Brass Blackening Building Time Survey

[Dave_E]

Hi All,

 

This is not another “how do you blacken brass” question, but a question for you who do the brass blackening process. I’m building the Lady Nelson, a small single mast, beginner type ship and after all my experimentation, I think I’m leaning toward brass blackening for my ships. When the parts are in the solution and right after coming out, boy are they black. After rinsing , still black. However when you wipe them down (If you don’t, you’ll have black all over your fingers and then all over your ship), the parts are not black, they are “gun metal”. 
 

So here’s the question: What kind of average time do you spend on the blackening process for a 2 or 3 masted larger ship?

[Roger Pellett]

My “highly scientific” 😏brass blackening system.

 

1. Completely rub down surfaces with sandpaper. 220 grit regular paper works fine.

 

2.  Put sanded parts in a small tin of acetone or lacquer thinner.

 

3. Using tweezers, take parts from acetone and drop them into a small container of blackening solution.

 

4. Wait a while. 10-15 minutes

 

5.  Carefully remove parts and dunk into tin of clean water.  Let them sit a while.

 

6.  Put parts on a piece of paper towel and let dry.

 

7.  Spray part with a coat of matte varnish. I like Dulcote.

 

8.  Pour blackening solution back into bottle.

 

Works every time.

 

Roger

 

 

[BANYAN]

Dave, the answer is: depends on the size of the piece being blackened and on the quality of the brass  (and whether it has been cleaned/prepared properly) and the strength of the solution being used.   If we assume that any part is properly prepared, small bits takes only a minute or so in a solution (even less if full strength solution is needed), a cannon barrel much longer.  If the brass has not been prepared properly it could take several repeated passes through the process.

 

I use a system similar to Roger, but rinse the acetone off before blackening, and I tend to dilute the solution.  As Roger, and others in posts elsewhere stress - the key is good preparation (cleaning etc) of the parts.  I don't know what blackening solution you use, but if properly prepared, I found I still only need less than 5 minutes max in the solution for larger pieces.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited March 22, 2022 by BANYAN

[Dave_E]

5 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Dave, the answer is: depends on the size of the piece being blackened and on the quality of the brass  (and whether it has been cleaned/prepared properly) and the strength of the solution being used.   If we assume that any part is properly prepared, small bits takes only a minute or so in a solution (even less if full strength solution is needed), a cannon barrel much longer.  If the brass has not been prepared properly it could take several repeated passes through the process.

 

I use a system similar to Roger, but rinse the acetone off before blackening, and I tend to dilute the solution.  As Roger, and others in posts elsewhere stress - the key is good preparation (cleaning etc) of the parts.  I don't know what blackening solution you use, but if properly prepared, I found I still only need less than 5 minutes max in the solution for larger pieces.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Hey Pat,

 

The process is all good, I’ve got that down. My question is on a full kits worth of brass to blacken, how much time are you spending on just that process. 10 hours, 2 days?

Edited March 23, 2022 by Dave_E

[allanyed]

Any concerns about time might be considered the antithesis of building a fine ship model 😀  This hobby or even avocation of ours is more like a crock pot than a microwave in getting things done. 

Allan

[Dave_E]

3 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Any concerns about time might be considered the antithesis of building a fine ship model 😀  This hobby or even avocation of ours is more like a crock pot than a microwave in getting things done. 

Allan

I’m totally down with that Allan! After spending a few hours this week, just starting the process, was just curious about the time it takes for a larger model.

[mtaylor]

9 minutes ago, Dave_E said:

I’m totally down with that Allan! After spending a few hours this week, just starting the process, was just curious about the time it takes for a larger model.

I find the time it takes has little to with the size of the parts, but the number of them.   The only difference size has is the amount of  solution and the size of the tub I put them in to blacken.  Once you get it down to a rhythm (after set up) things move right along.

[BANYAN]

Dave, unfortunately, I do my brass work piece-meal as required and don't time it.  In overall 'terms' though I believe it would be no more than one or two (at the most) days (8 hour days) worth for my Endeavour (kit).  The process I use is relatively quick so it that part of my metal-smithing is not really a concern for me.  My current build (HMCSS Victoria) is a scratch build with a fair element of metal work but I will have spent less than half a day total in the blackening process so far.

 

Honestly, most of my time in metal-smithing is put into developing the right jig/holding and soldering arrangements.  The process for actually soldering, cleaning and blackening are pretty quick once the hard-part is done  and most only take a few minutes once the part is made.

 

Mark, I must use a different way, as even if only (say) a single barrel is worked, I rarely get an even coverage/blackening etch on the first pass , yet I can put up to 25 eyes into solution at once and have the entire process (black, rinse, buff) done within two minutes.  Overall, I find that rarely do larger pieces get a full coverage and/or an acceptable finish on the first pass - must be my technique?  The result is that I spend more time doing larger than smaller pieces - the time in the solution is not what I am talking about (that is the same for anything I do).

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Hard to say what's going on, Pat.  I do dilute so perhaps that is why it works for me as it does.  And for large parts, I do "swirl" the liquid a bit every 15-30 seconds.  The old, long gone, and deeply missed "Blacken-it" was great.  Currently, I'm using Birchwood Casey's Brass Black which seems to me, a bit more "fiddly".  Not quite the same.

[allanyed]

"Blacken It" was indeed the best in my experience.  While I still use brass at times I have gone to copper whenever possible as it can be blackened in situ with liver of sulfur and I am very happy with 3D printed cannons in black resin as the detailing is often  superior to turned cannon, especially at smaller scales.  The only problem I have with the 3D parts is my own lack of skill in making the 3D drawings.  

 

Allan

 

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by allanyed

[Thistle17]

Just yeaterday I had to replace a chain plate that broke on a restoration I am doing. I followed Roger's method exactly and the results were disappointing. It came out of the solution (JAX Black) quite dark. I placed in a vial of tap water and the blackened surface turned a bit blotchy. Perhaps it reacted with the tap water treatment residuals. I then let it dry and lightly rubbed it with a clean paper towel and all the black came off. What if anything might I change? The solution, move to distilled water...I am at a loss! These results are consistent with other past attempts.

 

Joe

[Dave_E]

Hi Joe,

 

I would start from scratch and mechanically clean the entire part and start your blacken from scratch. The exposed bare parts are probably oxidized and won’t take the blackening solution. Your results were the same as mine before I mechanically cleaned the parts to remove protective finishes applied by the manufacturer. They blackened beautifully and then whipped right off like yours did. Give it a try. 👍

Edited March 26, 2022 by Dave_E

[BANYAN]

Joe, from my experience and what you describe, I think you need to dilute the blackening agent.  A 100% solution often results in the process reacting too fast.  Rather than etching the surface, it builds a layer of black sooty like residue which easily washes off.  After proper cleaning /preparation, try using a 50/50 solution diluted with demineralised water/blackening agent.  For small part I even go as low as 30/70 (70% water).  The process takes slightly longer, but usually when you take the parts out and rinse, then buff them, you end up with a dark metallic grey finish.  For a darker finish, leave it in a bit longer, or put it back in for a second dip.

 

Hope this helps.  Cheers

 

Pat

[tlevine]

I agree with Dave and Pat.  I typically use a 3:1 dilution (water:blackener).  Before I attempt any blackening, the parts are either soaked in vinegar or warm Sparex.  If they don't look sparkling clean going into the blackener, they will not look good coming out.  If you use Sparex, any forceps you use to remove the parts must be made of copper.  Several short soaks, polishing between each one (wearing gloves so the oils from your hand are not transferred to the part) will give better results than one long bath.

[Roger Pellett]

Joe,

 

Sorry, I should have added step 9; Touch up with black paint! 😀😀. Seriously, I should have mentioned that I use Blacken It.  Apparently it works better than more recently available products.  Also, my surface prep with 220 grit sandpaper gives the brass some tooth.

 

Roger

[Thistle17]

Many thanks for all of your suggestions. I will go back at it again with these updates. If you have had success it can't be "black magic" as I was beginning to believe!

Joe

[mikiek]

All of these responses are a good reason to consider painting the parts black rather than trying to corrode them into a black condition. Much simpler and totally foolproof.