TEV Wahine by Richard Dunn - Radio - scale 1:35 - 1965

[aliluke]

My mum went out that morning to bring in very less than dry washing. Just as she got inside a large tree crashed down onto the steps to our washing line. Seconds earlier it could have killed her. Wind in Wellington can be extreme but that day was the most extreme. Funnily enough, in recent weeks it has been calm as a millpond. Breathless.

 

But back to your model - I am fascinated now how it will play out...

[Richard Dunn]

I wanted to share the process for the tin-canning of the plates now that I think I have found a good result I am very happy with.
After many trails and failures the result was insanely easy in the end.

I want to start by saying I have done a lot of tests with Styrene, not evergreen styrene BTW but another commercial kind and glued it to ply and exposed it to some extreme temp jumps, ranging from 20 degree to 6 degree over a few months now and have had no effect, this might have something to do with small plate sizes and the seam being glued into the gaps, thereby creating an expansion joint of sorts but none the less I have had no issue and that's without paint. I did not exceed direct sun exposure time of 2 hours and not on super hot days which I would not do anyway.

The biggest plate is 290mm x 65mm , most are about 200mm x 50mm just for reference.
Right to the plates.
Each plate is cut from my 3d model on the CNC including windows and doors, some might be hand fitted if something changed, but after it's fitted to the model I transfer framing lines to the back side of the plate, not just frames but stringers ,girders and longitudinals in general, if it shows on the ships skin, mark it on the plate.
I then cover the good side with a blue protective film to keep the surface in good order until priming time.

If you don't use CNC just draw the plates out on surface and trace them through to the styrene and cut them out ..5mm is still transparent enough to see through...just.

I then very very lightly scrape the front edge of the plate where a weld seam will be at a 45ish degree, just enough to see a thin white line around the blue, this forms a very small groove when 2 plates are glued side by side that the ,5mm styrene rod is glued into to form the  weld seam.
Once this is done I lay the plate face down on a hard rubber mat and the magic happens, I roll over the lines with a Pizza cutter!!, vary the number of times from frame to frame and press hard!, sometimes I go twice, sometimes 5 times,. use a wood block to run against to keep the cutter straight and once done the plate is ready to be glued to the model with medium thick Starbond Cyano.

I first expected the Pizza cutter to just create raised lines but buy having the rubber underneath it creates the exact dished profile!,

The surface is near impossible to keep free of glue smear from Cyano when a little squeezes out the side but due to it being thicker we have about 1 min to quickly wipe the edge and run around the plate with a scraper to clean any small bead of squeeze out.

The results speak for themselves.
I shot his with garage door open so the strong backlight makes it show up but it's subtle.

I should also add I tried using Techni glue to glue the Styrene which is a top notch commercial epoxy but even with keying the styrene it pulls away with a bit of effort, the Starbond Cyano however is a different story, even with no keying and gluing the glossy side it tears off in tiny chunks and will NOT come off.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Some updates to the plating and fitting of the windows and portholes.
the tinn canning should be apparent as well as some weld seams visible.

Note the gaps along the bottom of the Superstructure are all covered by a 6" or 4mm 

' wide deck bar that is on all Superstructure parts but because its painted Buff I will pre paint those and glue later, but that will tidy up the joints to be gap free..

Below

flanged bulwark stays being fitted. note the notches around weld seams are included. this areas has the weld beads done, the gap to the right is the removable windlass section, the grey part is a rubber compound over he steel which ends there.

the bulwark will be cut to a nice curve and into the upstand one the plates are glued on

note the holes drilled for the bars over the porthole, this was the ships prison.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

[ccoyle]

To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee: "That's a model!"

[Mirabell61]

excellent work Richard,

its a pleasure to watch the progress

 

Nils

[Richard Dunn]

Thanks guys.
I hope to have a few plates on hull this weekend, not window ones so quick to do.

[Richard Dunn]

I took a shot with extreme backlight from outside as the sun was going down which shows the tin canning off in high detail, its not this pronounced normally (like above shot) but you can see the plates, deck boundaries and tripping brackets on web frames

Note  the actual photo taken from other direction but how the ramp is visible through the plates as is all structure

The small gaps for the.5mm rod weld seams can be seen between plates, also how some plates are thicker than others and stand out, as per the plating plan.

once the surface is an even patina and primed it will look a lot neater but you get the idea hopefully.

 

[Jim Lad]

I missed your previous update as I was away up the coast, Richard.  She's looking really amazing. Getting a better idea of her size from the images taken with the garage door open. I the weight going to be a problem when she's finished?

 

John

[Richard Dunn]

No  it's managable.
If you are ever up this way, call in Jim.

[Jim Lad]

To right, mate!

 

John

[Kevin-the-lubber]

The tin canning effect is very realistic, Richard. That is one big ship! 

[Richard Dunn]

Thank you
Yeah it does look overdone in the shot, partly because of the high gloss on some of the plates and also due to the zoom on the camera but its still got to be sanded a bit and primed.
I will be starting to plate the bottom part of the hull soon, as soon as I finish the bow rudder I can go to aft end of bilge keels. and will prime that in red oxide before going further aft as their is still bit to do down that end .
I still have the rudders to make and fit, the prop bossing's to make, just waiting on a plan from archives I need replaced and the stern lateral thruster to fit.
The joint around the hull has been fitted so I can butt the plates to a nice crisp angle and will start with the top strake of plates, its actually really not as hard as I thought, 90% of the plates are not requiring heating to conform to the compound shapes, the hull is such that most conform as is, only the ones on the midship bilge area will need to be heat formed.

The many openings in the hull will be done after priming, and soooo many to do above and below WL, some are 12mm diameter, some are just 2mm but about 100 all up I suspect.

I am in the process of trying to get some resin waterslide decals made for the rivets, plimsol and depth number from Railtec in the UK as they do custom stuff, but have grave concerns about this as just not hearing from them.
I will update on this if I hear something as they seem to do a good job, but I suspect I am in for a too long of a wait and looking at other options as communication is just not happening.. had 3 props made   by prop shop in UK in half the time I have been waiting for even a quote
If anyone knows another source please let me know, and they do need to be custom, Archer do not make anything suitable

Edited July 4, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

That invitation goes for anybody that happens to be in Logan Reserve in Brisbane, feel free to let me know if you want to look at the model.

[Richard Dunn]

I need some help guys
What's the best way to simply have an on off switch for a motor using a servo to control it, basically I just want to make the electronics to turn off and on the lateral thrusters, no speed control is needed just off and on.

I would assume a contact point that can be depressed with the arm of the servo which in turn is controlled by a  servo trigger board to control the arm on the servo's range.

Some updates to the running gear installation.

Hull has been glassed and sanded.

Lateral thrusters installed and bell mouths shaped the tunnel has to come out and have the grill soldered into the brass part and painted then it can go back in and the hull plating proceed.

Bow  Thruster

The aft portion of this still has to have the fairing scoop shaped out of the hull

as can be seen here

The aft tunnel

The rudder horn being fitted

and the Bow rudder frame is shaped, so is the rudder but not shown here, the tapered cylinder above is the bossing for one of the prop shafts

Edited July 31, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Innisfree]

Richard,

 

Google RC relay. Apparently purpose-built modules are available for around USD $25 on Amazon.  Sounds like exactly what you are after.

 

Jack

[Roger Pellett]

On-off, how about a solenoid instead of a servo?

[Richard Dunn]

One side painted and installed.

 

Model and actual from wreck

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Veszett Roka]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:42 AM, Richard Dunn said:

What's the best way to simply have an on off switch for a motor using a servo to control it, basically I just want to make the electronics to turn off and on the lateral thrusters, no speed control is needed just off and on.

I would assume a contact point that can be depressed with the arm of the servo which in turn is controlled by a  servo trigger board to control the arm on the servo's range.

Hi Richard,

 

The servo will have other duties as well? I mean like the following: if the rudder reaches 3/4 of its way, a contact point turns the thruster motor on. In this case i'd use reed (magnetic) relays for switch the motor on-off, and a tiny magnet for trigger.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I had without thinking just thought an on off and that's it, no other functions but of course it needs reverse to, so I think I am going to need a speed controller after all fora 12v motor.

 

MFA Torpedo 500 Motor

Reference: MFA/0/4/500

Condition: New product

MFA Torpedo 500 Motor

6v-12v

Dia: 35.7mm

Length 50mm

Weight: 146gm

13,350 RPM at 12V

 Includes: bracket, harness and suppressed.

*Generally used in medium sized models for many functions

Sadly I have zero understanding of electronics so getting all the right gear is a challenge.

I do have all the gear for the main motors though. 

The thruster motors are these so need a speed controller for these and I have a dedicated servo for each thruster already purchased

[Roger Pellett]

A boat that I used to sail on was fitted with a bow thruster.  It was one speed, simply on/off and left and right. It was controlled by a joy stick in the cockpit; probably hooked to nothing more than a three position switch.  Probably little reason to control speed by  RC.  You could mount some sort of speed controller within the hull to adjust it for correct RPM’s by trial and error.

 

Roger

Edited August 1, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[Richard Dunn]

26 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

A boat that I used to sail on was fitted with a bow thruster.  It was one speed, simply on/off and left and right. It was controlled by a joy stick in the cockpit; probably hooked to nothing more than a three position switch.  Probably little reason to control speed by  RC.  You could mount some sort of speed controller within the hull to adjust it for correct RPM’s by trial and error.

Exactly, thats why I initially thought I just need a switch, but having to reverse the motor means I need a speed controller even though I don't need the speed side of things, but being able to power up the thruster instead of just engaging it suddenly is easier on the bevel gears.

If the motor just turns on full tilt it places stress on the poor little buggers.

 

[Richard Dunn]

I have stumbled on a really good technique for shaping plates when you don't want to or can't vacuum form.
First what did not work

Heating the plates in boiling water on a portable stove next to model so plate was on and formed within  2 seconds of leaving the water.

The plastic still sets too quickly.

 

Taping down and heating with heat-gun, it heats unevenly and bubbles and curls.

What did work as can be seen below in the white bilge plates.

Cut the plate double oversize and tape it firmly to the hull on the bottom and fix a heavy counter weight to the bottom hanging edge, I used a metal pipe and tied in on with string through holes in the sheet as tape will let go once heat is applied.
moving the heat-gun really quickly gradually heat the plate in lines and as it starts to soften it stretch's the plate rather than buckle it.

then trim it up
It works!

No bubbles or weirdness, in my case these plates are the only ones that require forming on the hull

[Richard Dunn]

Just an update.

Propeller shafts are installed and bossing's ready to plate.
Rudders are made and installed ready to plate and install servo.
Bow rudder is finished ready to plate.
One A bracket it made and fitted.
Lateral thrusters are installed and the belmouth gratings are being made now, a very tricky job as they are not straight gratings.... of course.
Plating is still proceeding well on lower hull

 

Here is part of a plan showing the aft lateral thruster tunnel grate and the model one ready for soldering.

the part  being indicated by the arrow was a real sod, its done with half checked slots and made from 1mm and ,3mm brass.

The slots are just done with a fine Dremel  grinding blade.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Just an update, we have had a heatwave over here in Australia, so it's been about 35 degrees Celsius, I decided to wait and see what happens to the plating in that heat for a few weeks.

So far no issue at all.
In the meantime I have been building a nice fancy new big workbench.
I also need to find a rope walk.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Well after 8 weeks of 32-38  degrees Celsius no sign of any delamination on unpainted styrene. Will wait a few more weeks while I do this Cutty Sark kit then start on it again.

[Jim Lad]

Good to hear it's all holding up OK, Richard.

 

John

[Richard Dunn]

Yep this is not affected by the heat, neither is the glue, it's been 7 months now since I put this on and we have had temperatures to 38 degrees Celsius outside (100 degrees Fahrenheit), hotter in garage without AC on and it's still not coming off even if I tried, this is I believe due to the Starbond Cyano glue.

In fact getting a plate off even if you want to is a massive job, you have to chisel it off and scrape, you literally cant pull it off.. its amazing'
Of course this has not been in direct sun, not game to do that without paint as UV WILL make the styrene brittle but as long as hot days are avoided and its kept in the case when not in the water I don't foresee any problems.
I know lots of people have warned me about this which is why I have taken the time to test it, all I can say is try it with starbond Cyano its a different result.

vhttps://starbond.com/

 

I should also say that the test samples  done with Techniglue Epoxy have creeped slightly ( almost imperceptible) and as expected contact glued fell off completely, back when I was in the trade and when we needed to remove laminate Formica from something we used a heat gun and scraper to remove it as it's always contact glued so it makes sense that in hot weather its not going to hold, I had also used contact for deck plates on a previous model and that all lifted within 12 months

I want to video me getting a plate off at some point to show everyone how good the bond is, it's actually worth taking the time and showing you. and no sanding or scuffing of styrene was done, just used the dull side.

I have also tried ZAP brand and Bob Smith Industries glue, both worked well but could be pulled off in a couple of pieces, not in the same league  I am afraid, though certainly good enough for a normal sized model but if doing a large surface....., and you have to buy small bottles you need to take out a second mortgage, that's another big advantage to Starbond, it comes in huge 16 fl ounce bottles and is not as expensive proportionally.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Richard Dunn

[64Pacific]

What a great model, the CAD work is really cool!