HMS Lion by Ian_Grant - 1/150 - RADIO - RESTORATION - WW1 Battlecruiser

[ddp]

Kevin, what horsepower?

[Kevin-the-lubber]

1 minute ago, ddp said:

Kevin, what horsepower?

You've already gone way beyond my knowledge but google tells me 1/3 to 1/2 would be fine. This thing won't be turning heavy loads, probably about 1 kilo or thereabouts.

[Ian_Grant]

 

3 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That's really not bad at all for FDM printing, is it. I'd also chop off the funnels and do them separately - you can probably do that in the slicer.

 

Ian, can I pick your brains a little about motors, as you seem to know a sight more than me about these. I'm making various simple machines for other arty projects and one of these is a roller machine, that is quite similar to a rock tumbler. I could just buy a rock tumbler but I like solving puzzles and making stuff, besides which I can make everything apart from the motor. I've used a small, cheap, 220V  synchronous 5 rpm motor for proof of concept, it does the job but gets very hot after 30 mins continuous use. I need something that can run for hours, maybe even days. It also reverses direction at will, there must be some kind of internal counter that determines that this time it'll be clockwise, next time anti. Ideally I'd have control over that and even more ideally, I'd be able to control the speed via electronics rather than gears. Any suggestions, pointers?

Hi Kevin;  Do have happen to have specs/model number for your motor?  If it's getting hot I suspect it lacks the horsepower to tumble pounds of rocks.

Edited May 12 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

Kevin, I've forgotten most of what I learned (and all of what I didn't understand!) in second year electric machines class. I just took a look around on this topic and you're really opening a can of worms. I never realized how expensive motors can be. As you say, for a tumbler the word on the street says 1/3hp to 1/2hp to provide the torque to turn a barrel with (xx?) pounds of rocks in it. OK I thought, let's look for some. Brand new ones are several hundred dollars, which I guess is why you asked the question. There are many tumbling hobbyists recommending pulling an old motor out of a washing machine; seemingly a decent motor outlasts the washer.

 

Apparently the "National Geographic" tumblers, which are pretty economical, are economical because the motors they use cannot cut the mustard in tumbling applications and soon burn out.

 

Sorry I can't recommend a motor; perhaps ddp has his eye on something suitable?

[ddp]

Kevin, is it the motor getting hot, the speed control or both?

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Thanks both, I just thought I'd ask on the off-chance that you would know off the top of your head, but I don't want to hijack your log! 

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That's really not bad at all for FDM printing, is it. I'd also chop off the funnels and do them separately - you can probably do that in the slicer.

Actually on closer inspection the vents and funnel are pretty good, once you cut off the little "filament hairs" that the head spun between them while flitting around.

 

12 hours ago, NavyShooter said:

And, if you're looking for some minimally detailed ship's launches, here's a site that may help:  (you may have to sign up for this forum to access them though)

 

RN Steam Launches | R/C Warship Combat

 

Ship's boats and liferafts | R/C Warship Combat

 

The launch seems detailed enough for me at this scale; I don't plan to add railings. I don't think....

[NavyShooter]

Looking at your results with those, I'll suggest trying a 0.25mm nozzle with your FDM and slow down your printing speed a bit - you'll end up with a finer bit of detail, and a nicer finish.  The funnel and vents may turn out OK!

 

[Ian_Grant]

Found this museum steam launch; gives a nice colour scheme to use. I also like the Hotchkiss gun, the mount for which is molded into the printed boat. I wondered what it was for........

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

6 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

once you cut off the little "filament hairs"

I zap these with my soldering blowtorch, but that said, I can’t remember the last hairy print I had. I used to be plagued by that but think the filament heater solved that problem. 

[NavyShooter]

Suggestion - if you go with a Hobbywing 1080 ESC, you can adjust the internal frequency that they operate at - when operated at lower frequencies, they 'whine' like most ESCs do.  If you adjust the Freq to the higher end, the ESC whine effectively disappears.

 

I've got a video somewhere about doing that...let me dig up a link.

I don't know if your 1060's are able to be programmed the same way.

 

[NavyShooter]

Here's a video that talks about it a bit.  Option 13 for the PWM frequency will set it to higher frequencies - ideally go with the 16KhZ which is almost beyond the audible range, and makes it effectively silent!

 

 

 

[Ian_Grant]

No, the 1060 doesn't have complex programming like the 1080; it just has two simple jumpers one of which selects "driving " mode (brake/no brake etc; for boats we select simply Fwd/Rvrs),  the other of which selects battery type. I asked tech support and they told me for lead-acid just set the jumper to NiMH mode. I must say this simplicity appeals. Also, the 1080 is $25 more, $50 more for a pair to run my pair of motors.

 

I downloaded the 1080 user manual; programming is done via a single push button and an indicator LED which blinks different numbers of times depending on where you are in the programming flowchart and what you have selected. From my experience trying to program "Cateye" bicycle computers in a similar low-tech programming approach, this might be ok or it might be an exercise in frustration. They do mention, though, that selecting a higher PWM frequency will increase ESC heating since it is "on" more often.

 

I know what you're saying about the whine, though. I will ask the club members who recommended the 1060 if they have this problem. I'm still inclined toward the 1060 but hope I won't regret it.

 

In related news, my 12V motors arrived today!  I need a 12V battery then I could buy a pair of ESCs at the local shop (they have both the 1060 and 1080) and try them out. All new to me!

 

For reference, here is a link to the 1080 user manual. There are 15 programmable functions.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0109/9702/files/Manual_QUICRUN_WP-1080_G2-Brushed.pdf?v=1670441020

Edited May 14 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

Browsing videos of RC boat models, I came across one of a beautiful steam-powered model of the pre-dreadnought HMS Canopus (1897).

 

Have a look at the snapshots below. See those black "umbrella"-looking things at the four corners of the upper decks?

I think I found the answer to my question earlier about the "semaphores" on Lion.

Those look like mechanical semaphores with arms drooping when not in use.

The front right one in the shot has a crew member standing at its foot, showing the scale of the thing.

 

LATER EDIT

 

I did a google search before but I must have not included a key search word because I just struck gold:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/signalmirror/albums/72177720309364503/

 

Edited May 19 by Ian_Grant

[Keith Black]

 Ian, nice score on the semaphores research. 👍 

 

 Here's a bit more. 

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-91000/NH-91482.html

 

https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/363606/view/naval-semaphore-signalling

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Ian, nice score on the semaphores research. 👍 

 

 Here's a bit more. 

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-91000/NH-91482.html

 

https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/363606/view/naval-semaphore-signalling

Thanks Keith!  I see those have electric lights on the arms for night signalling, unlike the pics I found. Perhaps I will try to represent them although they'd be tiny at scale.

[Ian_Grant]

Finally got around to painting the bootstripe. It adds nicely to her appearance. I was out of "Frog Tape" masking tape so went to HD to discover they now sell Frog Tape only in really wide width; all others are "Painters Tape Ultra" which I know from past bitter experience is crap in terms of bleeding but I wanted to get the job done so I bought it anyway. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. As you might expect the tape bled in many places along the upper edge even though I tried my best to burnish it down. Redid it with 1/4" Tamiya tape with the green masking tape overlapping to shield the grey paint and got nice clean edges.

Printed two little jigs to help me bend the steam vent pipes consistently; needed two because there were two different offsets for the various pipe s-bends; 3/16" and 1/4".

Pipes at the aft funnel; "Q" turret's gun barrels traverse perilously near them. 🤔 In fact there are a couple of cross-pieces to add across the gap between the blast shields which must be concave to provide clearance for these barrels.

Pipes at the main funnel:

The funnels are not glued on; pipes are not glued in; need to form the support eyes and drill into the funnels to attach them.

 

Looking at 12V lead-acid batteries I now see I can only get 5Ah in the size I had planned, as opposed to the previous 12Ah 6V battery. An unexpected consequence. I can get 9Ah if I can shoehorn in a battery that is 15mm taller. I'm thinking I can move "Q" turret's rotator servo and mount out from under the turret by moving it to the next compartment and using a longer belt, if available. This would make room for the thicker battery, however this battery is also 0.8kg heavier so I need to, sigh, do another ballast/flotation test. At least the pools are thawed now.

 

Finally, I thought I'd buy the little sound card I saw a while go, which has an SD slot to store WAV audio files and is triggered simply by pulling any of 16 control pins to GND to play the associated sound.  I  can't find it now! Damn! 😠

 

Thanks for looking!

Edited May 24 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

OK, so this has nothing to do with Lion or even ships, but seeing as penguins are a recurring theme among the cognoscenti like Keith and Glen, I bring the following to your attention:

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/penguin-poop-helps-drive-cloud-formation-over-antarctica-according-to-a-new-study-180986686/?utm_source=smithsoniandaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&lctg=92646438

 

 

[Keith Black]

There's a great joke somewhere in there.  

[Glen McGuire]

Sounds like we need to start a large penguin colony here in Texas to help with our drought!

[Bill97]

Looking great Ian. Had to do a little searching to find what you were into now. This is battle cruiser is a new direction do you. 

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Bill! Nice to hear from you. Yes, it's a new direction since getting back into modelling, but as you know it's a reboot of an old build of mine. She is going to look much, much better than before.

 

Are you doing another wood build now?

 

Best Regards,

Ian

[Bill97]

Yes Ian I am. I am tackling the OcCre Amerigo Vespucci with some artistic privileges venturing outside the box. I am also doing an extensive lighting plan I hope works out. Here is the link if you want ant to take a peek. 
 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/38262-amerigo-vespucci-by-bill97-occre-1-100/

 

Bill

[Ian_Grant]

Bill you have a new follower on your AV build. 

[Ian_Grant]

I spend far too much time on the computer and not enough working on this model. I have made some progress, but I am going to switch from adding detail to getting it functioning on the water and keep adding to it. I have enough of the topsides done now that it would be presentable "with explanations" to the club members. Smoke and sound will have to wait for now.

 

Here are a few shots.

 

The foredeck: Looks great, but the only parts glued down are the main windlass and the anchor winches and chains. The rest of the parts are just placed for the shot, in fact I see I forgot to paint final grey on the breakwater which is still primer grey. Of course, it would only be the work of a few moments to CA the rest down, but only after I mask and paint the grey rim along the deck edges/torpedo net shelf.

Forward tower FINALLY assembled with glue. I procrastinated for weeks due to needing to have forward shelter deck railings in place beforehand.

The camera is certainly a humbling tool.........need to add a jumble of bracing beneath the forward projection of the compass platform out ahead of the chart house.

Speaking of railings, for some reason I decided to try for handrails on the two ladders on the shelter deck's aft edge. Bent up from 0.5mm brass rod.I ended up making seven to end up with four; the other three pinged off my tweezers and I simply couldn't find them. I enjoyed the process so much I am not adding handrails on ladders to the captain's walk. 🙄  I will however have to add them to two ladders at the aft end of the aft superstructure since they're quite a climb from the upper deck; also the two ladders down into the aft well deck. Did not even contemplate handrails for the ladders between decks in the tower.

Aft well deck, with some open engine room vents, a closed skylight, a closed hatch, and the pair of steam launches as yet unpainted.

As I mentioned there will be a ladder with handrails on each side. Somehow other boats have to cram in outboard of the launches.

Final shot: the painted funnel grates and steam vent pipes at fore and main funnels. My flat black seems to have become satiny near the end of the bottle which has happened to me before. Will be touching up.

So, I now have both my 12V motors and my two ESC units. Next steps are:

 

(1) Grease prop tubes and add props/shafts.

(2) Add motors with U-joint links.

(3) Measure the current draw of a motor driving its 2" prop.

(4) Fingers crossed - the current is not high and I can order the smaller 12V gel battery.

(5) If high will need to do another ballast/load test to see if larger 12V gel batt weight could be tolerated. If so need to rework the rotating mechanism for "Q" turret to make room for the bigger battery.

(6) I can do some more building while I wait for whichever battery to arrive. If Canada Post goes on strike (yet again!) it could be a while.

 

Thanks for following and the likes!

 

Ian

[Keith Black]

Looking super, Ian. 

[Glen McGuire]

13 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

the other three pinged off my tweezers and I simply couldn't find them.

It's ridiculous how many times that happens.  I'm convinced there is an invisible black hole surrounding my work area that those things fall into.

 

Regardless, that is really nice detail you are adding.  She is looking good.

[Keith Black]

14 minutes ago, Glen McGuire said:

It's ridiculous how many times that happens.  I'm convinced there is an invisible black hole surrounding my work area that those things fall into.

 It's not a black hole, Glen. It's the tweezers, the devil's own tool.  

[rookie]

That is quite an upgrade from “teenage Ian” version 

well done!