Wasa by md1400cs - FINISHED - Corel - 1:75

[Blue Ensign]

Fine bit of ropework you've been doing Michael, love your approach to working the mouse.

B.E.

[md1400cs]

EJ,

 

Still laughing  about that your 1/1 photo from your previous post. So thought that I would be a bit immature (my wife swears that I still am (:-))

 

So here is one looking up ha ha - iPhone was none too pleased - too close

[EJ_L]

That is awesome! 

I try not to think of it as being immature but instead maintaining childlike happiness and wonder at the world around me.... 😂😀 

 

Of course I am currently rolling around on the floor with my puppy and trying to type this on my phone so maybe the Admirals are on to something.... 😜

 

Im glad I could bring laughter into your build. It is always a good relief as I know I sometimes find myself stressing a little too much when building. Good to relax! 

[Ferit]

Hi Michael,

At every new photo I admire your progress on perfect details...

As I had said earlier, the MOST perfect item on your ship will be probably the last item added at the end...

[md1400cs]

Hi Mates,

 

Continuing with the mizenmast shroud rigging as a “test start”. This area is all new to me. Ratlines look ok – but will get better. Yes - as has been SO noted very repetitive indeed. And I’ve barely started. So;

 Removed those totally wrong futtock plates and added hooks (to be painted flat black).

 But the following bit is confusing; need to think this bit out.

 Installed the first futtock stave. Should be tarred, but left it as is just to highlight details. But here is where is gets more involved.  I believe that my futtock shrouds are too large. Should have used a smaller diameter rope. Attaching these three shrouds to the stave will make for too “thick” a look (after spooling/tying these to the shrouds).

I think that I will remove a strand from each at the point of attachment; then wrap them over the staves. Also note the 1/10^th photo (during its construction) it appears that these shrouds should also be split and attached in two places. Noted that this photo is for the main mast. Hmmm. I will do that for the center of the three shrouds that I am presently working on. 

 Then again, I may (since I have to remove all of those lower cap plates just re-rope these first three and start again. Just sharing my frustrations (J)))

 

Cheers,

 

[lambsbk]

As always, well done mate.

 

Tell me - does anyone know just how this vessel sank? Was she too heavy? Did someone leave a port open that shouldn't have been?

I'm just curious.

 

Dave

 

USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec - Model Shipways - 1:6

 

[md1400cs]

Hi Mates,

 

Thanks for the nice comments and "likes" - Dave here are some poss. answers for your question;

 

Why VASA Capsized

In the treatise by Curt Borgenstam, Anders Sandstroem "Why VASA Capsized" (AB Grafisk Press, Stockholm 1995, ISBN 91-85268-60-7) the reasons are outlined, after a careful investigation of the wreckage and the historic archives. They concluded:
1. Too many design changes during building were made. The VASA was probably laid down as a "small" ship and completed as a "large" ship, with two gun decks instead of only one as originally planned.
2. The shipbuilding master Henrik Hybertsson became serously ill and died a year before the ship was completed. During his illness he had to delegate the supervision of the project to his assistant Hein Jacobsson. As a result the leadership on the shipbuilding side was very weak. Jacobsson had not even been informed that a stability test carried out in Admiral Fleming’s presence had indicated that the VASA was unstable.
3. By far too little ballast (only about half of the weight needed, as turned out when investigating the wreckage) had been put into the ship. That was ordered by Admiral Klas Fleming, who resented more ballast, as this would have brought the lower line of gun ports too close to the water, and the military usability of the ship would have been hampered.

 

THEN ( my addition - paraphrasing from other sources) based on the above there were also gusty winds that day, the ship badly caught such a gust and listed to one side. This allowed the lower gun deck (with open doors) to ingest too much water. 

[lambsbk]

Thanks Michael for the info. The only good that came with its sinking is the preservation of the ship for us to view today. Pretty amazing.

[md1400cs]

Mates.

More FYI

 

Also the very cold, blackish, very low levels of damaging ultraviolet light, and low salt content of the waters of the Baltic Sea within Stockholm Harbor minimized the amounts of sea life that would normally consume the ship.

Over the centuries the silt kept rising around and protectively covering the ship as well. And the heavily polluted 17^th century water also prevented an infestation of wood-eating “shipworm” parasites.

 

Ironically enough the Vasa is today facing a potential “second death”. It is very slowly decaying inside the museum.

 

Copied/pasted:

 

In 2000, signs of deterioration sprang up on the ship’s surface. A new study published July 6 in Biomacromolecules shows that the ship’s wooden hull has significantly weakened, due to decay of the wood’s structural fibers. The Vasa wood is about 40 percent weaker than regular oak wood, and has become very acidic.

“We found a very clear connection between low pH, high degradation, and a large decrease in mechanical strength,” said study co-author Ingela Bjurhager, a mechanical engineer at Sweden’s University of Uppsala.

 

More copied/pasted:

 

In 2004, the museum upgraded its climate-control system to keep the relative humidity stable, as fluctuating humidity could lead to changes in the shape and weight of the ship. Efforts are also underway to replace the corroding steel bolts that were inserted in the ship during the 1960s with improved stainless steel ones.

The Vasa does not have an immediate risk of structural failure, the researchers concluded. Still, the ship deforms a few millimeters every year. Given the extent of the wood atrophy, “It’s sort of a little bit too late to do anything,” said Bjurhager, who is focusing instead on preventing further deformation. Her team is currently working on a computer model of the ship so they can design a new support structure.

 

 

 

 

[Tallshiptragic]

A beautiful build MD, I once built the old billings Vasa when I was a teenager though it never compared to your amazing work.

[costeo]

Hi, Michael!

Your topic became a tutorial for me for the next my rigging work! Go ahead, I'll just wait every yours posts!

[md1400cs]

Hi mates,

 

Anton T, and costeo - You are so kind –thanks so much for your thoughts

 =======================

 Almost back-to-back updates, this one is small but there was a lot of needed learning. This small bit took almost four hours to figure out and execute. Hmmmm.

 Decided, rather than removing the already attached Futtock shrouds (used Chuck’s .018s his .012s would have been too thin.

 --------------------------------------

 So did the following

 1-2) unspooled the center futtock shroud at the stave. Wrapped it around the stave separating the three “threads, then re spooled them between the shroud to add a bit of glue at the joint.

 

3) removed the third ply from the shroud and attached one to each side of the shroud at the ratline.

 

4-5-6) did the same for the other two end shrouds also removing one strand. After wrapping around the shroud scale “looked” ok.

 

7-8-9) secured the mizzen backstay.

 

10-11) Now onto the lower mainmast shrouds, BUT the dilemma starts. Looked at the 1/1 for guidance, for the mizzen shrouds, then noticed the 1/10^th where the work looked much neater then “finally saw” the difference. Hmmm?

 

12-13) went back to my picture bible (what I have been modeling so far. Then read/looked at Anderson – either way it seems is “ok”.

 

 

Certainly the 1/10^th method would be so much less work, but having already done all the topmasts, the bowsprit area, and the mizzen on one side the Peterson way – I will probably need to continue with the extra work for all of the lower shrouds.

 

PS: I’m not even totally comfortable with the work that I have done tying off the ropes around the shrouds - so dilemma indeed. I assume that ALL “finishing off” as Anderson calls it should be the same for the entire ship?

 

PS: Part of the problem is that I used lines that are probably too large for this area. Though the museum 1/1 seems to use a “thick” rope. Again hmmm

 

As always thanks for your kind thoughts and visits,

 

Cheers,

 

[EJ_L]

I would think that in practice there would be discrepancies in exactly how ropes were tied off from crew to crew based on the instructions from the bosun. I would think though that while differences would be found between ships, that the same practice would be used throughout the same ship. So I would say, stick with the way you have started so they all look the same the same. Unless your bosun was killed in action and replaced midway through by another who wanted to change the existing practices... 

[md1400cs]

EJ,

 

Thanks for your correct thoughts. I came to the same conclusion. I would also regret it as well – on the back-side.

=================

Then (ha ha) decided to speak directly with the Admiral, - go right to the top- explaining all of the extra work that this would require, with the same results. I was told, with an unceremonious response to “return to work, or I would be put into the brig”.

 

It was then also pointed out to me why, after so many years I am still pounding nails, cutting planks, hanging shrouds instead of enjoying tea in a captain’s quarters; Low energy seamen…..it turns out is my fate.

 

Cheers,

 

 

[EJ_L]

Our Admirals often have more common sense about them than we like to admit.

[md1400cs]

Hi Mates,

 

Got myself into a bit of a mess. As I’ve mentioned this is my second build. My Santa Maria so many years ago, by comparison, was a walk in the park, even for me a first time builder.

 Well as I have been really learning so much about rigging this Vasa I realize now, in retrospect, that I had/have very little foresight.

 

 For example; I installed the knights with cross-bits at the base of the foremast and main, without thinking ahead. I was happy that I had learned how to use the Proxxon to make slits for the sheaves. And let it go at that – happy to install. Even added nails in the cross pieces to “look” better.

 

So, now, looking ahead at the Corel rigging plans I realize that the cross-bits also needed pin holes (a lot of them) It took the THIRD, and last Corel rigging page to point this out to me (a learner) grrrrr. There was no way that I could drill these fourteen holes at this point.

 

Thought that I could wiggle the knights free and pull them up through the weather deck. The first set install they were just glued into place on the weather deck. When I built new ones with the sheaves I also cut holes through the deck and ran the new knights to the deck below.

They were not “going anywhere” curses. Then thought that I would just tear out the two cross pieces and make new ones, but was nervous about those cross bit nails.

 

Turns out the nails were only decorative and the cross bits just snapped off using small pliers.

 

=====================

 

Sharing because I’m super relieved, and in case another builder misses this foresight as I did as a newbie.

 

Cheers Mates sorry for the long prose. Ok time for a single malt – I think ha ha

 

 

[EJ_L]

Those belaying pins are great at hiding on the drawings. I have missed several myself but luckily, so far, I have caught them before getting buried.

 

I have found with my set of Corel plans that I have to lay down multiple pages to get the full scope of what is needed for each line of rigging. One page may show the path from the mast or yard, another the close ups of the seizing and a third where it secures to on the deck. While I am getting used to this process now, it took many long and confusing hours to make sense of it all!

 

Glad you were able to fix it without too much trouble!

[md1400cs]

Yes good plan EJ.

Learning is part of the seasoning. This particular "issue" won't happen with my next build. I will certainly do as you suggest also looking at all rigging sheets.

I wonder if the "pin" rigging problem that I had is only particular to Corel instructions?. Though I assume that kits at this level the instruction writers assume that "we know what we are doing" (:-) and would be aware of needed pins later on...

 

That aside, now working on the shroud ratlines for the lower main (first time here as well) So with eight strands clover hitched, realized that rows were not aligning horizontally with the platform above. Though I thought that I had figured this bit in with the first lower row. And, of course, the expert that I am, I glued many of the knots so as not to have then loosen later. HA HA. So had to unstring all the rows and start all over again. Luckily none of the main shrouds were damaged,

 

So learned NOT to glue anything until all rows up to the platform are attached. Then I can use tweezers for minor spacing adjustments. THEN glue. Having fun - good learning going on here as well.

 

Cheers,

[popeye the sailor]

hey there Michael........this is quite a ship your building!   you can't be that much of a novice,  pull'in off some of the stuff I've seen here     really super work.........!   I haven't gone though the entire log.......but I will  

[Baker]

I hope I'm not too late with this picture.

On the original ship in the museum, there are no holes.

 

And this seems to be an original piece of the ship.

[md1400cs]

Popeye thanks SO much for going through this build. Your words are so encouraging as well – thanks again mate

And thanks for all the likes and just dropping by

----------------------------------

Yes yes – “It's All Coming Back to Me Now” (Borrowed this from David Crosby).

After I decided to rebuild the knights, and looking at the 1/1 for how they should look, I did not drill any holes. Thanks Patrick for clearing my weak memory. My initial build, did in fact follow Corel’s instructions (including that railing ha ha)

YES the original not have pinholes. I, now, remember thinking at the time, “well the ropes and shrouds will just wrap around the horizontal frame bit.

 

The 1/10^th has it with pins, so I started panicking (sort-of) forgetting about the 1/1 photos - now that my head is wrapped in standing and running rigging thinking.

 

I then received a call from a MSW friend (who also built the Corel Wasa). He mentioned that he saw my latest post and called to let me know that he had met and spoken with Fred Hocker at a NRG meeting sometime back. Frank showed him iPad photos of his award winning (3) ship. Fred then let him know that the pin rails that Frank had installed (per Corel instructions) are in error as are the 1/10^th.

 

Then Frank did further research and learned that early 1600s shrouds were just wrapped around the horizontal frames. It was not until later in the century that “the lights” came on” for the pins to make much more sense.

I then also looked again that the museum ship plans (1981) also do not have pinholes.

So this mystery is put to rest. This is part of the problem of taking soooo long to complete a ship build – for me anyways.

Let’s see how DeAgostini handles this issue with their new Vasa kit.

 

Cheers,

 

[md1400cs]

Sorry photos came first - need to be more careful (;-)

[EJ_L]

Well now I wonder if I should have them or not on my Couronne build. I think since I already went to the trouble of putting them in I will leave them but that does make me question it now. I wonder also if this will be one of those questions addressed in Vasa II whenever that comes out....

[Karleop]

Hola Michael:

As in the picture of the museum in  BB Vasa instructions there are not holes in the cross bits and the lines are only coiled on the cross. If you already made the new holes it will easy to omit them.  Here a picture of my Vasa:

 

Saludos, Karl

 

 

[Baker]

I'm glad I could help.

Another BB Vasa without the pinoles  

[md1400cs]

Thanks Mates for your posts.

 

Karl, I just looked at the pin locations sheets you sent me, and no the Billings do not have pins either in of those two locations.

PS: Karl, mi compadre, I will be re-visiting your log for sails help (:-) 

 

Patrick thanks again.

 

So just the Corel AND the museum's 1/10th got it wrong - now that's an irony indeed.

 

EJ, might want to ask some questions at "masting, rigging, sails. Certainly members who have not followed this particular thread would have this knowledge base, and they would certainly be helpful. 

Your Couronne was built at the same time as the Vasa. I'm sure that the French were "ahead" of any navy's of their day - I'm sure that they thought as much then, prob. still do today ha ha. So keep the pin holes!! But that would be interesting historically French vs Dutch 1628-36

 

Cheers,

[md1400cs]

Small update but:

 What have I learned (for me) to begin work on foremast ratlines, after having to remove the first six rows of the main, and starting over? (newbie at this)

 

Shroud ratlines.

 

1) Space-correctly, tighten and pre-glue each first shroud ratline knot (I happen to be R. handed so started with fore to aft). This “pre-locks” correct vertical       spacing for all rows up as I go along.

 

I was thinking of actually correctly tying the first and last ratlines - per row-but way toooo much work. And over the top minutia that would visually disappear. (see pic 1)

 

2) Next just give a gentle pull to each succeeding clove hitch as I thread the row

 

3) Don’t glue completed clove hitches on each row as I go up to the next row.

 

4) Don’t worry about the very last knot (aft side shroud) that will be revisited.

 

===============================

 

5) After all rows have been laced then fine tune adjust (vertically) all knots up and down the shrouds to properly space all rows so that they horizontally blend with each other and the platform above.

 

            Took me several “visits” to think that the results were acceptable.

 

6) Now fine-tune (if needed) clutch hitch tensions on each row.

 

7) Double check that rows are still evenly spaced

 

8) Glue clove hitches with a very tiny dab of G-S Hypo Cement.

 

7) Re-adjust and glue that last left-over aft knot on each row from before (4).

 

8) Then tiny dab of Flat Clear as needed to make G-S Hypo Cement totally disappear.

 

9) Clove hitches should be just a bit “firmer” for next mast

 

============================

 

What have I learned for next build (though it will be a cross-section only mainmasts to worry about). Nice change of venue – looking forward to it.

 

Platform/top

 

Well, this was due to my inexperience in lack of understanding/knowledge of how, in the aggregate, the proper locations of the futtock plates and dead-eyes can lead to problems later with regard to mast, yards and shroud spacing.

 

Pics explain my dilemma. I will have to remove the forward deadeyes and re-fit them toward the stern. This will need to be done for the lower foremast as well Yikes!!., and with the upper masts –

 

Oh no! still learning -TOO late for those, however minor – it’s still not right; spars will become crowded with shrouds. Grrr (lot’s of grrrs I know J)

 

Mates - thanks so much for your continued interest in this build. I hope that my mistakes will be helpful to some other members.

 

Cheers,

 

[baskerbosse]

Hi Michael,

 

I believe I heard from Fred Hocker that Vasa strangely enough had clove hitches on the last shrouds as well, so I would call it a win on the 1) -decision..

:-)

 

Cheers,

Peter 

[md1400cs]

Hi Mates,

 

Update in same area of work. This side took a long time. As you all know it is very repetitive work; now onto the starboard side.

Though I am wanting to go “somewhere else “next. Then realized that the next work bit will be the yards (and the sewing class for the sails) –so more ratlines in my future indeed.

 

Nonetheless I feel that I have actually really moved forward (for me) though I will never be able to keep up with some “Ferrari Speed” builders here at MSW.

Mates – thanks for kindly still following along.

 

Photos speak for themselves (what did I learn?) so I won’t add redundant thoughts here J

 

PS: Thinking of speed my son treated me to this experience last week; BMW Performance Driving School.

 

Sharing 2 pics. Just shy of 130 mph on the long straightaway parts of the track in a “bells and whistles” equipped M3…

OK back to the 16^th Century Ha ha…

 

As always, Cheers mates

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

you know more knots than I do    very nice rigging Michael!