HMS Bellerophon 1786 by AON – scale 1:64 – 74-gun 3rd Rate Man of War - Arrogant-Class

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, cog said:

maybe a shower will help with the singing ...

But then he couldn't use power tools. 

[AON]

A hot shower helps my thinking... working out problems.  But I'd likely just drown if I opened my mouth.  And power tools.  OMG.  I'm dangerous enough without adding water into the mix.

Here is proof.

All healed.  Fingernail grew back. And I work much smarter now.

[cog]

Auch ... didn't you read up on the "Howto work with power tools" topic? Lucky it grew back on and you do not have a split personality ... afterwards.

[AON]

Aren't tablesaws wonderful.

 

My uncle, a master carpenter, took his thumb off with a mitre saw.

[gjdale]

8 hours ago, AON said:

Aren't tablesaws wonderful.

That’s why I was allowed to buy a SawStop Tablesaw. That’s one purchase I didn’t even have to try to convince SWMBO was worth the investment - just showed her the video and she “ordered” me to buy one!!!!

[cog]

Grant, must have been self-interest from madame  

[BANYAN]

Can I get your Admiral to speak with mine Grant?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[gjdale]

I count myself very fortunate in this regard Pat. She’s also just given approval-in-principle for major capital expenditure for proper dust collection in the “big” workshop. All I have to mention is “safety” and approval is forthcoming.

 

Sorry for the highjack Alan - and now we return you to normal programming....

[AON]

not an issue. 

 

found a decent image of the union flag in my dad's Manual of Seamanship 1937 Vol. 1 book (Plate 1)

next I've got to dig out my stash of silkspan cloth

[druxey]

Although those illustrations are 'modern' proportions.

[AON]

Funny enough, after reducing them 74% they scale 7-6" x 15'-0"

I could easily re-scale in one direction (horizontally) to match The 2:3 ratio of TFFM versus the 1:2 ratio of The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships using MS Paint program.

 

Found all my supplies from my Admiralty Models Sail-making Workshop (2014) and Flag workshop (2015), Plus the suppliment in TFFM Vol IV.

Time to do some reading.

[AON]

here it is at 2:3 ratio (7'-6" x 11'-3")

[AON]

The following post is with permission from Admiralty Models, specifically David Antscherl.   This technique was learnt at both the Admiralty Model Sail-making and the Flag Making Workshops I had attended years past.  They are also presented in David's Books: The Fully Framed Model, Volume IV (referred to as TFFM) and in The Greenwich Hospital Barge.

 

I must explain that although I had decided to go with the 1:2 ratio for the size of my flag, after printing it and the 2:3 ratio version, and having noted that the actual flag I found online at the NMM, RMG website was more square than rectangular, I've changed my mind and decided to go with the more box looking version.

 

First you need a mounting board.  My mounting board is made from stiff illustration board and has a rectangular hole cut out of it.  The plug from the hole is saved and reinserted when tracing the image to the cloth.  It is light and easily handled.

 

Second you need brown gummed tape, the type used by artist.  It looks like butchers tape to me.  I purchased mine online through DeSerres of Longeuil, Quebec.  They refer to it as "gummed brown paper".  The tape is cut into four lengths to hold the Silkspan down to the mounting board.  You dampen a sponge and wipe the gummed side lightly and it is ready to use.

 

I cut my Silkspan oversized, larger than the mounting board hole.  Silkspan is the cloth used by airplane modellers and looks like the material used for tea bags.  I dampened it with water and let the excess drain away. Then I placed it on the mounting board over the hole while the cloth was still wet.  Note that the plug was removed from the mounting board!  I did my very best to lay it flat but had to ask for help with an extra set of hands to get the job done.  The damp Silkspan was taped to the mounting board with the brown gummed tape.  This was put aside and allowed to dry.  As the cloth dried it stretched tight... no wrinkles.

 

Once dry I re-installed the plug in the mounting board, then I traced the image of the flag onto the Silkspan using carbon paper, a sharp soft pencil and a short straight edge.  I did not use too much pressure as the cloth, to me, is quite delicate (thin and open weave).  The image was taped to the board with green painter's tape so it would not shift.

 

With that job done now comes the fun part.... this involves mixing muted blue and red colours which will be applied (with a steady hand and fine brush) as a wash (thin

Edited April 8, 2019 by AON

[AON]

So it started off looking like crap but finished not so awful.

 

Got all my gear out. 

A Number 2 brush seemed narrow enough.

Mixed the Cobalt Blue Hue with tiny touch of Naples Yellow Hue to mute the blue.

Thinned out the Red Oxide with water alone and applied light coats.  Possibly I should have added a touch of green to mute the red but I thought it looked okay.... and I didn't have any green!

Used water thinned Unbleached Titanium White in between.

 

All blue and red hues of paint was thinned with water and applied as a wash so as not to be opaque.

The white was applied similarly, but less so on the hoist edge so this edge would be opaque.

Both sides of the material were painted, allowing one colour to dry before switching to another.

 

I had the red and blue colours bleed into the white area before the white was applied..

At first I found the mounting board was so thin that when the Silkspan got too wet it sagged and touched the paper below that was on my table top and started the bleeding... but then it happened when I set it on top of a plywood board I had used in the sail-making workshop.

Possibly my hand wasn't steady enough... or I can blame it on my bad eye  

 

After applying the titanium white wash the blue and red bleeding seemed to disappear.

I'll have another look in the morning and do some touch ups... wait a bit and then decide if I'll call this the trial run and take another stab at it or decide that this is a keeper. 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by AON

[druxey]

Once hung, any small wobble along a paint edge will be hardly noticeable, especially if you artfully drape the flag!

 

Your only difficulty now is to have a ship to place underneath the flag....

Edited April 8, 2019 by druxey

[Dowmer]

 Not bad Alan. Freehand is tough.

Have you tried the method Chuck does on the Cheerful build.  Put tissue on a sheet of paper and print your flag on it.  Then spray with some fixative.  It comes out great in a fraction of the time.

 

 

[AON]

Druxey

All in good time.  I am enjoying the ride.  Especially the side trips.  As I've said before... this is likely the only ship I'll build, or care to build.

 

Dowmer

No I haven't.  I will have to look into this.

 

Alan

[Dowmer]

Alan,

Here’s a link to Chucks explanation. Cheerful Link

 

And heres a link to where I show how I did it for my longboat. 18th century Longboat

 

It was very easy and quick compared to the other time consuming things building a ship, and I

don’t consider myself very computer literate. 😃

 

 

[AON]

Dowmer

Thank you for the links.  It seems simply enough although I am not familiar with the spray... worth Googling.

Just had a review and they both look wonderful.

 

However I just had a look at my flag and she seems much better now that she is thoroughly dried.  I simply need to touch up two tiny spots.

Held it up to the light and the flag is translucent (can see through it) except for the hoist edge which was the effect I was after.

 

I will also need to add the grommet dots and drill holes through so it can be fixed to the staff.

Then it needs to be shaped.

 

Hope to post these later today.

 

Druxey: As this is day four after my eye needle I am now allowed back in my workshop so I'll be getting back to my forward cant frames.  Slow and steady....

 

[AON]

Just Googled "Krylon Matt Fixative"

It is available at Home Hardware which is about a mile away from me.

Now that I've seen it I think I may even have a very old can of this stuff down stairs in the storage room.

[AON]

nope it was an adhesive spray can

[Dowmer]

1 hour ago, AON said:

I will also need to add the grommet dots and drill holes through so it can be fixed to the staff.

Then it needs to be shaped.

 

Grommet dots?  I was under the impression in that time that they used toggles?  It was difficult to find any definitive info on such a mundane detail, but Jean Boudroit has a representation in one of his books.  I’ll be up at the Naval Academy this week and I’ll take a look at some of the period flags (war prizes) they have on display.

 

 

Heres a partial picture of what I was referring to 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this this is how I solved it.   Its 1\48 scale.  It’s not perfect but close enough for what I was trying to do.

 

 

 

I hope that helps and doesn’t muddy the waters. 😀

 

 

 

 

 

[AON]

Grommet dots along the hoist side at about 9 inch intervals for loops that held the hoist against the staff.

Yes there were toggles (now Inglefield clips) at the top and bottom of the hoist.

 

I would be very interested in seeing images of the captured flags... particularly in this case a Jack

[AON]

Practically done with this attempt.  I am not completely satisfied with my painting and may make another after I purchase some green acrylic paint and a softer white.  I would use a finer brush and thinner wash (acrylic paint diluted with water) on any other attempt.  I will try the "printed" version on tissue paper for comparison but I feel I will need to add the hoist edge and grommet holes to the image so these are printed also.  I'll need to acquire white tissue paper at the dollar store and the fixative from Home Hardware to pull this off.

 

My reference for the grommet holes is Volume IV of TFFM (The Fully Framed Model) pages 121/122,  and is clearly shown in the bottom photo on page 203.  His reference is Steel - Rigging and Seamanship, Volume II, page 129 (`the jack is bent to the halliard by rope bands of 2 lb of white marline`).  2 lbs is the weight per fathom (6 feet = 1.8 meters) so I imagine this to be something like 1/2" diameter rope.

 

So I did the minor touch ups, marked off 9 inch intervals (equally spaced from top edge to bottom edge) against the hoist edge and added dots to suggest the sailmaker's style sewn grommets (http://www.frayedknotarts.com/sailmaking.html) for the 2 strand marline rope (https://rwrope.com/classic-boat-supplies/tarred-marline-tarred-hemp-twine/) used to secure the hoist edge against the halyard (not the staff as I typed earlier) as the jack was raised with the halyard.  These dots were made on both sides using the smallest paper embossing ball burnishing tool  (0.03" or 0.81mm diameter ball) that I have in my arsenal.

 

I intend to simulate tying my flag to the haliyard with glued thread so once the simulated grommets dried I made a hole through each using a #74 drill bit (0.0225" or 0.5715mm diameter) which would be about 1-1/2" diameter at 1:64 scale.  This is likely too large but I will hopefully be able to coax short lengths of simulated marline through those.

 

I put the plug back in and cut out the jack using a scalpel.  I then clamped the hoist edge to a metal square with a magnet, brushed some water onto the flag and put in a primary or initial curl.  After allowing this to dry I then wetted the outer portion or the fly quarter and put in a secondary or final curl.  I had to set the square on end to allow the Silkspan to retain the shape while it dries.

 

So below are four photos and a short video showing the finished product.

 

 

 

 

 

Finished product - Union Jack video.wlmp

Edited April 9, 2019 by AON

[AON]

I have no idea why my photos get turned or become out of sequence when loaded.

I've tried to correct this but possibly I need a sprinkle of holy water to correct the problem.

[John Cheevers]

You guys are having way too much fun!!

 

[AON]

It is Thursday morning and I find the imperfection of my flag is growing on me.  It seems to make it more realistic and worn.

 

Yesterday I employed a set of extra hands, found some 1 inch line in my stash and glued the flag to it.  I dabbed a fine line of yellow glue to the line and while pre-aligned and supported on a chuck of 2x4 wood I manoeuvred the two together.

 

The head of the hoist edge did not contact the line.  After allowed to dry, I moistened the corner with a soft paint brush and water and reshaped it to align with the halyard.  Presently it is drying.  Once done I will glue this to the line.

 

I managed to drill two fine holes into the truck or cap of the jack staff for the line.  As I was concerned with breaking the truck I started with a #76 drill bit in my pin vise and while slowly twisting it back and forth to drill and clear away the chips I sequentially opened it up with slightly larger bits until I reached #70.   This will allow me to stuff the line into the hole after I dab some glue on it.

 

I found rope for the marline and still need to make a cleat.

 

And I still intend to print a flag to see how it compares.

 

(and once again my photos are loaded out of intended order but I've managed to drag them intoa  proper sequence))

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by AON

[SJSoane]

On 4/9/2019 at 5:05 PM, AON said:

I have no idea why my photos get turned or become out of sequence when loaded.

I've tried to correct this but possibly I need a sprinkle of holy water to correct the problem.

Alan,

 

I just discovered the other day--after suffering from the same problem--that you can drag photos directly into the text box where you want them, rather than dragging them into the attachment box at the bottom. They still show up in the attachment box, but they stay in the right order in the text box. I am not sure of the effect of holy water as well....

 

Mark

[AON]

I will try that next.

I had put them in the box then tried dragging them out to put in the text.

[mtaylor]

Here's the method I use... somewhere we lost the "actual" instructions for posting pictures.

 

1) Type text.   Add some spacing (carriage returns) where you want the photos.

 

2)  Upload photos.

 

3)  Put the cursor where you want the first photo.

 

4)  Hit the "+" on the thumbnail.

 

5) Rinse and repeat steps 3 and 4 as needed.