Doc Watson Posted February 17, 2023 #1 Posted February 17, 2023 'On the shoulders of giants...' I have to say that the build logs here for HMS Fly/Pegasus have been an inspiration to me on how to navigate my first true 'scale' ship. Particular thanks go to Blue Ensign for posting his Pegasus build... TWICE... after the great crash. I received the kit a few weeks ago but was torn between my 'one at a time' philosophy of boats under construction. That has now changed and I'm going to make a slow start (and probably build) of this excellent kit. In December 2022 I started building HMS Golden star and am using it to resurrect some woodworking skills not used since building Kiel-Kraft balsa spitfires, Fokker triplanes and Stukas back when my age was a single digit (I'm now over halfway to 3 digits!). The Golden Star is progressing but am a little 'hung up' on the fact that its not a true scale model of any particular ship, but as a starter in this hobby it serves its purpose as an excellent training build. There is yet another build on the go of a scratch built HMS Victory but I needed to get retrained hence the current builds. The current plan (and this may and probably will change) is to build it with full cabins at the rear (again thanks Blue Ensign), leave the hull planked (in Boxwood) unpainted and not coppered. Guns and carriages will be changed to Syren, boat kits will be added and the thought of dinner by candlelight in the Captains cabin is very tempting (flickering LED lights). So after breaking etiquette by not showing the 'opening the box' series of photos in my Star build here they are... The box And inside.... Lots of plans which I haven't looked at yet... Brass photoetch....nice.... (cant be as hard to assemble as a 1/24 scale Martin Baker ejection seat in PE can it?) Hours of fun here.... I've got wood.... and finally the 4 MDF sheets. I think I will spend the evening dry fitting the hull and building the cradle, although a 'scale' slipway will be created for display purposes (which I probably wont need for a few years!). Avast me hearties!!!!!!!! rcmdrvr, ccoyle, whitejamest and 5 others 8 Quote
ccoyle Posted February 17, 2023 #2 Posted February 17, 2023 Welcome to the Fly/Pegasus family! Quote Chris Coyle Greer, South Carolina When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. - Tuco Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix, DS Børøysund
Knocklouder Posted February 17, 2023 #3 Posted February 17, 2023 Good Luck on your journey, I booked mark your page so I can follow along. Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models
Oldsalt1950 Posted February 17, 2023 #4 Posted February 17, 2023 Think I'll pull up a chair. Jim Quote Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy!
Doc Watson Posted February 18, 2023 Author #5 Posted February 18, 2023 No issues cutting the MDF parts out and assembled it all dry..... note the final frame (part 13) is not fitted yet. Also I have not sanded any of the frames yet just cut them out and fitted them. I'm gunna need a bigger boat...I mean cutting mat! Goes together really well, nice tight fit. Things to do now are:- Mark off the frames on the keel piece (part 14) ready for drawing the bearding line. Mark the lower deck height on the rear of the keel piece for removal of the extra height to make way for the cabin. Disassemble. Cut the keel piece around the rear cabin. Mark and cut the rabbet on the keel piece. Sand the stern to half thickness. Reassemble. I'm not going to 'rough' sand the frames as recommended as I will be blocking the hull up to the MDF lower deck and have found that they are a great visual aid when sanding to the desired shape due to the darker laser cut edges of the frames. I will also resist fitting the walnut keel, sternpost and stem until after the frames and the blocking are complete to avoid any scratching, scraping or sanding of them. A new rear frame (part 13) will be cut from walnut sheet as will the frame preceding it (part 12) to accommodate the cabin area. The final assembly and gluing of the frame structure will also have to wait for a decision on the lighting as routing the wires will be a huge pain in the sternpost! So to my first (of many I'm sure) question... What type of lighting would have been used not only in the cabin but also the lower deck? Would something like this have been used? I think that's enough excitement for tonight. Avast me hearties!!!!!!!! BobG, dunnock, Prowler901 and 1 other 4 Quote
Oldsalt1950 Posted February 18, 2023 #6 Posted February 18, 2023 A lantern of that type or something similar would have been used. Jim Quote Current Build: Fair American - Model Shipways Awaiting Parts - Rattlesnake On the Shelf - English Pinnace 18Th Century Longboat I stand firmly against piracy!
allanyed Posted February 18, 2023 #7 Posted February 18, 2023 Depends. For the magazines there were light rooms that sealed off the actual light source from the magazine. For the Fly 1776 you can see one on the internal profile drawing. https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-84458 For the gundecks the tin lantern from the Victory may help. https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2022/treasures-2/a-painted-tin-and-horn-lantern-from-the-gun-decks It looks a lot like the one in the photo you posted. Hope this helps Allan Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
Doc Watson Posted February 18, 2023 Author #8 Posted February 18, 2023 Allanyed, thanks for the information I assume the magazine light room is this... And a quick look at HMS Victorys gun decks also shows the location of the lights. Food for thought... Avast me hearties!!!!!!!! Knocklouder 1 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 19, 2023 Author #9 Posted February 19, 2023 SpyGlass, I have the 2 piece ply deck and haven't closely looked at the castings yet. I trial fitted all the decks and they fit very well with only a little 'tightness' where the two pieces meet around the stern. Easily remedied with light sanding of the frame notches. So I marked the keel with all bulkhead positions and disassembled. I then took my old (we are talking 1960's) drawing set and used a compass to mark 1.5mm above the keel for the rabbet line. Notice the compass pin is extended to allow it to drag along the keel. The bearding line was created with a piece of tracing paper placed over the stern and a line drawn followed by cutting of the tracing paper. The bearding line can then be traced around (the tracing paper!) on both sides ensuring accuracy. Note the 1.5mm notch for the rabbet at the bottom. And finally the stern keel has marked for removal the area which would protrude into the captains cabin. Next I will ponder a new frame 12. Where did I put me Walnuts? Avast me hearties! BobG, Knocklouder and KARAVOKIRIS 3 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 19, 2023 Author #10 Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) I have some 6mm walnut sheet which will be used to fashion a new frame 12. I would have preferred to have the grain running vertically but the sheet isn't wide enough so I will be leaving a 5mm strip where the frame meets the keel piece. This will be sanded back once the frame is glued to the keel and blocking added between frames to (hopefully) prevent any breaks Once the outline is cut out I will mark the area inside the frame to be removed. To accommodate the extra 1mm width of the walnut a small amount of the keel slot will be widened, shown by the red circle. Now where did I put that micro saw...... Avast me hearties! Edited February 19, 2023 by Doc Watson KARAVOKIRIS, dunnock and Knocklouder 3 Quote
Landlubber Mike Posted February 19, 2023 #11 Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, SpyGlass said: I see Fly now seems to have MDF frames - caution !!! Especially if you are doing mods - it doesnt have the strength of ply though not so prone to warp The MDF used in these kits is very hard - much harder than plywood. At least that was my experience with my Pegasus kit. Edited February 19, 2023 by Landlubber Mike Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
rcmdrvr Posted February 19, 2023 #12 Posted February 19, 2023 Will MDF make it more difficult to sand/shape the frames to the proper shape before planking. Would a good sanding board with 80 to so grit sandpaper (and a lot of arm work and patience) do the job? Quote Current Build: HMS Dreadnought - PLASTIC - Waterline Completed Builds: USS Cairo by BlueJacket; Nave Egizia by Amati; Harriet Lane by Model Shipways
chris watton Posted February 19, 2023 #13 Posted February 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, rcmdrvr said: Will MDF make it more difficult to sand/shape the frames to the proper shape before planking. Would a good sanding board with 80 to so grit sandpaper (and a lot of arm work and patience) do the job? It is much easier compared to quality ply as the density is consistent. Mr Whippy 1 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook
Doc Watson Posted February 19, 2023 Author #14 Posted February 19, 2023 I'm finding out that walnut is as tough as... nuts.... I wish I has a scroll saw, but micro saw and Perma-Grit 'fine' sanding collection will see me through for the moment. The sawdust will be saved to make walnut filler if and when required, good job to as I'm making loads of it. I must also say (if I may) that the fine sanding tools are a joy to use and come in a selection of shapes. I will have to be careful when sanding bevels as the walnut is much harder than the MDF (and of course balsa) but with the MDF being 5mm thick it is very strong. I could have used the MDF frame 12 of course but just love the smell of cut walnut! Avast me hearties! KARAVOKIRIS, BobG and ccoyle 3 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 20, 2023 Author #15 Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) After a few hours... getting there... Once the keel slot is cut to the correct size I will start modifying the MDF keel piece and plan the cutting of the 'inside' of frame 12. Walnut is hard and the only power tool available in my workshop is the Mk I human body. By workshop I mean an A3 420mm x 270mm cutting mat with a rule that all tools/parts must only be on the mat! LED lights ordered and arriving in a few days. 10 of each for testing. hope there small enough!!!!! both 'warm white' in colour and I will control them with this.... Its an Arduino 'nano' clone which can be programmed to supply voltage to the LED's at a frequency of about 500Hz. I will start designing an LED lantern first, should be fun simulating the flicker of a candle. Edit: Quick google later and a candles frequency is anywhere between 5 and 12 Hz... Avast me hearties! Edited February 20, 2023 by Doc Watson KARAVOKIRIS, BobG, allanyed and 3 others 6 Quote
allanyed Posted February 21, 2023 #16 Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/17/2023 at 10:36 PM, Doc Watson said: I assume the magazine light room is this... You are correct. Larger ships had more than one filling room, and each would have a light room with one or two lanterns. Lavery shows a lot of details on these areas in Part VII of The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War Allan Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
DavidG Posted February 21, 2023 #17 Posted February 21, 2023 good luck for your build! would you mind to share, where did you source the LEDs on your second picture (the ones with the transparent covers, not the SMDs)? thank you Quote Past builds: Prins Willem, Amati Coca Current Build: Occre Diana
Doc Watson Posted February 21, 2023 Author #18 Posted February 21, 2023 allenyed, again thanks for the information but as its so low in the ship I wont be lighting (or modelling!) below the MDF 'deck'. DavidG, got them here... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08ZH98BRJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details Will have them tomorrow and will test them. Finally got the slot for the keel filed to size. I used a piece of the 'waste' MDF as a guide and PVA'ed some 600 grit paper to one edge to get the end of the notch square. Now the slot is done I can clamp and file to final shape. Avast me hearties! DavidG, dunnock, KARAVOKIRIS and 1 other 4 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 22, 2023 Author #19 Posted February 22, 2023 Finally..... Also marked 4mm inside lines for removal but a dry fit on the keel is required first. I also need to chamfer the edges and will delay removal of the inner section until I know how much bevel is required. Avast me hearties! KARAVOKIRIS and CiscoH 2 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 22, 2023 Author #20 Posted February 22, 2023 SpyGlass, the MDF frame 12 has the deck height marked on it, I haven't marked it on the walnut part yet and will probably do it with the frames and deck assembled. After all that cutting I must have gotten a little carried away. Avast me hearties! Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 22, 2023 Author #21 Posted February 22, 2023 Cut the keel around the captains cabin and reassembled to mark the deck level on frame 12. Frame 13 is a little wonky! not a sniff of glue anywhere! And ready to mark the deck line on walnut frame 12... I have left the cut MDF slightly proud of the deck to be faired later after gluing the frame assembly together. And below is the cut keel with 6mm width for frame 12 and a 'step' was left for location of frame 13. I now need to study plans and decide how to extend the rear of the hull to the transom, a new walnut frame 13 is calling from across the waves. Avast me hearties! KARAVOKIRIS 1 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 23, 2023 Author #22 Posted February 23, 2023 Frame 13 has 4 plywood pieces which form the transom area. Parts 23 and 24 look very similar so marked them... ...and dry fit on frame 13. Still thinking about how to open up the cabin area here. Avast me hearties! KARAVOKIRIS, ccoyle and Prowler901 3 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 24, 2023 Author #23 Posted February 24, 2023 Thanks SpyGlass, not only do the outer pieces need to be inline with the deck which curves on top and the angle of the deck viewed from above but the rear also has a curve. I'm going to make 6 transom frames as shown below. (plans from HMS Bounty) each frame will be 3mm walnut (what else would it be!) and will sit between the window frames of the transom. Not sure about the horizontal framing yet. Avast me hearties! Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 25, 2023 Author #24 Posted February 25, 2023 The transom assembly from the kit...the gap is to be planked. I notice that Blue Ensigns window was walnut sheet. I decided to dry fit the decks and the beams, remembering to widen the deck slots for frame 12. Decks fit very well. Avast me hearties! BobG, The Gimps Chimp, ccoyle and 6 others 9 Quote
Doc Watson Posted February 28, 2023 Author #25 Posted February 28, 2023 The LED lights have arrived and have been tested!!! They are small enough (I think) to use as candle lights and a quick program using an Arduino proved the flickering effect, the light is a little to 'white' but am experimenting with resistors and 'filters' (by filters I mean a light wash of oil paint on the LED) to soften the colour. The wire is 0.1mm and insulated with a coat of something (clear lacquer or plastic?) which has to be scraped off with fine sandpaper. Should be no problem replicating a lantern and the wires are 20cm long to allow each light to be located and the wires fed into the lower hull where they can be then soldered to 'more substantial' wire which will then be passed through the keel into a display 'box' holding the Arduino and batteries to run it. I also had a horrible idea of adding a real time clock, mp3 player module and speakers in the shallow box display base and the Arduino would use the clock to ring out the bells every 30 minutes, a sort of maritime clock. 8 bells!!!!! end of watch! Avast me hearties! Prowler901, The Gimps Chimp and whitejamest 2 1 Quote
Prowler901 Posted March 1, 2023 #26 Posted March 1, 2023 Love the clock idea! You should definitely do that.🙂 Todd Quote
Doc Watson Posted March 2, 2023 Author #27 Posted March 2, 2023 LED light inside the ink tube of a bic pen..... Lantern03.mp4 Avast me hearties! Prowler901 1 Quote
Doc Watson Posted March 2, 2023 Author #28 Posted March 2, 2023 Effect in the ship.... I think it looks convincing.... Lantern01.mp4 Avast me hearties! The Gimps Chimp, Ghost029 and Prowler901 3 Quote
Doc Watson Posted March 11, 2023 Author #29 Posted March 11, 2023 The dockyard foreman caught a workman trying to steal some grog and put him in jankers for a week, either that or someone has had a bout of flu!?!?!. Just about recovered and some progress with the ships lanterns which should be done by next week and I finally have a plan for the rear of the boat.... cutting wood as we speak. Avast me hearties! Mr Whippy, ESF, Pitan and 3 others 6 Quote
ausierob Posted March 14 #30 Posted March 14 On 3/1/2023 at 5:25 AM, Doc Watson said: The LED lights have arrived and have been tested!!! They are small enough (I think) to use as candle lights and a quick program using an Arduino proved the flickering effect, the light is a little to 'white' but am experimenting with resistors and 'filters' (by filters I mean a light wash of oil paint on the LED) to soften the colour. The wire is 0.1mm and insulated with a coat of something (clear lacquer or plastic?) which has to be scraped off with fine sandpaper. Should be no problem replicating a lantern and the wires are 20cm long to allow each light to be located and the wires fed into the lower hull where they can be then soldered to 'more substantial' wire which will then be passed through the keel into a display 'box' holding the Arduino and batteries to run it. I also had a horrible idea of adding a real time clock, mp3 player module and speakers in the shallow box display base and the Arduino would use the clock to ring out the bells every 30 minutes, a sort of maritime clock. 8 bells!!!!! end of watch! Avast me hearties! Nice Work! BTW, using a Nano for audio playback might be a bit challenging. Available memory is limited. If you just held a single "bell" clip and played it back as required (ie x 8 for 8 bells) would probably be ok. But if you want various audio clips "End of Watch", "All is well", etc. (which would be rather cool.) there may not be enough memory. Maybe think of using a Nano 33 these can have 1Mb of flash vs Nano @ 32Kb. Look at ESP32's these can have even more memory and are a very capable device. You'll need a real-time clock (RTC) module to keep (battery-backed) time. I've used these combinations on a few projects (not ships) and they work very reliably. Look forward to more progress on your build. Mr Whippy 1 Quote
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