Hello from the Scottish North Coast

[Scottish Guy]

Hello everyone,

 

I´m Michael and I live in a small fishing village on the Scottish North Coast. I was a sailor in younger age and still love and adore sailing boats / yachts. I found my first scale model (Revell HMS Victory 1/225) and got hooked up. I´m pretty new to scale models and therefore I have two different models in mind as the second one. There is a model of the Cutty Sark (1/96) from Revell and the 1/100 model of the HMS Victory from Heller. I want to do one or even both of them to increase my skills and then I would like to build from scratch my absolute dream yacht, a Hallberg Rassy 57. I know I need more skills for that. My wish would be to build the HR57 in a scale of 1/10 or 1/20, do you think that is too ambitious?

 

Therefore I ask you guys if the Revell or Heller models are any good to increase my skills and if those are good models at all? Also what is the exact difference between the HMS Victory and the HMS Victory Starter Kit from Heller? If I get it correct the Starter Kit includes glue and the base colours?

 

Thank you for your patience to read all this and I´m looking forward to your answers.

Kind regards,

 

Michael

[GrandpaPhil]

Welcome!

 

I built several of the Heller and Revell ships many years ago.

 

I enjoyed them immensely.

If you are looking at increasing your skills to scratch build a future model, I would recommend Chris Watton’s Vanguard models.

 

He has a most excellent line of wood beginners kits that would make great display pieces as well.

Edited March 28 by GrandpaPhil

[allanyed]

Welcome to MSW Michael!

Allan

[Baker]

Heller and certainly Revell have good kits.
You're going to learn a lot when you build them.

[Knocklouder]

[ccoyle]

Welcome aboard, Michael!

[BrochBoating]

Welcome to the Scottish part of MSW

 

Another hearty vote for Vanguard Models.

[Keith Black]

Michael, welcome to MSW. Glad to have you aboard. 

[ERS Rich]

Welcome to Model Ship World.  I don’t know about the difference between the 2 Victory kits…. Certainly these kits will help you increase your skill.  Consider a plastic kit has all the parts made, each part needs a little work, sanding, filing, to get a good fit.  So less time building.  Knowing how to apply a finish is crucial.  Plastic offers the opportunity to experiment with different paint to find out what works best for you - enamel? Acrylic.?  Brush or airbrush?

 

The Hallberg Rassy 57 yacht is certainly a good subject.  Recommend that you find a similar wooden Yacht ship kit before trying “scratch building”.  Consider jumping from plastic to wood modeling is a big step.  Because if it’s new to you, wood working takes some time to learn: understanding tools, sharpening, and wood characteristics.  However, you may already understand this!  If so you are ahead of the average bear.  
 

Another advantage of a kit is the instructions will lead you through the process, and some of the components will be prefabricated, saving time, and there are plenty of parts that require scratch building techniques.  
 

Agree that Vanguard is a great way to get started.
 

Good luck with your projects, 

 

-Rich
 

 

[Mike Dowling]

Welcome indeed to the growing Scottish contingent!

[Scottish Guy]

10 minutes ago, ERS Rich said:

The Hallberg Rassy 57 yacht is certainly a good subject.  Recommend that you find a similar wooden Yacht ship kit before trying “scratch building”.  Consider jumping from plastic to wood modeling is a big step.  Because if it’s new to you, wood working takes some time to learn: understanding tools, sharpening, and wood characteristics.  However, you may already understand this!  If so you are ahead of the average bear. 

 

Hi Rich, thank you for the advise but I`m not new to wood working. I have done quiet a lot with wood already. Build two RV´s, rebuild my sailboats (one was a complete wooden boat - 28ft.). I also have done some other wood working stuff except furniture building, I have been carving for almost 15 yrs now so the wood working is not the scary thing, it`s more the scaled down ship work. I think it`s a difference if working on a life size sail boat or a miniature of it.

I also have a former scale building history (25 yrs ago) with Star Trek Models like the U.S.S. Enterprise (NCC-1701, NCC-1701A, NCC-1701D), the U.S.S. Reliant NCC-1864, a Klingon Bird of Prey and some other models. Some of them equipped with lightning (no kits, all made myself) and I build some resin models like an Alien Queen, Predator and Freddy Kruger.

 

But I want to gain more skills since this was a long time ago, the only experience which I never really gave up is the wood working.

 

Michael

[Scottish Guy]

Thank you all guys, I really appreciate that kind and polite welcome.

 

Michael

[Mike Dowling]

You might have a look at Occre kits. I have done a lot of them. They are not too badly priced, their instructions are really good (except perhaps for rigging) and their wood quality generally fine.

[ERS Rich]

Fantastic!  Sounds like you are ready to go!  Same as full size woodworking, just smaller.

 

Cheers

[mtaylor]

[Jaager]

15 hours ago, Scottish Guy said:

Therefore I ask you guys if the Revell or Heller models are any good to increase my skills and if those are good models at all?

From my perspective - wood - scratch - POF - if your near term goal is to scratch build a yacht using wood, any time spent building a plastic model is time wasted.

There is very little overlap in the skills required.  The rigging on a large scale version of a modern yacht will have very little in common with the rigging of Nelson Era first rate man of war.   You may even choose to paint with wood rather than pigment in a binder, so the only other overlap is not relevant if you do.  The surface prep on plastic does not relate to that of wood either.

 

A small craft starter kit of a wooden model would be a more productive time investment.  It will probably want a couple more incrementally complex kits to get there.  Meanwhile - read.  Chapelle's Boatbuilding,  Books covering small craft and yacht construction, lofting. 

 

As a background alert,  I see plastic as being an absolutely terrible material to simulate wood.  It is close to essential as a material to simulate steel.  But, it requires really special skills to use it as a raw material and be shaped to match a one-off plan.

[Scottish Guy]

8 hours ago, Jaager said:

From my perspective - wood - scratch - POF - if your near term goal is to scratch build a yacht using wood, any time spent building a plastic model is time wasted.

Hello Jaager, I take it you advise me to start with smaller wooden sets instead of improving the "plastic" skills? A new approach to my route but I really will think about it. Also my last experience doing a plastic kit has been roughly 25 years ago. But I agree, working with wood is different to working with plastic materials, even different to resin.

 

Quote

The rigging on a large scale version of a modern yacht will have very little in common with the rigging of Nelson Era first rate man of war.

I agree completely on this one, you can´t even compare the rigging of a huge modern sail yacht (80tf and longer) with the rigging of any historical sailing ship. But you definitely can´t compare the rigging of a one mast sail yacht with a multi mast yacht or sailing ship from the 18th century or even older.

 

Quote

A small craft starter kit of a wooden model would be a more productive time investment.  It will probably want a couple more incrementally complex kits to get there.  Meanwhile - read.  Chapelle's Boatbuilding,  Books covering small craft and yacht construction, lofting. 

Do you have a kit in mind here or ist it just a general advice to get started with the wood models? I have some books for building a sail yacht and about hull building. I owned a sail yacht many years ago, then I bought a 24ft six years ago which needed some work done to become seaworthy again till we found some dramatic damages on the keels so I bought books on hull building and yacht building in general. I hope those might help as well in doing the wood working and for my goal, building the HR57.

I contacted Hallberg Rassy already and unfortunately Magnus Rassy explained to me that they don´t give away blueprints of their boats. Which I can understand somehow, even if I only want to rebuild a scale model of it but with the blueprints you could build your own Hallberg Rassy ^^. Therefore I have to go by the publicly posted and provided drawings and pictures.

 

Micha

[Rik Thistle]

Michael,

 

Welcome to MSW.

 

Vanguard Models do a couple of excellent Scottish fishing vessel models - the Fifie and the Zulu, plus a number of other equally good UK fishing vessels. 

 

There is a preserved Fife Reaper in Anstruther harbour .....  https://www.scotfishmuseum.org/zulu-gallery.php  and  https://www.classicboat.co.uk/news/iconic-fifie-reaper-to-be-reopened-to-public-after-1m-restoration/

 

 

There are many superb builds of all these vessels on MSW to enjoy and ask questions about.

 

Richard

Edited March 29 by Rik Thistle

[Jaager]

6 hours ago, Scottish Guy said:

Do you have a kit in mind here

I do, but I have no hands-on experience with any of them.  I started with a solid hull Balsa Scientific kit - a clipper - not a good beginner's choice - but it was so simplified - not much more than a decorator model really - that I was able to finish it.  I then started with a yellow box Model Shipways solid hull topsail schooner.  Those old style solid hull kits were so basic that going over to scratch and POF was a short step.  The lofting  for POF was and is a deep dive into a complex world and a serious time sink if the subject is a vessel of some size.  

So going by a swift current here, the Model Shipways sponsored  Shipwright Series appears to be a successful way to enter into this.  The old yellow box kits have become extinct.  The parent company Model Expo shows problems with ethics from time to time.  BlueJacket has beginner small craft that will also probably ease you into this.  Both are domestic to western hemisphere colony interests and subjects as well as import duty complexities.  I did not offer an initial suggestion because I suspected that there would be suggestions about kits from British source companies.  I do not know if there are any starter kits that are as hand holding as the Shipwright Series.  However you appear to be starting a bit farther down the road than our usual complete tyro so perhaps something a bit more sophisticated would work for you.

But - start with a boat in any case.   Even if you wish to replicated Nelson's fleet or  in my case Allin's (booo, booo) and Anson's (yeah)  fleets,  all of these ships carried multiple boats.  Learning how to build them first is anything but a waste of time.

[mtaylor]

Micha, you might consider the three ship beginner series from Model Expo.   It's designed by one our members here who's well known to modelers and will get through the basics of planking, and rigging in a step by step manner.

[Scottish Guy]

16 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Micha, you might consider the three ship beginner series from Model Expo.   It's designed by one our members here who's well known to modelers and will get through the basics of planking, and rigging in a step by step manner.

 

Hi Mark, I was wondering if the Artesania Latina 1/41 Virginia a good model would be for a beginner? They also offer a Billings 1/100 Bluenose II for around the same money. The look quiet nice and I thought they might be good boats to start with. Following the links to the both...

 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/artesania-latina-virginia-schooner/

 

https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/billings-bluenose-ii/

 

Those are the two I´m considering.

 

Micha

[mtaylor]

Hi Micha,

I really don't have an answer with those two models as I've never done one.   I hope someone else can provide an answer.

[Jaager]

Give a thought to something about the size of of Billings'  Torborg. 

With no experience with Billings as far as quality,  a search for a log that might provide the desired data came up empty.  A log by you would cut new ground.

A schooner is not a boat. A boat can be quick and dirty,  and if done using quality materials :  A finished small subject using one of the larger scales and the completed model living in a case on a shelf near you => confidence  and inspiration.   The more you bounce around here, the more background gained about what is of interest -  and how involved a specific kit really is.

As far as real quality wood materials that are a joy to work rather than a fight,  options are fairly limited - for example  Syren,  Vanguard, 3rd party sawmill sourced substitution, you being your own sawmill.

[Scottish Guy]

6 hours ago, Jaager said:

Give a thought to something about the size of of Billings'  Torborg. 

With no experience with Billings as far as quality,  a search for a log that might provide the desired data came up empty.  A log by you would cut new ground.

 

Hi Jaager, thank you for the answer. I couldn´t find the Billing Boats "Torborg" anywhere for ordering but I found the Billing Boats "Roar Ege" which I think is also "easy" enough as a starter kit and available at three shops to buy. I also couldn´t find a log in the forum for building one of those. I like the norse history and this boat reminds me a bit to vikings (somehow connected to Scotland by history).

 

Here is the boat / ship:

 

https://www.billingboats.com/index.php/modelboats-footer/56/120/boats/advanced-beginner/P-bb703-roar-ege

 

Micha

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, Scottish Guy said:

I couldn´t find the Billing Boats "Torborg" anywhere for ordering

I followed your wonderlandmodels link - clicked models and kits -  so much junk! - then checked the Billings isolating factor on the left and Torborg is top row at the right column.

It also looks clinker - the point is that it is an open boat.   - Rowing or single mast,  a boat is the best chance for completion.

 

The attrition rate for those attempting a first time wooden vessel and even going the extra step of doing it with a log is so high here that I have the conclusion -  it is almost impossible to start with a kit that is too simple. 

 

Most - probably pretty much all of us - start with plastic. 

I blame a large portion of  the high abandonment rate as  involving those who were serious about plastic and tried wood thinking that it is the same process with a different material.  The whole process is so different that it is like a whole other planet.   The unrealistic expectations about what help the instructions will provide and it being fabrication rather than the simple straight forward assembly of plastic leading to frustration and anger.   I have seen no exit interviews to support this proposition.

A wooden ship model is not one single process.  It is a series of subunits, each of which is a model unto itself. 

For all of us, our muse and our inspiration comes and goes.   The larger, the more complex the model,  the higher the probability is that the builder will not be there when the muse returns.  This is more likely with freshmen rather than seniors and grad students.  Nobody ever graduates.

[AJohnson]

Hi Micha,

 

Welcome to MSW! 
I have fond memories of the far North coast, we had many family holidays in the Durness and Balnakiel bay area. 
 

Good luck with your next project, hope you do a build log. Vanguard Models do a couple of really nice Scottish trawlers aimed at beginners  

[Scottish Guy]

9 hours ago, AJohnson said:

Hi Micha,

 

Welcome to MSW! 
I have fond memories of the far North coast, we had many family holidays in the Durness and Balnakiel bay area. 
 

Good luck with your next project, hope you do a build log. Vanguard Models do a couple of really nice Scottish trawlers aimed at beginners  

 

Hi Andrew,

 

let me say, the Balnakeil / Durness area is pretty nice, wish I would live there but visiting the area couple of times a year is already nice. Where I do live it´s also nice. I love the sea and when the waves crash over the harbour walls ^^. Living in a small fishing town is just what calms down my brain and myself, even if the tourists can be annoying sometimes lol

 

Micha

[AJohnson]

11 minutes ago, Scottish Guy said:

Living in a small fishing town is just what calms down my brain and myself, even if the tourists can be annoying sometimes lol

 

Micha

Apologies, hell I must of been one of those! 🤣

[Scottish Guy]

6 hours ago, AJohnson said:

Apologies, hell I must of been one of those! 🤣

 

nah, don´t think so Allan, no reason to apologise at all. At the end of the day, this little towns live from the tourists, the problem are more the camper vans that are unreasonable. When the beach car park is blocked by three camper vans and the locals barely can enter them to walk their dogs but another three camper vans squeeze themselves in, that´s when it gets annoying... even if i don´t understand it. I did / do camping to be on my own, to have freedom but than standing with 6 campervans (not always the smallest ones) in a car park designed for 8 passenger cars like sardines in a tin...

 

Micha

[Scottish Guy]

sooo... decision is done. I ordered the Billing Boats "Roar Ege" in 1/25 scale. Don´t know about the delivery times of cornwallmodelboats.co.uk but I hope it won´t take too long. Not sure about the paint, only ordered one tin (22ml) of paint yet, we will see how far I can go with that one. If not I have to order more of the colour.

 

Really looking forward to it. Might need some help to create the log for the build but I´m pretty certain that there will be folks here to help me with that when I ask questions about it.

 

Micha