Hello from Seattle - looking to buy a built ship

[wyapa]

Hello all! 

I've recently begun looking at model ships. I decided to buy a model ship as a reward for hitting a personal goal and finally the day has some. However, when I started researching, I learned the mass produced ships lack in accuracy and quality and have begun to look at different buying options. I don't have the time to build one from scratch but would love to buy a "decent" model ship and learn how to do some smaller items like rigging.

 

Is there a recommend guide to buying fully built kits or should I just add links to perspective ships and listen to different opinions?

[Keith Black]

 Welcome to MSW. Glad to have you aboard. 

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, wyapa said:

I don't have the time to build one from scratch but would love to buy a "decent" model ship

 

What constitutes a "decent" model ship is in the eyes of the beholder. There are plenty of websites that sell what they call "museum quality" models with a wide range of prices. One thing those models have in common, or at least most of them, is that MSW members would consider them to be el crappola grande. Such models are typically built on the cheap in SE Asia and bear only a passing resemblance to the ships they are supposed to depict.

 

Now, with that said, you can get your hands on what most of us would consider to be quite a decent model -- but it's gonna cost ya. True scale models that faithfully depict real ships can only be had by either stumbling across one in a consignment shop or estate sale, commissioning one from a skilled modeler, or purchasing one from a maritime art gallery. The first option requires luck -- the other two require cash or credit, and usually lots of it. If you click here, for example, you can browse the current inventory at American Marine Models. If you do have a peek, take note that no prices are listed. It's kind of like shopping on Rodeo Drive.

 

I hope you find what you're looking for!

[Jaager]

The mass produced objects are not actual ship models in any meaningful perspective.  They are decorator kitsch that happen to have a vague ship-like shape.

 

You have several options for an actual ship model.

 

Buy an actual scratch built ship model  one that is one off and unique- an expensive choice - you would still be getting a real deal as far as compensation per hour .

 

Buy a finished kit model -  in the real world - not on the site companies that sell finished product - a finished model seems to be worth what  was the cost of the original kit.  Often, this would be something sold by the family of a deceased model builder.  I am betting that if you bought a finished kit model from a website - the price would be far more than just the original kit, but if you tried to sell it -  all you would receive would be what the kit sells for.  It is not an investment. 

 

Buy a completed kit hull and mast and rig it yourself - something worked out 1:1  - but you would probably find that masting and rigging is much more involved than a cursory view suggests.

 

Go to Model Expo and buy the first kit in the Model Shipways Shipwright Series -  probably more rewarding and productive.

Edited February 17 by Jaager

[mtaylor]

Welcome to MSW.   Chris is very much spot on.  There are some specialty houses like the one he listed. but it's been awhile since I did any looking about for them.    It would take some Googling to find them.  

 

Good luck on your quest.

[Bob Cleek]

Nothing much to add to Chris Coyle's excellent answer. He's spot on. Here's a  better link to the American Marine Models website: American Marine Models – Ship Models, Custom Models, Restoration, Appraisals, Custom Display Units. Use the "current inventory" options on the home page. Don't delay, though. I've been informed by reliable authority that Mr. Michael Wall, the gallery owner, is soon to be, or has just retired, so the gallery may soon no longer be in business. I know of no other similar ship gallery in the country. 

 

You may also wish to inquire at the larger fine art auction houses, like Sotheby's, Christie's, and Bonham's and Butterfield's about their scheduled maritime fine art and models auctions. They generally will have one or two such specialty auctions each year with a published catalog available beforehand. I would not advise buying a model at auction without a knowledgeable expert available to advise you. 

 

Lastly, you might want to post a request in the "for sale" section of this forum stating the type of model you are interested in obtaining, specifying period, type, size (Important if you are going to display it n your home. A large model can chase you out of a room!), and how much you are interested in spending. I'm guessing there are more than a few well made, although not necessarily "investment grade" models, that forum members would be willing to sell for a fair price.

 

As for prices, if you are looking for a nice "decorator piece," your best bargain will be an assembled kit done by an experienced good modeler. The quality and workmanship can be every bit as good and the model every bit as attractive as a high-priced "one-off" "scratch built" model by an experienced modeler, or a really expensive model built by a well-known professional modeler. The difference in price between what will appear to be the same quality of model is simply the premium that "original art" always commands. It's similar to what an original painting by a famous artist will sell for and what a completed "paint by numbers" copy of the same work will bring. (Although a decent kit ship model demands a lot more experience, skill, and time, to complete than a "paint by numbers" painting does!) Also, if a model of a famous ship strikes your fancy as a decorator piece, well and good, however, kit models are one of a many, sometimes hundreds, of copies and not good candidates for investment. An original, one-off, model will command a far higher price and especially so if done by a famous modeler, than another model of a ship that's been modeled thousands of times before.  

 

Finally, a word of advice: Any quality model that you pay fair money for must be in a case! No model which is displayed without a case is long for this world. Even absent an attack from the family cat or "the cleaning lady," (common hazards,) just the exposure to dust and air pollution will degrade a model in a fairly short period of time. 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Bob Cleek

[DBorgens]

Wyapa,

Welcome to MSW. You’re asking the right question. A good place to start is here http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-plans-and-research.php

 

A common starter is Model Shipways Bluenose. It is a good starter with many build logs on this site.

 

Dave B

[Nirvana]

Wyapa, just an hour and a half drive south along I-5 corridor there another Washingtonian Welcoming you to MSW.

Start simple, if you look at BlueJacket Inc's website you will find some solid hull kits to work with.

That way you can only have to shape the hull and get going with details.
Many kits involve planking a skeleton frame. Some have issues with that some don't.
Start small and finish what you started before settling on another kit.

[catopower]

I don't know where some people are coming up with ridiculous ideas of the value of kit built ship models. If they're well done, then they have value. The idea that they're worth so little is total BS. It all depends on the modeler and their skill, and attention to detail, and scale. If that's not the case, then many of us shouldn't even be here, myself included...

 

 

 

 

 

[ferretmary1]

Hi Wyapa,

 

Welcome to MSW!

The value of a model is usually determined by the quality of the build (accuracy and materials used) and who built it.  How many are available can also raise or lower the price. 

 

We have a list on our NRG website of model dealers that you can check by going to this link: https://thenrg.org/resource/directory  Scroll down the left column until you see Model Dealers and Appraisers and click on that.

    

That link will also take you to a list of professional model builders (look in the left hand column again and scroll down until you see Professional Model Builders).  Click on each name to find their location and area of expertise.  Some model ship builders only build sailing ships, while others might only build paddle boats and others yet might build a wide range of models.  Raven Arts is in Seabeck, WA and they build a variety of ship models.  Here is their information: 

http://www.RavenArts.com

Seabeck WA
United States

Phone: 360-830-9222
Fax: 360-830-9620
Email: info@ravenarts.com

 

They are pricey, but they have very high quality models.

 

If you are buying on a budget and not necessarily looking for an investment piece, you can try contacting some of the model clubs we have listed: https://thenrg.org/resource/clubs  to see if any of their members have models to sell.  There are several clubs in Washington.  You will probably want to stay away from R/C clubs (radio control models) since they are not usually built for display purposes.

 

One last tip - Be sure to have a case built for your model.  Dust and grime are the worst enemies of a model, closely followed by cats and little kids.  😉

[GrandpaPhil]

Welcome!

 

I do not usually sell my models so this is not for me but for those who may be interested in selling off a piece of their collection.

 

What sort of ship are you looking for and how large of a model?

 

Also, Bluejacket Shipcrafters, operated by @MrBlueJacket on this forum, will sell their models prebuilt.

Edited February 17 by GrandpaPhil

[allanyed]

20 hours ago, wyapa said:

I learned the mass produced ships lack in accuracy and quality

For wooden model kits you are correct for the most part as many have a varying degree of quality and accuracy, but there are a couple exceptions to this based on the results seen here at MSW in the member build logs.  You mention learning rigging skills which leads me to think you want to build a kit model yourself.  If you are indeed in the very beginning stages and want to build your own the best three model kits from which you can learn and present accurate builds are those designed by David Antscherl and available from Model Shipways.  If you want to tackle something more complex, the models from Chuck Passaro at Syren Ship Models are top shelf.   

Allan

 

Edited February 17 by allanyed

[ferretmary1]

The NRG is in the development stages of a rigging learning kit.  I'm not sure when it will be ready - sometime later this year.  This will be a learning tool for modelers to use before they tackle a complete model.  It is being developed by Toni Levine.  We'll keep everyone posted!

[wyapa]

I'm looking primarily for a Sovereign of the seas model. I'm willing to spend about 2-3k for a built model. With some research I was able to notice the quality difference between a gift shop model and a proper model as below.

 

 

 

I would lover to get some thoughts on the models below. My main goals are to 

- get a ship that doesn't have as many quality draw backs 

- Get the most bang for my buck

 

I'm willing to compromise on quality that's hard to spot. 

For ex -

- if the superglue was used inside the hull, I'm ok with that but if the ornaments are badly cut, I would want to avoid that

- some historical inaccuracy if it's a single exhaust port is different but not the wrong number of gun ports

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1602674472/sovereign-of-the-seas-1637-handcrafted?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=sovereign+of+the+seas&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&frs=1&cns=1&search_preloaded_img=1&organic_search_click=1

 

 

https://www.etsy.com/listing/275229430/sovereign-of-the-seas-1637-ship-model?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=sovereign+of+the+seas&ref=sr_gallery-1-2&pro=1&sca=1&organic_search_click=1

 

Edited February 18 by wyapa

[ferretmary1]

The Model Shipyard has excellent quality models.  The only drawback is that they are in South Africa, so I don't know how much the shipping charges would be.

[allanyed]

9 hours ago, wyapa said:

a proper model as below.

While the model is pretty, it does not come close to meeting your requirement of an accurate depiction.  But, if you like it and it will bring you pleasure, that is what matters, so go for it.

Allan

[ccoyle]

For the SoS, the proof of the pudding is in the stern ornamentation. All three of the images you shared have incorrect sterns. For comparison, check out the portrait of Peter Pett, SoS's architect. SoS is featured prominently in the painting.

 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-14422

[ferretmary1]

Wyapa - I hope we're not overwhelming you with our back and forth banter. 

 

Chris is there a better site or modeler that you would recommend for Wyapa to go to to find a more accurate model?

 

Mary

[ccoyle]

14 minutes ago, ferretmary1 said:

Wyapa - I hope we're not overwhelming you with our back and forth banter. 

 

Chris is there a better site or modeler that you would recommend for Wyapa to go to to find a more accurate model?

 

I'm not aware of any. If Wyapa would be happy with one of the three models he shared, I'd vote for the first one. I think that one looks the nicest of the three. I can't tell if it's in his price range, though, because one has to be a member of the Model Shipyard site in order to see prices.

[ferretmary1]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

one has to be a member of the Model Shipyard site in order to see prices.

I just looked - It's around 10 grand including shipping.

[Roger Pellett]

When it comes to ship models I am a traditionalist in that the basis for any worthwhile model is its hull lines.  In other words, does the shape of the model’s hull match that of the real ship being modeled?  That is the first thing that you should check out.  High quality decorations on a misshapen hull is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

 

Edited February 19 by Roger Pellett

[wyapa]

6 hours ago, ferretmary1 said:

Wyapa - I hope we're not overwhelming you with our back and forth banter. 

 

 

 

Not at all. I'm learning a lot by just being here. The community here is much more receptive to teaching new comers than other ones I've tried asking in.

 

3 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

When it comes to ship models I am a traditionalist in that the basis for any worthwhile model is its hull lines.  In other words, does the shape of the model’s hull match that of the real ship being modeled?  That is the first thing that you should check out.  High quality decorations on a misshapen hull is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

 

This makes sense. Is there a good way to assess that from pictures?

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, wyapa said:

This makes sense. Is there a good way to assess that from pictures?

Study close ups that show the quality of construction and details of accuracy.  For example there are a lot of models of complex ships such as the SoS that show the use of belaying pins which were not used until a hundred years after she was built, incorrect cannon shapes and sizes, out of scale and incorrect number of rudder hinges, incorrect dead eye shapes, and the list goes on.  Look at contemporary  plans and models of particular ships on the RMG Collections site and other museums.  Maybe pick a ship that has not been modeled hundreds of times so you have something a little different.   

 

For an accurate model of the SoS go to https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-66317  and compare to modern versions.  There are also contemporary drawings of her on their site as well.  A well done accurate model of SoS is going to be hard to find for less than $10,000 and even some of those in that price range may have things that are not correct.  Maybe consider a well made accurately depicted schooner or smaller naval craft if the price is an issue.

Allan

Edited February 19 by allanyed

[wyapa]

Hey everyone, wanted to provide a quick update. I did manage to find a ship I was happy enough with to purchase. I'm going to be doing some restoration to it and would love to know where to get started. 

From initial glances, I would need to fix the stern ornaments and replace some of the broken deadeyes. I'm mostly looking to make it look fairly clean/nice. I would also love thoughts on the ship as well :). Also thank you for all the information you've provided so far.

 

 

Edited March 6 by wyapa