How will laser cutters compliment our hobby tomorrow?

[EspenT]

Just like resin printers have filled a gap and are creating a multi million dollar market for plastic modellers, I wonder when (not if) we will start to see the same thing happen in wooden ship building. The price/quality ratio for resin printer has improved drastically over the last 3 years. This has led to an explosion of both aftermarket and full kits being available for home print.

 

It wont be long before you have very good desktop lasers available for less than 4-500 dollars, and I hope to see the same trend in our hobby. Just being able to make your own spare part if you broke a piece would be great. I could of course scan the plans, clean them up and use Lightburn or similar to print them, but I would much prefer to be able to for example  contact @chris watton at Vanguard Models and buy the Gcode for piece 55 of the Sherbourne model directly. He will make some money and I would have my piece within minutes. win-win.

 

Just like there are plastic modellers that would never move out of the comfort zone of what they have always been doing, there will be wood modellers that never will embrace this. But I am sure there will be a market for it here just as in other hobbies.

 

What do you guys think about this? How long before we see marketplaces where we can buy files for our laser cutters?

[Bob Fraser]

I have a Sculpfun S30 5W 40x40cm laser with air assist and limit switches.  Cost is £280 or under $400 US.

I'm also using Lightburn, which has just doubled in price and will no longer update for Linux systems.

I'm using it at the moment to learn Lightburn and to design and cut the deckhouses and mast parts for the Mini Mamoli Cutty Sark that look the part even if not exact because of the very small scale.

The laser can cut a 0.5mm circle, however at small scales you do have to be careful with the width and length of the beam, and the direction of the cut, so an allowance distance between the cut lines needs to be factored in.

 

 

 

Edited November 5 by Bob Fraser

[EspenT]

Very nice. How do you get rid of smoke and fumes? Are you using it in a very ventilated room or have you built some extractor for it?

 

[Bob Fraser]

At the moment I have it in a small ventilated room using a fan, but aim to build a cabinet with a 4" extractor fan and tube it to the window.

[Gregory]

I can see kit makers being reluctant to sell their files, however if you already have a kit, its pretty easy to scan a part or plan and make an image that LightBurn will convert to .SVG

 

I do this already with kits and plans.

[EspenT]

9 minutes ago, Gregory said:

I can see kit makers being reluctant to sell their files, however if you already have a kit, its pretty easy to scan a part or plan and make an image that LightBurn will convert to .SVG

 

I do this already with kits and plans.

If people want to go down the dark road of piracy there are few things that are simpler to copy than 2D files with simple geometry. What I think keeps people returning to buy more kits is the overall quality of the kits. From the quality of the materials to detailed instructions, nice photo etch, sails and ropes. 

Edited November 5 by EspenT

[Gregory]

I hope you don't think I'm talking about piracy.  I'm talking about making replacement parts for personal use from a kit or plans I own..  Typically to replace some parts with better wood like box or pear.

The laser is also great for cutting out spiled planks.

 

Being able to buy laser files from a kit maker would make it all that easier for a pirate to do their thing.

Edited November 5 by Gregory

[modeller_masa]

The laser's thickness is pretty wide. It is enough to replace classic milling machines and table saws, but I doubt it'll be the new standard.

The real game changer is a resin 3D printer. There are tons of new 3D printed kits on the world market. It is essential device to reach the next level of modeling.

[Gregory]

While there are some real nice printed parts, I'm reluctant to go down that road for most parts in model sailing ship building.

 

I like working with wood, and I don't like to paint, which is required for most printed parts.

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

A lasercutter to me is essentially a fancy scroll saw for wood work.

 

I personally enjoy cutting everything out by hand but that may change in the future if I get tired of my coping and fret saws.

 

So, I see a lasercutter as an additional CNC machine tool to save time with, if one is so inclined.

[dvm27]

Yes, I enjoy working with wood as well but when it comes to making hundreds of blocks, belaying pins, cleats, etc. I think 3D printing is the way to go. Chucks 3D fittings look exactly like box or pearwood so I'm happy to use them.  The limiting factor is, of course, preparation of the stl or other cutting files required to 3D print them. I feel that's a level of computer expertise beyond my aging skillset.

[druxey]

Tomorrow is already here!Pparts that are 3D printed are really high resolution now, but items such as carved work lack a certain 'life' and look too perfect.

Edited November 6 by druxey

[Gregory]

I really like the look of the new Syren blocks, but I have a lot of the old wood ones

[wefalck]

Well, it's the old discussion of machine work vs. hand work ... there are people cutting their own files and saws and making their own drills to replicate ancient manufacturing process in e.g. watchmaking ...

 

I got into laser-cutting with a simple and small machine for making intricate small parts, because it is less messy than photo-etching and because it can be used 'ad hoc', i.e. I can make parts, when I need them. Cutting larger pieces of wood requires a lot of supporting infrastructure, such as extraction fans or even water cooling, which makes their use difficult, unless you live in your own house.

 

3D-MLA-printing will be the future I think. However, it also requires considerable supporting infrastructure, as you need to have a workbench, where you can mess around with the resin, for cleaning the printer and the parts and for post-processing (UV-curing). So there are limitations depending on your personal circumstances.

 

The question is, whether you want the best possible result, no matter what means, or whether you want to show off your craftmanship.

[mtaylor]

This is a tricky question in many ways.   I fondly remember the old racer's adage:  "Speed costs money.  How fast do you real want to go?".  Applies to lasers also.  There's production cutting and hobby product.  Different bed sizes, different power specs for the the laser.  Answers depend on type of wood and thickness.   

 

As to cutting files....   I use plans and it's fairly painless to copy them to digital, clean up,and then use them on the cutter. There's not much work on getting plans for cutting on a laser compared to the 3D plans needed for a 3D printer.  

[modeller_masa]

 

 

This is a polyjet 3D printer, which uses FDM filaments as ink. It uses 7 filaments to mix colors.

- C, M, Y, Bk, Wh, Transparent, Urethane (Flexible)

- Support (It fills empty space.)

 

 

Examples (In Korean)

[Vane]

I think there are two major problems for the wooden ship kit industry to evolve:

- Its a very small market and I am not so sure if there are so many new "modellers" getting in to it
- Its very traditional relying on traditional material and alot of carve it yourself practices

Look at the major manufactureers. They dont come up with any new kits and most of what they sell are 20-50 year old kits. 3d printing and lazer cutters have been around for years but the kits are still made from plywood/walnut milled in CNC machines and casted white metal. Vanguard models is the pioneer in reinventing the business with much success but its a very niche market.

And are the old modellers willing to change? Can wooden ships actually be made of the "wrong materials" like resin and plastics? Chris Wattons "plastic guns" are way more detailed than the ones in metal but they dont have the same weight. Is it real then? Personally I love alolt of the new stuff to make modelling more detailed and also easier. Buuuuut..... not all new solutions.     

China is another problem. They dont care about copyright so if they get their hands on the data files we can expect them to start copying.... 

[wefalck]

... I thought the thread was about home-use of such technologies.

 

The traditional kit manufacturers sell the same models as 50 years ago, because the tooling as such and development of new tooling is expensive, too expensive for the the presumably declining margins due to Asian competition. The traditional tooling, such as moulds for injection moulding or casting metal parts, or the cutting templates for pre-cutting of wooden parts are rigid and expensive. These kit manufacturers probably should team up with Eastern European programmers and Asian workshops to stay in business. Otherwise, they will disappear.

 

Small basement manufacturers seem to be much more flexible and adopted the new technologies fast, because the machinery is cheap compared to the traditional one and need very little skills in comparison to operate them. You can run a laser-cutter or 3D-printer without being a skilled mechanic.

 

I don't think it is a question of plastic vs. wood, but a question of what look you want to achieve. For a 'realistic' model, it is not too difficult to achieve convincing wood-effects by painting (a technique in principle centuries old and known as 'wood-graining'), but the look of an 'artisanal' wood model can only be achieve only with wood.

 

The fact that there are now many Russian, Ukrainian and Chinese wood-kits on the market seems to show that there still is a market, if the price is right. Some of these kits seem to be extremely well designed, so that also a relatively unexperienced modeller can achieve good results. This is likely to reduce the entrance threshold and may be good for this hobby.

 

This is a bit off-topic, but the real problem for manufacturers of 'serious' models is, that over the past two decades or so children increasingly grow up in a cartoon and manga world. When most of us were children, these existed only magazines, but not everywhere around the childrens' rooms. They shape the childrens' world view and their expectations, when it comes to modelling. There seems to be quite a limited interest in history and historic or real world subjects, which is probably why the traditional manufacturers are struggling and selling mostly to past-middle-age adults.

 

[ChristopherEvo]

I've got a 20w laser, have been wondering how I could put it to use, would mainly just be in adding parts to a kit I imagine, like people have been changing the model I'm working on to make it more historically correct, I could have used the laser to make the extra bits, I think after my learning curve I will maybe try the same model again and add in the extra bits, get a 3d printer to do the rest of the bits.