm or so). Both have their pros and cons.  

When all is said and done, it is your preference for your build.

Whatever you choose to do, I'm sure it will be of an excellent standard as your work upto now😉

[Matt D]

That looks excellent, Justin!  Your joints look very tight.  Well done!

[Justin P.]

24 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Your joints look very tight.

Thanks Matt!   Though in the spirit of full transparency, they "look" tighter than they are.   An old trick I learned was that some gaps can be made less obvious if you cut your PVA with about 1:1 glue to fine sawdust of the wood you are joining.   So I ran a piece of scrap maple through a thickness sander and collected the dust, mixed that into a very thick slurry and applied liberally in the joints before clamping the pieces together.   the end result comes out looking much better than my skills could otherwise achieve :).   

[Justin P.]

45 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

Very nice work Justin,  doing the deck in situ is a bit more awkward but ensures a near perfect fit, building off the model is easier but can give fit problems. I did my lower deck off the model and ended slightly small (0.5mm or so). Both have their pros and cons.  

When all is said and done, it is your preference for your build.

This is more or less what I would expect.   Im thinking through some options to do a bit of a hybrid...   maybe there is a way to temporarily fix items as I go? So that I can do a bit of both. 

[Matt D]

21 minutes ago, Justin P. said:

An old trick I learned was that some gaps can be made less obvious if you cut your PVA with about 1:1 glue to fine sawdust of the wood you are joining.

I need these kinds of tricks in my life!  Thanks for telling me about it.

[Justin P.]

Progress continues...

 

I decided to build the lower deck in-situ as I could anticipate trouble in trying to be certain all my notches and fittings aligned well.   Of course I encountered  a wholly different set of complicated steps that Ive noted for the future build out of the gun-deck.   There are definitely parts of the layout that I feel would have been much easier and more accurate had I made the notches off-model, as well there are some that almost certainly are more accurate having been on done in place.  As a result, many are done to the plans, while other notches were imitated in favor of less accurate flush joints.  Im committed to thinking this through a bit more next time...  a commitment I seem to make a a lot in ship modeling ;).    

 

I also rather stupidly overlooked the need to notch out for the gallows prior to fitting the aft ledge and carlings, despite reminding myself many times!  So I still need to work out a way to get that done without wrecking everything.

 

For the carlings, I used a razor saw which became a favorite tool and a small chisel.   This process worked well until I got into areas where even my razor saw was too large (hence areas that should have been notched ahead of time).   Otherwise, the process was basically as pictured below.

Once I got the deck built out I had to add the hanging knees, which I more or less improvised on.   The plans provide a template for the gun deck knee's which aren't anywhere near the right shape to be used in the hold area.   So I sort of winged it...   They may be changed...    for now Im happy with them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Justin P.

[Justin P.]

The next thing I started in on were the waterways.   Fashioning the shape and style after details referenced by other builders and pursuing a few of the well-known sources I made a few prototypes using a micro-mill that just didn't really do the trick as well I wanted.   So I pulled out one of the AL micro-scrapers I had and found a shape that actually matched what I was after pretty perfectly.   

I chose then to go ahead and make up the bitts and gallows as I wanted to be able to plank the lower deck up to the actual part rather than hope it works out later.   I also chose to install the waterways at this stage as well, so I could pull a pattern off the subtle curvature of the install piece.   This I imagined would better facilitate shaping the final deck plank (planked center outward).  

 

I turned the bitts from Cherry and then initially milled out the sheaves-ports before finishing them with a small file to square them up.   I then turned the actual sheaves from Maple on a midi lathe.  One fitted I used a cherry dowel to set them.  

I then tacked the bitts in place with their cross-piece using tiny amounts of glue and proceeded with planking.  

 

 

Thats where we are now.   Im off to sail the Puget Sound for the next 10 days so that will be that for now.   

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Justin P.