HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[druxey]

BTW a javelin is not the same thing as a spear. As the Major General in Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance sang: "I know Mauser rifle from a javelin".

[AON]

Is this not a Toe-may-toe Toe-mah-toe type thing?  

[BANYAN]

Hi Alan, first nice progress with your drawings - should turn into a nice figurehead.

 

As to Javelin Vs Spear - Druxey is quite right to point out the difference as a javelin is a light throwing spear differentiated mainly with a javelin not having a head; whereas a spear generally does.

 

cheers

 

pat

[AON]

so size does matter?  

 

Many images of the "stick" show it with a head, whereas others do not.

According to the story the lead head melted off when the beast breathed fire at it.  The melted lead flowed into it's mouth and killed it.

So at the beginning of the fight it was a spear and at the end it was a javelin?  

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by AON

[cog]

Alan,

 

You are confusing me:

"Many images of the "stick" show it with a head, whereas others do not. "

 

Masts are often refered to as "sticks" and masts too have a head ...

for those wanting to throw a more or less pointed stick,  here is some further reading.

Maybe it was a javelin all the time, but only at the end a very blunt one

[AON]

Carl

Sorry to confuse you, think of what I was going through!

Thank you for the link. It was very informative.

Mine will be a pole for now.  Eventually it will have a sharp head attached, but it will about 15 feet long only because everything is larger than life when part of a figurehead.

Is it a javelin or spear.

One thing I know it is not a pike or lance

.Alan

[cog]

12 minutes ago, AON said:

think of what I was going through!

I'd rather not ... mind boggling

[AON]

Had my eye injection yesterday.  At 10 week intervals now from 4 weeks.  Hope to progress to 12 weeks and eventually be healed but that could be 5 to 8 years I am told.  So yesterday was an painful day.  Today I can see without tearing up or having a massive head/eye ache but I must stay out of dusty environments for 3 days so no shop time for me.

So I worked on my Marquette sculpture.  Very first attempt.  I must say this is fun.  Looked through the house for an old wire cloths hanger but everything is plastic!  So I used 12 gauge copper wire for the internal support.  It seems to be holding up okay.

 

I have to work on the mane, tail, wings, and Bellerophon's head and cloak.  That will be tomorrow and Sunday if necessary.

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by AON

[AON]

Worked on it a bit more today and I have all the features on.

I am not happy with the cape and I can hear one special someone whispering the wings are much to large and would break off with the first wave impact.... but I wanted to see what it would look like.

So tomorrow I will work on the cape and cut the wings down to half size with no fold (simplified).2018-03-24 15.25.08.mp4

[cog]

You could shape the wings into the hawk's attacking stance ... which is half folded to give more speed but still have enough maneuverability. It would also give the wings more strength in that poise ... maybe something to consider

[AON]

Thank you for the suggestion Carl.

I searched on the internet and found a few good examples but after having simply shorten them up I believe they do not look so bad... definitely not as majestic as they could have been but it would have been too ornamental and costly for a mere 74 gun ship of the line .

Below are the last of these photos.  I shortened the wings, changed the cape, and straightened out his back a bit as with all the handling it was beginning to go into a landing stance .  The front and hind legs seem a bit thick but I cannot go much thinner on this clay model.  I haven't the skill

Later this week I will pick up some squares of Linden (local boxwood) for carving and when I feel the need for a change I will start hacking away to get some 3X enlarged practice sample pieces.  Until then I need to get back to making frames.

 

[AON]

On 18/03/2018 at 9:43 AM, dvm27 said:

Alan, from Figureheads of the Royal Navy, by David Pulvertaft. "Her figurehead was described as the naked figure of the young Greek hero, Bellerophon, riding bareback on the rearing winged horse, Pegasus, wearing a golden helmet with white plumes and a short red cloak flying back from his shoulders." (Citation Edward Fraser, Bellerophon, The Bravest of the Brave,  Wells Gardner, Darton and Co, 1909).

Greg,

I ordered the book after reading your post copied above. It came in today.  Not only do I have the quote in the original print now, it is accompanied by a photo of the figurehead of the Boyne with William III on horseback.  A great reference.  And then to add to this, I now know the original carver's name (pg. 21) of this original figurehead of HMS Bellerophon as described above.

Thank you!

Alan

Edited March 27, 2018 by AON

[AON]

No progress on my build.  The windowless playroom in the basement lost out to the call of the sun outside... but now summer is over, laying about is done, too cold and wet for fishing for these bones, and the grass seems to have stopped growing.  Two bathroom renovations are done and the flooring of two other rooms is done and over.  Time to get back at her.  My goal this season is to get all the frames done and expect to start in the next couple weeks after yet one more diversion project is completed.

 

I had got some progress on my first crack at carving the oversized X3 (too large for the model) figurehead.  I had been working on it while sitting outside on the patio under the shade of the pergola and willow in late August.  Took it to our September club meeting.  Below are some pics. Still a considerable amount of work left to go on this... for later when I get bored.

 

There is a small diversionary project on the go and I expect it will take another week or so before I finally get onto the Billy Ruffian once more.

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by AON

[SJSoane]

Hi Alan,

 

It is fascinating to see your figurehead evolve. To my mind, that is the most daunting part of the entire build. I will watch with great interest!

 

Mark

[BANYAN]

Nice work mate.  How did you get away with 'lazing about'?  The Admiral would have the bosun onto me with a rope end had I tried that  

 

cheers

 

Pat

[AON]

Simple.

I am the Admiral on my ship.

However, please do not disturb Her Majesty with this info.  

[cog]

On 11/5/2018 at 1:29 PM, AON said:

I am the Admiral on my ship.

wishful thinking ...

[AON]

Short update and more.

 

If you're visiting you are probably wonder where had I gone and what have I been up to?

 

Well I am back on my build, have been for weeks.  I can proudly say it no longer bothers me to remove frames.  It used to tear at my heart and soul.  Lord knows how many times I've put them on and taken them off in the last few weeks.  I do not give it a second thought anymore.

I have gotten frames installed past the location where I last stopped before summer.  To recap, I had taken them all off back to the Forward Fashion Pieces, and then I swung my hand over the model and snapped off one of the two forward fashion pieces.  It has been remade and installed and it is all now looking good with good alignment.  After too many removals and re-installations my CDO (OCD for others) is satisfied.  The plan is that I will be putting all frames in (sanding to shape when the aft cant and fore cant frames are installed and then again when those between are in) then marking off the gun ports, then removing frames individually, cutting the gun ports and notches for the cills, and finally replacing them as I go along.  It will be a long process as I have many interests and diversions and so do not seem to advance as quickly as other modellers.  I will only post when I've something substantial or worthy to look at (or am stumped and need advise) so do not think I've gone for good if you don't see a progress report for awhile.  Building and installing frames is repetitive work.

 

Meanwhile I have been lucky enough to have had an opportunity to review all but ten of the 150 issues of the Model Shipwright Magazine (1972 - 2008) and have scanned numerous articles, tips and tricks, etc. that caught my fancy.  I will be getting a few more next month.

From these I got the idea of a hardwood cutting (sawing/chiselling board).  So Yesterday I made one.  This inspired me to make a holding setup block for my protractor to free up my hand when setting the adjustable bed on my sander.  I had tried numerous methods from clamps to different style protractors but the one in the photo below is my favourite and now I can have one hand on the Allen Key and the other holding the bed.

I also attached one photo of my build table as of this morning.

 

Before Christmas I had built a 1:12 scale 9 pound naval cannon (posted on the forum).  The cannon and balls were 3D printed for free at the local library.  After several attempts they got something I could use but it was in two halves (Breech/Muzzle) and I had to 2 part epoxy glue it together.  I found the insignia difficult to see through the Plexiglas case so I had increased the size and finally coloured (painted) it to highlight so it would stand out.  I have since purchased a 3D printer and have printed a one piece cannon (1:12) with the insignia at the proper size.  One fellow at our club at our meeting earlier this month told me how to clean up the plastic a bit and paint the cannon with an acrylic flat black spray paint.  He says the insignia will likely be more noticeable if flat black versus the shiny plastic.  So I will be attempting this.  Meanwhile I've been trying to print it at 1:64 scale.  My first few attempts were a disaster.  Today's attempt was better but not quite there yet.  Too many adjustments to get it right for the small scale and specific type of PLA plastic... the learning curve.  The picture below shows my one piece 1:12 print along with the printer attempting the 1:64 in the background.

 

I apologise for the long story but you may not see another post for awhile.

[mtaylor]

You have been busy, Alan.  Things seem to be looking up and learning something new is always good.   

[vossiewulf]

Alan, try Tamiya flat black on the resin cannon. Tamiya flat black stays soft and can be burnished. Take a little piece of felt (you can also just use your finger) and polish gently. The recesses will stay matte, high points will be most shiny, exactly how things work in the real world. That's my go-to finish for black iron/steel on plastic, I also used it successfully on one of Model Expo's cannons, the 3 inch Ordnance Rifle.

 

 

[SJSoane]

Alan, looks great!

Let me know when you have a showable 1:64 cannon!

 

Mark

[Louie da fly]

On 3/19/2018 at 2:50 AM, druxey said:

BTW a javelin is not the same thing as a spear. As the Major General in Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance sang: "I know Mauser rifle from a javelin".

"when I know what is meant by "mamelon" and "ravelin"

 

I'd never heard of a mamelon so I looked it up. Worth checking out.

 

Revisiting the spear vs javelin thing for a moment, spear is the generic term for a "knife on the end of a stick" - pikes, javelins and lances (and assegais, for that matter) are all spears, but their functions are different. A (military) javelin does have a head, but it's usually very small, as it's a thrown weapon. Most javelins are quite short  - compared with, say, a 15 foot pike a javelin's more likely to be between 6 and 8 feet long.

 

Love the figurehead, by the way. Any progress since the last photo?

 

Steven

Edited January 28, 2019 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

I stand amended in that extended quotation, Steven. In my defence, it's been decades since I was involved with a production of The Pirates of Penzance!

[AON]

are we still talking about the stick?

[druxey]

Yup. The pointy thing.

[AON]

Regarding progress on the figurehead...

I am leaving the larger version for the summer but did start the smaller version.  The big one is a nice project for the outside patio.

 

The small one is my first stab (spear pun intended) at such a tiny carving.  Nothing to brag about as yet. It will likely become kindling and be replaced by a second and third try. I started with my dremel but do not like dealing with the "fur" it creates so I've reverted to my miniture chisels and knives. It is a part time project... forcing myself to walk away and think about the next slice before I screw it up too early in the game.  If this one becomes a keeper it will be a fluke.

 

I noticed Admiralty Models is considering having a carving seminar in the future.  Not sure if it would be held south or north of the longest ungaurded border... but it got my attention and I am waiting for more news.

[Louie da fly]

9 hours ago, druxey said:

I stand amended in that extended quotation, Steven. In my defence, it's been decades since I was involved with a production of The Pirates of Penzance!

Oh no, Druxey. You got the quote correct. I was just quoting the next line, to keep the game going. But there was only ever one mamelon - it was a hill in the Crimean campaign, which looked to the French soldiers like a mamelon (=nipple). Both it and a ravelin are/were defensive works.

 

Alan, I look forward to the progress on the figurehead, even if you end up throwing it away and doing another. But I find in my own carving (see my dromon build log) that once it's roughed out you just "cut away anything that doesn't look like Bellerophon and Pegasus". The most difficult thing seems to be the face, and I usually concentrate on that first, once the roughing out is done, because if you stuff that up there's no point in doing the rest of it. It's like anything else in a build, though - patience and care, and don't hurry. And do it again if you're not satisfied - you're the one who has to be happy with it.

 

Steven

[AON]

At this point I am still roughing out.  Started by cutting a small block of boxwood (Linden) and marked off the center line, then traced the outline of the image on all four sides.  Presently removing down to near proper depths to reveal a block 3D image.  Then will come shaping.  Likely I will do the heads first, then the arms and wings and work down.... but today I have to glue another frame on my build and then cut more slats, plane to thickness, trace and scroll out yet more frames.... one quadrillion to go!

[paulsutcliffe]

17 hours ago, AON said:

I noticed Admiralty Models is considering having a carving seminar in the future.  Not sure if it would be held south or north of the longest ungaurded border... but it got my attention and I am waiting for more news.

why don't you just ask david when you are at the Niagara region meeting?? then you can let us all know!!

[paulsutcliffe]

17 hours ago, AON said:

I noticed Admiralty Models is considering having a carving seminar in the future.  Not sure if it would be held south or north of the longest ungaurded border... but it got my attention and I am waiting for more news. 

why dont you ask david at your next Niagara region club meeting? and let us all know!!😀😀