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2nd Layer of Planking Glueing. Thinned or Standard wood Glue?


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I just used PVA straight from the container but then my current build is the first one I've done in a long time that was double planked.  I would think it depends on the length of the plank and how quick you can apply the glue and set it into place before it starts setting up.   The other issue is that water may cause the plank to "warp" away from where it will be applied to the first layer.  Depends on how much water you use to thin it.  If you have extra planking, test to see what happens.   

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OK.  Expressing my philosophy on wood to wood PVA bonding:

I use Titebond II.  If it is getting thick, it is time to get a fresh supply.

At this time and for a while now, I make a puddle on a piece of Cut-Rite wax paper.

I use miniature foam stick applicator.  Round toothpicks and whatever size foam piece will do the coverage I need.

The foam is the squishy packing foam - not the peanut type,  Duco works well to weld the handle to the foam.

I do a just wet coat on both meeting surfaces.  Any squeeze-out means you left too much.

If I want a strong bond, and for some strange reason - and in a very rare situation - I felt the need to dilute PVA - 95% concentration and never less than 90% is as low as I would go.

 

I do use 50:50 dilution of pH 7 Lineco to set linen yarn twisted to rope while it is hanging lead sinkers to set.  It reduces the fuzz and unraveling.

 

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Titebond has a ready to use out of the container Hide glue. Hide glue has a longer open (set) time and gives you more time for larger glue ups. It also is reversible with heat in case you need to fix it. You need to pay attention to shelf life so I buy small bottles. it dries dark so be aware of that. WoodGlues_PP_TBHideGlue.png.f605e7017cdf7cabb1a9fec616d59c0e.png 

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I used ca glue on my first build, as advised by some of the masters here on the sight. I didn’t use pins, nails, rubber bands or anything else to hold a plank in position. This is only possible if the bending and shaping of the plank is done to pretty tight tolerances and the plank just sits pretty in its intended spot. Apply some ca glue hold it in position with finger pressure for a couple seconds… on to the next one.

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Quote from me. "I'll have to check on Titebond and see what the difference between Titebond and Titebond II is." Well I googled it and found out that not only titebond but in general wood glues DO NOT take stain. Then I searched for stainable wood glue and came up with this little tidbit. Elmer's Stainable Wood Glue Max contains real wood fibers that make it especially receptive to sanding and staining. I've been using Elmers wood glue max on all my builds. Go figure!

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Just  bought  - in error - a little bottle of Gorilla CA gel.

But now i have it and am just about to start second planking I feel a slightly pull to the dark side of using  CA rather than my traditional PVA.

 

So if i do decide to try an experimental run - does one just use spots of CA or cover the strip surface.

And because its so fast I cant see myself doing a whole strip in one go - how does on "pick up" from the preceding stuck section . 

 I do have a liberal supply of de-bonder from previous CA encounters!!  

 

Is there any good way of getting rid of CA accidentally marking exposed surfaces - which is another reason why i have always  done PVA and a damp cloth !!

Edited by SpyGlass
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

Is there any good way of getting rid of CA accidentally got on exposed surfaces - which is another reason why i have always  done PVA and a damp cloth

I think you are basically screwed if you get CA on a visible surface.   If you using it on a surface that is too large for the whole to be treated before placement without the first part setting up, it is the wrong glue.   If you are determined to use CA, see if you can find a flavor with a longer open time.

 

I mostly use a single edge razor blade or #11 blade to remove PVA squeeze out.

 

 

Franklin Hide Glue has a LOT of water.  For planking that is veneer thickness, it is probably too much water.  For a permanent  bond, I would use Old Brown Glue.  For veneer thickness, I would probably use flake in a hot pot.  

PVA is so much more convenient,  I have to make a compromise with what was 17th century material.   

 

Hide glue is a protein.  Hot ethanol will completely denature it.  Zero bond.

I tried using it as a reversible bond.  Even on a pilot schooner @ 1:60 the depth of the bond on the moulded dimension face of the frames is too deep for hot ethanol to work without the blast area also affecting the PVA bonds ho;ding the actual frames together.  I know that I could have used newspaper and or spots instead of a double coat of hide glue.  The paper part is too many additional steps for me and the spots - well I am a bit compulsive and pre-programmed. 

I am not happy with Scotch Double Sided tape as a frame spacer reversible bonder,  because of how difficult the residue is to remove from those tight spaces - why HMS Centurion is still on the stocks.   A next hull will probably be done using rubber cement. The debonder - n-heptane - does not affect PVA or wood.

Edited by Jaager
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4 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

does one just use spots of CA or cover the strip surface.

I place drops down (or on the plank) for a small section (how big is up to you) and then press that down and secure it. I then add a few more drops (I usually use a pipette type applicator) and press the next section of the plank down slowly working my way across the entire plank.

 

I think attempting to glue too much at once may not end well.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Is there any good way of getting rid of CA accidentally marking exposed surfaces -

Getting rid of CA is not unlike getting rid of paint.  It depends on how far it has penetrated the wood. It essentially becomes  a layer (thin or otherwise ) of plastic . 

The thickness will vary depending on the initial application.  I go after it with a q-tip and acetone, which dissolves it. Sanding will make it like an application of varnish you are trying to get rid of.

 

In the end, it is not that difficult to hide compared to any other unwanted  contamination.  The trick  is to practice using it, and getting a feel for how much it takes, and avoiding getting it where you don't want it.

 

It's hard to argue with the results when used successfully..  Waiting a few minutes to cure beats waiting overnight..

 

1068896017_Post19-6331.jpg.1675d08944531c467809015a43cc4bba.jpg

 

Winchelsea by G Barlow..

Edited by Gregory
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  • 2 weeks later...

While I use mostly PVA there are times when doing complex joins or following lousy plans that I may have to deconstruct and do it again. In those moments of doubt, I will use CA so that I can take the join apart with acetate to avoid causing problems with other joins nearby.  

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