Queen Anne Style Royal Barge by Chuck - FINISHED - Syren Ship Model Company - 1:24

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Chuck,

 

looks like a really nice side project. I am looking forward and hope that you offer the model also in different part kits as you do for the Cheerful.

[Jack12477]

Nice looking model Chuck. Looking forward to its debut.

[Chuck]

Thank you guys.

 

Yes an intermediate builder can do this.  Those are the folks this project is directed towards.  As far as making the kit in parts.....I am torn.  It will either be a complete kit....OR

 

A complete kit sold in three installments.  

 

I am trying to work all that out as the prototype gets underway.  I am waiting on planking material as we speak.   Once it arrives it will get into high gear.

 

Chuck

[Redshirt]

Do you plan to sell the plans for this lovely little boat?

[Chuck]

Nope.   Just the kit.   Either in installments or as one complete unit. 

 

The plans will of course be in the first installment along with the frames, keel parts and build-board.

 

Chuck

[dvm27]

Does your software and laser cutting capacity enable you to offer it in other scales, such as 1/4"?

[Chuck]

Yes....but not as easy as just clicking a button.  Which most would assume.   After resizing the templates in the drafting software  (the easy part)....the laser settings will then have to be adjusted to reflect the proper speed and power settings for the smaller thickness in wood.   Depending on the parts,  they also may need some tweaking to adjust for the larger kerf size in relation to the smaller part size (ie the carved decorations).  Plus the five or six more elaborate carvings are being done as resin castings.  I cant expect folks to scratch carve those so masters will need to be made for those.   So there are plenty of hours of work needed to do it correctly for the best results.  But once its done the first time,   its done and all parts can easily be run as quickly as the 1/2" scale versions.  But its still weeks of work.

 

After all that there are other considerations.  This design concept works well for 1/2" scale.   BUT

 

Lets consider that the frames are 1/16" thick at this scale.  Reducing them to 1/4" scale means using 1/32" thick stock.  Or at a minimum,  going with 3/64" for strength.  I think using 1/32" thick frames for this design construction method would not work as the frames would be much to fragile.  So once you start altering those thicknesses...it means more alterations for the parts templates and it just snowballs from there.  To simply reduce everything by 50% without thinking it through would be a disaster.

 

I know some other folks think its easily done and have talked about it in other threads.  In my opinion its not as simple and a bit fantasy actually.  Depending on the subject of course.  Decisions would need to be made that may reduce its historical accuracy for MFG purposes or depending on the scale,  a entirely different construction concept might be a better way to go.    Lots to consider.   I hate to be the fantasy killer to all those folks discussing the possibilities of kit production in that other topic.   But its a little naive in my opinion.  For most subjects anyway.

[bear]

Chuck

 

As for the laser cut parts for the carvings,will there be extra's included for those who have mistakes when shaping them? Or will you offer to sell set's of the laser cut parts that need to be carved?

 

I know that I would want at least an extra set so that I can use one to learn how to work the shapes out,and another for the finished model.

 

Please put me on a list for this kit.

 

Happy Customer from Troutdale,Oregon

Keith

[Chuck]

Yes...no worries.   There will be plenty of extras as most of you know I try to include for parts like this.  In addition,  after I complete my own carvings,  I will cast them and offer a complete resin package as an aftermarket kit option.  This is for the folks who wouldnt want to even try it...BUT I WOULD STRONGLY ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO AT LEAST TRY IT.   You might just surprise yourself. 

[bear]

God Bless you Chuck!

 

You know how to make my day. I am looking forward to building this kit after I finish up my Mary Rose. It will be great to be able to purchase the resin castings and then be able to carve and learn also.

 

This barge will fit in nice next to my Gunboat Philadelphia that's also in 1/24th scale. And my first build to use all of your rope and blocks in it's building.

 

Keith

[Chuck]

I have no timeline.  I dont like to rush my projects as you guys probably noticed.   So whenever it gets done it gets done.  I wish I could give you a better answer but its just the way I work.  I am a very slow builder and designer.

 

No installments will be released this time until after the entire model is completed.  It shouldnt take long!!!  LOL   Famous last words right?

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

Just found this thread. Very interesting projects(barges). They will make nice kits or scratch builds if you eventually offer the plans alone.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Chuck,

 

if you offer the kit in 1/32 (3/8'') I'll take this, if not I will take the model in 1/24 (1/2''). I love the design. I hope that you will offer the kit in pear (which is more common in Europe) or box.

[Chuck]

Thanks

 

I wont be changing the scale because too much is involved.  But I will be making some in boxwood or pear as a custom order.   Having said that,  these will be much more $ of course.  I will figure out the costs when the project is completed.

[Chuck]

Because much is being discussed about how kits and other projects are produced,  I thought I would continue to share bits about my philosophy as I develop these two new kits.  As I mentioned in one of those other topics,  It is an absolute must to have a good set of plans and a good set of instructions.  Not everyone is at the same level of skill.  What might be second nature for some is not so clear to others.  There are so many details and build sequences that Cad Drawings and pans can NOT convey effectively on their own.

 

I am not talking about writing a book....nothing like a 300 page thing that so many desire....for heaven's sake....buy a book on the subject in addition to the kit.

 

Instead,  just enough to guide folks along but obviously more than the usual kit instructions we have all grown to hate so much.

 

As the first installment gets off the ground for this kit,  I write the instructions for it.  Then I pass them along to the individual building the prototype with me.  If this person has a hard time following what I have written and cant build the model,  then I failed.   But luckily I get tons of feedback from the prototype builder telling me what he would need or what he didnt understand. Or If I should make wording changes or add additional pictures or drawings to make it clearer.  It is priceless to have this feedback....I think its a huge disservice to just produce the project and release it without this feedback.  It doesnt cost anything because the folks I use are my dear friends and they actually get to build a model for free.  They probably would have bought it afterwards anyway...so why not be the first and build it alongside me. 

 

Not only do they tell me if the pieces dont fit properly....but the feedback on the instructions and plans will ultimately help all of the people building it too.

 

Here is a look at the level of detail I am talking about....I cant write a book...because you would have to pay me the price of an actual book.   I cant write 50 pages on the history of Barges....these are just instructions,  but very thorough instructions none-the-less.   Hopefully anyway!!!    PDF below...unedited and before getting any feedback.   They will certainly change before the project is released.

Shallop one.pdf

[AnobiumPunctatum]

That's a great instruction as you did on your other curses. I hope that other kit producers read this, so they know how a good instruction for a model should look

[Stuntflyer]

I think it would be fair to say that Chuck is doing more than just simply writing instructions. He is giving us insights regarding his approach to model building. He is guiding us into thinking differently about the way in which we might build our models. In doing so, he takes his instructions to a higher level which benefits all of us seeking to be better modelers.

 

Mike

[Chuck]

Thank you for saying....    

[dvm27]

Just read through your instructions Chuck. I must say they are really well written! Along with that you have included enough reference marks on the scantlings to make it an almost fool-proof build. If I may just make one recommendation to the builders that was passed from David Antscherl to me (and I'm sure you already do this) is to have a small cup with water and a few sacrificial brushes available at all times. Clean every glued joint with the brush and water (whether visible or not) right after clamping or applying pressure. It is very difficult to remove glue stains after setting. You will have a much cleaner model as a result.

 

Just curious - is there any difference in joint strength when gluing charred pieces vs. scraped clean joint surfaces?

[Chuck]

Thanks Greg.

 

It depends.   It depends if its a slotted joint or just two pieces butt against each other.  If one piece is being inserted into a notch or a slot then it doesnt really matter much and the laser char wont interfere with the joint much.  But when there is no such interlocking mechanism then yes,  I do like to clear away the laser char.  There is one other exception....when the piece that needs to be cleared of laser char is too fragile or its fit was made precise while designing it.  Then I dont risk it.  Maybe a cursory pass with some fine sandpaper.  But its shape and fragility must be taken under consideration.

[Chuck]

Greg.....One more thing.    That is a very good point about working with Tite-Bond or Yellow glue.  Its something I do instinctively without any thought.    I too, keep a cup of water around at all times with a disposable brush.   I use it to clear any of the glue that squeezes out between the joints before it dries.  Its little things like that I always forget to include in the manual.....rest assured I will add that to the first installment right away.  Its the only way I can keep my joinery clean and crisp.  Thanks for the reminder. 

[Canute]

Works lots better than swiping your finger through the glue ooze. You could use a micro-brush, also known as a dental swab in that cup of water.

[Stuntflyer]

There is one other exception....when the piece that needs to be cleared of laser char is too fragile or its fit was made precise while designing it.  Then I dont risk it.  Maybe a cursory pass with some fine sandpaper.  But its shape and fragility must be taken under consideration.

FWIW, I have found that lightly scraping the char edge with a #11 blade just enough to lighten the char (remove the loose stuff only) leaving some of it there on the edge, works nicely.

 

Mike

[Chuck]

Just a quick update on the Queen Anne Style Barge.

 

Note that the planking on a Barge of this period was less than 1" thick.  That is very thin stuff.  I am using 1/32" Cherry to laser cut the planking.  Its actually thicker than it should be at this scale but a very nice thickness to work with.

 

After making many blocks today,  I decided to try and fit my first plank on the model.  The planks will be pre-spiled.  In addition, a laser etched reference line will be on the clinker strakes.   There are only three strakes on the barge like the contemporary models I showed.  Only the bottom two planks are lapstrake or clinker.  This will be a great introduction to this type of planking.  

 

You will bevel the strake from the reference line to the edge in preparation for the plank above it(or as the model is upside down, below it).  It will be beveled ahead of time after you gently remove the laser char from its edges.  Then you bend the plank just a bit as shown.  Using an emery board works great for this.

 

 

It fits really good and no forcing is needed to put it in position.  Just a little glue on each frame....working two or three at a time from the bow towards the stern.  The forward end of the strake is beveled to sit nicely against the stem and rabbet.  I will put the sister plank on the other side and then the two aft sections of this same strake.  That will really make the model solid and safe.  So I want to get this done ASAP.  The last two strakes will follow shortly after.

 

 

Also examine this image of a similar barge.  The reason why I chose cherry was also for its color.   The contemporary model below is basically the same color and I am very pleased with the cherry so far.  The barge below also has only two strakes from the sheer.  I will be going with three so you can tell its clinker planked.  But I wont be adding the garboard.  There were many different variations on contemporary examples.

 

 

I will be going with three strakes like this barge below.

 

 

Chuck

[Don9of11]

Everything looks good as usual Chuck and I like how you've laid out your monograph. The color photos are nice and clear and the content well thought out. I might have asked you this before,  are you doing your own laser cutting these days?  

[Chuck]

Thanks

 

Yes I have been doing my own laser cutting for about 1 1/2 years now.  I couldnt possibly make the parts in the amounts needed without having my own laser cutter.  Its a fun machine to have in the shop.

 

Chuck

[druxey]

Your choice, of course; but in the lower picture the boat hull looks a bit naked without its garboard strake!

[Chuck]

That would be easy enough to add in the kit.....what I can do is finish off three top strakes and take some photos,  then add the garboard and take more.   It can be an option for folks.  They can also just add the garboard and two strakes along the sheer like the one conteporary model.  This way,  everyone can choose which they prefer.  

 

Chuck

[Engelmann]

Hi Chuck,

 

Stunning model!!

 

I think the model would also be less prone to warp with the garboards fitted. If you look at the contemporary model without the garboards you can see that the keel is pulled into a slight curve by the tension of the top planking. On the other hand, the fact that you planking is pre-spilled might reduce the tension enough for it not to matter

 

Cheers

Deon

[Chuck]

With this barge project I will be taking my time and expanding the instructions with regard to the planking.  I will attempt to do a plank-by-plank description.  There are only three strakes or 7 planks on each side and each of them has their specific nuances. 

 

Here is just a preview and few images showing a some of those nuances I will be describing in detail.

 

After sanding the first plank so it has the bevel,  you will need to bend it.  The edgewise spiled shape has been determined for you already....

 

BUT,  you must still bend it to conform to the bow shape.  I recommend a test fit before any bending starts.  The straight plank below shows how it sits in position after only resting it against the frames. No bending or shaping and instead just looking and examining as it rests against the frames.  You will notice that not much bending is actually needed .  Its relatively straight across the first two frames and then the bending starts.  BUT...also notice how the end of the plank doesnt fit or conform to the angle of the rabbet.   The bottom of the plank end (or top since its upside down) is flared out.  You can see the how the first inch of the plank needs not only a slight bend but also a slight twist.

 

 

Knowing this ahead of time lets me take the plank to my bending station with advanced knowledge of what I need to accomplish. Apply heat with a hair dryer.  You have seen me do this before.   No water at all.  Just heat.  I bend the plank for the bow bow slightly...BUT I also twist it as the test showed in the previous photo.  I am bending more to compensate for spring back.  You want to shape the plank so you can position it on the model so it fits without any stress needed to position it.  No force bending will be needed.   If after you bend it, it doesnt quite fit right....take it back to your bending station and reshape it.....re-bend it or re-twist it until it lies against the frames without any stresses....

 

 

 

This is how the plank fits afterwards.

 

 

The second plank at the stern will also need some special attention.   After sanding the bevel into it to accept the clinker plank that will be added on top,   the plank will need to be bent to fit the stern's shape...The spiled shape or edge-wise-bend has been pre-determined for you.  So lets bend it to fit around the stern.  It may sound counter-intuitive, but you will actually bend the end of this plank outward and opposite to what you might have thought.  See below.

 

 

The reason why.... is because the bend/shape at the stern isnt that severe. You dont really need to bend it to get the planks to sit against the frames nicely.   BUT....the last inch where the plank bends severely to form that graceful entry into the flying transom is another story.  As the plank runs off the transom it is left longer where this bend is severe.   You could probably force the flying transom into position without re-shaping, but the planks wont have that pleasant bend shown above on the plan.  They would be straight and weird looking.   

 

So to create this bend easily to match the plans,  bend the plank end in the opposite direction so after it is glued against the frames, the nice curve into the flying transom is established as it runs off the end.   I hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

This level of detail will be explained for each and every plank.   The next plank at the bow needs some prep work.   Make sure the rabbet is clear from glue so the next plank can be slipped in nicely.  The clinker plank will be beveled only on the end this time.  This is because where the plank enters the rabbet it is not clinkered at all.  It will be flush and gradually become clinkered.  But you need a clean rabbet for this and so you can clean it out as I did below.

 

 

Then bevel the first 3/4" of the next plank.  This is the inboard side of the plank this time.  It is marked with a laser etched line.   The degree of the bevel gradually becomes less and less pronounced as it ravels back from the rabbet.  Its only a short bevel.

 

 

 

Then test it in position after completing the bending and twisting needed to shape the plank.  Its great to set up a bending station!!!.   Here is a test before it is glued into position.  No forcing at all....it fits really well.

 

 

And finally glue that plank in position after you are satisfied.  These planks are 1/32" inch thick.

 

So hopefully I will be explaining each plank in enough detail that it wont be a drastic learning curve for everyone......At least the learning curve wont be as steep, but this is my approach to kit making for the purpose of teaching not just assembly.  Or at least my best feeble attempt at it.  There will be of course more detail in the instructions but for this post you can get the idea