TEV Wahine by Richard Dunn - Radio - scale 1:35 - 1965

[Tony Hunt]

It's coming along really well Richard.

 

Although it seems a bit more like ship-building than ship-modelling!  

[Lubber Line]

Wonderful project and results. I’m a friend of the late Murray Robinson and he would have loved to see it. Keep up the good work and I look forward to some footage of her in the water.

 

Someone earlier asked a question about why the ship had both bow thruster and bow rudder. I can answer that: a rudder becomes increasingly effective as the water flow over it increases (like an aircraft wing). Importantly it has negligible effect when the water flows over it in the “wrong” direction (we are talking about ships here, not boats which will get some turning effect from rudder when moving astern) so a bow rudder is completely ineffective when the ship moves ahead (in fact most were mechanically locked so as not to be exposed to forces accidentally by a ship steaming on passage at full sea speed). So when manoeuvring astern at higher speeds the bow rudder would be used. A lateral thruster works whether moving ahead or astern but becomes increasingly ineffective as fore and aft speed increases, so when manoeuvring at lower speeds astern or when moving ahead or stopped in the water the thruster would be used. In Lyttelton Wahine and Maori used to turn to port outside the entrance to the inner harbour and back into 2 West berth. The bow rudder would have been very useful backing down on the linkspan at speeds of 5 or 6 knots. In Wellington they swung closer to the berth and had less distance to run astern. In that case the speeds would have been lower and the thruster more useful.

[Roger Pellett]

Up here on the Great Lakes most ports are tiny as they are located at the mouths of small rivers that drain relatively flat landscapes.  Prior to adoption of bow thrusters two techniques were used for turning long ships in confined spaces.

 

The first was pivoting on a dropped anchor.  The SS Badger built in c1950 as a cross lake railroad car ferry now carries passengers and their cars across Lake Michigan.  Upon arrival at Ludington, Michigan she was still using this technique  in 2007, the last time that we crossed the lake aboard her.

 

The second was “winding.”  To include the most volume and displacement into hulls of restricted dimensions, Great Lakes bulk carriers were built with plumb bows.  In ports with improved harbors the vessel could be turned by pressing the bow against the side wall, putting the rudder hard over and using the thrust against the rudder from the screw to kick the stern around.

 

Today, all active Great Lakes cargo vessels are fitted with bow and often stern thrusters.

 

Roger

[Lubber Line]

7 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Up here on the Great Lakes most ports are tiny as they are located at the mouths of small rivers that drain relatively flat landscapes.  Prior to adoption of bow thrusters two techniques were used for turning long ships in confined spaces.

 

The first was pivoting on a dropped anchor.  The SS Badger built in c1950 as a cross lake railroad car ferry now carries passengers and their cars across Lake Michigan.  Upon arrival at Ludington, Michigan she was still using this technique  in 2007, the last time that we crossed the lake aboard her.

 

The second was “winding.”  To include the most volume and displacement into hulls of restricted dimensions, Great Lakes bulk carriers were built with plumb bows.  In ports with improved harbors the vessel could be turned by pressing the bow against the side wall, putting the rudder hard over and using the thrust against the rudder from the screw to kick the stern around.

 

Today, all active Great Lakes cargo vessels are fitted with bow and often stern thrusters.

 

Roger

 

Thanks Roger. I’ve used anchors many times to turn in tight spaces and dredged anchors on a short length of cable into spaces when I didn’t have a tug or thruster, or if I needed to control speed and give myself something to drive against with the engine.

 

I’ve never done the pivot on the bow manoeuvre and most ships these days couldn’t since the near universal adoption of bulbous bows. However I was on a ship with a specially designed semicircular, strengthened, vertical plated ship that we used to do the same thing with in a river: back down a mile, come alongside and put out a big mooring line aft on a very strong bollard then keeping the stern on the berth allow the bow to come out into the flow. The ship would swing around 140 degrees then we would let go aft and steam away downstream to the bar. 120m long ship so nothing like those big lakers but a similar principle to what you saw done there.

[Lubber Line]

Oops. Specially designed stern I should have said.

[Richard Dunn]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:58 PM, Lubber Line said:

Wonderful project and results. I’m a friend of the late Murray Robinson and he would have loved to see it. Keep up the good work and I look forward to some footage of her in the water.

Thanks Lubber line,
Yes I knew Murray for a few years and a lot of his material he passed on to me for my models, he did see the first attempt before he got sick thankfully.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Lubber Line]

Good to hear that he saw your model and I’m sure he appreciated the project it would become.

 

I collaborated with some of his book writing research and articles. I would love to see Murray’s website professionally curated and managed. It is still up, but for how long I don’t know. Not sure if you saw any or not but Murray’s profile paintings of USSCo and other glamour ships were fantastic.

[Richard Dunn]

I saw one I think, and he was doing a Wahine one ,I know because he asked me for a side render of my digital cad model I did for a film that never happened, to use as a base to work over.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

I should point out that these are the digital model images that I based my model off, all built from actual ship plans.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Edited August 2, 2022 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

The images above give a good overall view of the fit out and details that have to be made.
Building a vacuum form tool this weekend so I can start on  carving the male plugs for the lifeboats. funnel-cap and bridge front roof screen and get them formed up.

[carlo_l]

Impressive. Looking forward to see new updates 😍

[KrisWood]

The level of detail you've mastered here is absolutely amazing! I'll be watching this project closely from now on.

[yvesvidal]

Richard,

 

We all hope you are doing good and finding some time to work on that beautiful model.

 

Yves

[Richard Dunn]

Hi Guys

Been taking some time to recharge and work on some other projects around the house, landscaping etc.
Should be back onto it very soon.
Also going to be building a built up model as secondary project while glue dries, a lot of that coming up.
I am going to do the Le Gros Ventre at 1/36 in American Cherry and Anigre.
I have wanted to do one like this for my whole life but needed the time.
I should probably start a new build for this but have had the wood for some time and have now got a  Proxxon mill.
I was able to get the last of the American Cherry in Australia so secured 3 beautiful knot  free ish boards 2m long 300x50mm, should be enough I think..........
The knots it has are such that I can get accurate crooked grain around them for knees.
I have not sawn it up yet.
Really looking forward to getting my fine detail woodwork/guitar making skills back out of the closet and use them.

[mtaylor]

Sound like a great project, Richard.  I'll be looking forward to your build log on the Le Gros Ventre.

[Richard Dunn]

Today I prepared the files for making all the deadlights and portholes.
the  window itself is cut out and must eventually fit into a precisely cut opening  in the plate with no gap and no pressure needed, the window is then put into an aluminium jig and the outer frame and rigol bent into the jig and once the ends are in place it holds itself up against the outer edge of the jig, once a light application of styrene glue is applied it can be taken out of the jig, the transom of the window glued on and it can be painted ,glazed and glued into the actual plate before being glued to the model.

Here are the first tests I did, 14" and 16" portholes, the deadlights frame needs to be dipped in hot water and pre bent around a former before being put into the jig as you can see here at bottom it started to fragment while being pushed into the corners.

 

And the rough semi broken frame but the process will work, only 270 to make....... I could cast them in resin but want the advantage of a solid weld betweeen the frame and plate so by using styrene I get that.

Also I have found a very very believable way to do the frame distortions and it is super easy and it looks amazing!, I will cover it soon once I get some plates on the model.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Hopefully someone can answer this question.
What is the function of this line?, it's on both sides of the ship when she is in service.

It seems to be steel cable in better images.

It clearly goes into the anchor recesses and I assume up the hawse.

[KeithAug]

On 5/1/2023 at 9:01 AM, Richard Dunn said:

It clearly goes into the anchor recesses and I assume up the hawse.

I wonder if it is a line for an anchor marker buoy. Attached to the anchor with a buoy on the deck. Drop the anchor and throw the buoy overboard so the buoy marks the position of the anchor. This lets other vessels know where the anchor is so they are not inclined to drop there hooks on top of it.

Edited May 2, 2023 by KeithAug

[Richard Dunn]

That makes perfect sense so in theory I should be able to see that on the foredeck in aerial photos.

[Jim Lad]

Interesting theory, Keith but:

a) I've never seen merchant ships using anchor buoys - and it would need to be a very long line to reach sown to the anchor; and

b) I wouldn't be using wire rope on a buoy.

 

Not something I've seen at all, Richard.  Could it be some special use for the ferry operation?

 

John

[Richard Dunn]

I have no idea but its in a few shots after she was in service a while  not in early days though.
I have a shot by Warwick Pryce I have cropped ,it's from Murrays old site but here it is in more detail

[aliluke]

Hi Richard

I'm a late comer to your log. Your model of Wahine is extraordinary - in scale, research, detail and results. I can't offer anything to you on how you do this - way beyond my modeling skills!

 

I was eight years old when the Wahine Storm struck. I remember it vividly from our home in the northern suburbs, watching trees flying through the air on the ridges of Mt Kaukau and listening to pine cones slamming into and smashing our tile roof. Two days later we went down to Fort Dorset to look at the wreck. I was excited about that but when we got there I remember the actual terror of seeing Wahine lying on her side so very close to shore. I was shaken.

 

I had never been on Wahine but, as a younger boy, had done several trips with my mum and brother on T.E.V Maori - Wellington - Lyttleton - Wellington. We'd always got E Deck as it was on the waterline and much cheaper for the swishing noise of water keeping you awake. I loved that. Maori was also a very beautiful ship. My grandmother was booked for the 10 April crossing on Wahine but had to cancel for reasons that I forget. I doubt she would have survived that. She came up to Wellington on Wahine's replacement, Rangatira, for a while afterwards until air travel killed the route for good. I have crossed Cook Strait many, many times. Starting in Aramoana and then Awanui and lately in their new fleet plus on Bluebridge. The earlier trips on Aramoana/Aranui where often epic as safety was less of a concern then than it is now. I've crossed in monster seas on Aramoana where the propellers came out of the water as the ship dived into a trough. Luckily I am immune from seasickness and the rougher it got the better it was for me and that holds true even now.

 

The Wahine Storm was not cyclonic. It was a collision of two fronts from the north and south that caught the meteorologists completely off-guard. I read a few years ago that even with current computer modelling, the way this storm behaved could not have been predicted by computers. Wind speeds hit 135mph but it wasn't a cyclone.

 

I'm sure you know of Dan Flannery's diorama of the Wahine capsize which is displayed in The Wellington Museum. https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/media/wahine-model.138970/ I am fortunate to own one of his dioramas in a case - a Norwegian whaler with a surfacing whale alongside - that I picked up on Trademe for a pathetically cheap price. His models were/are incredible.

 

Anyway, that diverts from your project which I'll now follow. The size of your model is amazing!

 

Cheers

A

[Richard Dunn]

20 minutes ago, aliluke said:

Wind speeds hit 135mph but it wasn't a cyclone.

We recently found the wind speed measurements from 8 points around the city as used in the enquiry, at the time of her being exposed to that and being pooped and subsequently broaching in 30m waves the gusts were 275kms!
they were among the archives data we sorted last month

Edited May 3, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Not sure if I have posted this but this is from the Navy survey of the hull bottom.

 

[Valeriy V]

5 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

I have no idea but its in a few shots after she was in service a while  not in early days though.
I have a shot by Warwick Pryce I have cropped ,it's from Murrays old site but here it is in more detail

 

Is this option possible - to feed the towing cable through the anchor fairleads?

[hof00]

1 hour ago, aliluke said:

Hi Richard

I'm a late comer to your log. Your model of Wahine is extraordinary - in scale, research, detail and results. I can't offer anything to you on how you do this - way beyond my modeling skills!

 

I was eight years old when the Wahine Storm struck. I remember it vividly from our home in the northern suburbs, watching trees flying through the air on the ridges of Mt Kaukau and listening to pine cones slamming into and smashing our tile roof. Two days later we went down to Fort Dorset to look at the wreck. I was excited about that but when we got there I remember the actual terror of seeing Wahine lying on her side so very close to shore. I was shaken.

 

I had never been on Wahine but, as a younger boy, had done several trips with my mum and brother on T.E.V Maori - Wellington - Lyttleton - Wellington. We'd always got E Deck as it was on the waterline and much cheaper for the swishing noise of water keeping you awake. I loved that. Maori was also a very beautiful ship. My grandmother was booked for the 10 April crossing on Wahine but had to cancel for reasons that I forget. I doubt she would have survived that. She came up to Wellington on Wahine's replacement, Rangatira, for a while afterwards until air travel killed the route for good. I have crossed Cook Strait many, many times. Starting in Aramoana and then Awanui and lately in their new fleet plus on Bluebridge. The earlier trips on Aramoana/Aranui where often epic as safety was less of a concern then than it is now. I've crossed in monster seas on Aramoana where the propellers came out of the water as the ship dived into a trough. Luckily I am immune from seasickness and the rougher it got the better it was for me and that holds true even now.

 

The Wahine Storm was not cyclonic. It was a collision of two fronts from the north and south that caught the meteorologists completely off-guard. I read a few years ago that even with current computer modelling, the way this storm behaved could not have been predicted by computers. Wind speeds hit 135mph but it wasn't a cyclone.

 

I'm sure you know of Dan Flannery's diorama of the Wahine capsize which is displayed in The Wellington Museum. https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/media/wahine-model.138970/ I am fortunate to own one of his dioramas in a case - a Norwegian whaler with a surfacing whale alongside - that I picked up on Trademe for a pathetically cheap price. His models were/are incredible.

 

Anyway, that diverts from your project which I'll now follow. The size of your model is amazing!

 

Cheers

A

Yup,

I was eight also living in Eastbourne.

The wind was really something!!

 

I heard also at the time that it was two storms colliding but called the Storm "Cyclone Giselle."

(Please correct me if I am in error.)

 

Cheers....HOF.

[Richard Dunn]

1 hour ago, Valeriy V said:

s this option possible - to feed the towing cable through the anchor fairleads?

No because Wahine was exempt from needing towing, she had lateral thrusters and a bow rudder to manoeuvre and did not require a tug unless the wind was extreme.
The ferries even now don't need them either.

[aliluke]

19 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

We recently found the wind speed measurements from 8 points around the city as used in the enquiry, at the time of her being exposed to that and being pooped and subsequently broaching in 30m waves the gusts were 275kms!
they were among the archives data we sorted last month

That's incredible. It is only my memory that tells me it was 135 mph measured on the top of Mt Kaukau. 275 kph - 170 mph! No wonder then that pine trees were flying through the air up there.

 

And you are right HOF - I didn't know that. I had a look at NIWA data: https://hwe.niwa.co.nz/event/April_1968_New_Zealand_Ex-tropical_Cyclone_Giselle

Edited May 4, 2023 by aliluke

[Richard Dunn]

My parents both worked at the Union Steam Ship company on the corner of Customhouse quay and Johnson st, mum recalls a woman rolling up the street like tumble weed,unable to stand up and dad coming down the Nauranga gorge with the torrents of water in the gutters going uphill!