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Lets replace all that missing info....

What are the most successfull methods of treenailing and/or making treenails?

 

On my AVS being 1:48 scale, I could have fabricated and installed treenails, but opted for "False Treenails" using elmers wood filler in drilled holes. For a darker contrast on the walnut, I added some india ink to the walnut colored filler.

For the deck planks I used a #78 drill which converts to about 1.0" diameter and the hull I used .7mm which converts to aprox 1.5" diameter full scale.

 

I've decided for myself that any scale smaller than 1:64 is not worth the effort of doing treenails.

 

I do plan to do fabricated and installed treenails in my future build of AL Independence scale 1:36

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Treenails?  Some folks do it your way.  Some actually do treenails from bamboo or other woods.  Others simulate with a pencil or even a hypodermic needle.  and then there's those that don't do them.  :)

 

I'm one who prefers 1:64 and probably won't be treenailing.

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Im a fan of actual wooden treenails and I use toothpicks (not bamboo, but regular wood, because it is better looking). One toothpick is used for one treenail, which I found the best - easy handling,  time saving and still not expensive. For 1:64 scale I use .4mm drill and it is also vital to sharpen each toothpick and possibly even dye it to make the treenail visible.

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I was going to use drawplates and created a few "prototypes" of .4mm thickness using microdrill and fine sanding paper, but even though I used tough bamboo toothpicks, they were too fragile to be forced into such small holes and I also had to sharpen them. 

 

So finally after some effort with bamboo I decided to use wooden toothpicks (I bought two 1000 piece packs, to there is plenty of them to ruin :) and sand them using microdrill and the following proxxon bit to create a fine and long spike. It looks like a hell of a job, but once you learn how to do it, it is quite fast and easy. 

 

post-506-0-54444900-1362043735.jpeg

 

Then I stained each spike with walnut mordant. It is vital to let them dry thoroughly, otherwise they will break once pushed into the tiny holes. And finally, using white glue, I created whole lines of treenails, let the glue dry and cut off the toothpicks. 

 

I also found that wooden toothpicks are also much more easy to cut off than bamboo ones, so the only disadvantage is that they did not come with fine spikes, but otherwise they are much better. 

 

 

Treenails in the following pictures are in .4mm holes and planks are 3 mm wide (HMS Fly, scale 1:64)

 

post-506-0-03044300-1362044322_thumb.jpg

these are actually still bamboo toothpicks

 

post-506-0-57430200-1362044323_thumb.jpg

these are finished treenails made of wooden toothpicks

Edited by vths

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I've used Liberon wax filler sticks used in furniture repair. It's really easy to apply and wipe off. These wax fillers come in a lot of shades so it's easy to achieve the right level of difference from the wood of the planks, and provides a subtle effect. I had this tip from Daniel when he was on MSW 1.0 but I've seen a few others do this as well. I did try melting it into the holes but it turned out to be just as easy to scrape a few fragments off and wipe them into the holes.

 

Tony

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with the tooth picks:

 

take a little metal plate and drill a hole in it with the same drill you use to make the holes in the planks. now look at the bottom side, the will be a little bit of metal sticking out. if you now push the toothpick in on that side and turn it round a bit you make, much faster than sanding, the axact right diameter for about 4 mm which is sufficient for sticking it in.

 

I usually however don't even do that just stick the pick in as far as it goes with a little glue.

 

for darker wood I often use chestnut thorns.

 

Best,

Michiel

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The above toothpick method reminds me of a similar method that was described.

 

Drill a hole sized to the treenail diameter in the center of a brass dowel, to the depth you want for treenail length.

 

Secure the brass dowel in a drill.

 

While the drill is spinning, insert toothpicks or other wood to shave away excess material and create treenails.

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For treenails imitation I use bamboo or birch toothpicks. Openings for nails of 0,5 mm in the deck were drilled by means of the conductor from a brass plate. 

post-215-0-33978000-1363897972.jpg

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For imitation of nails the toothpicks which ends are pierced to diameter 0,5мм by means of a drill and the adaptation in the form of the brass cylinder with a flat bottom thickness 3мм on which center the opening by diameter 0,5мм is drilled are used. All these operations are done before installation of decks

on the hull.

post-215-0-77461300-1363898071.jpg

Edited by Garward

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I use a draw plate to make my treenails from wood.  And, in my experience, the Jim Byrnes draw plate is the only way to go for this.  Previously I had a draw plate purchased from MicroMark, which was greatly inferior, and impossible to use for drawing down to the smaller sizes.

 

Cheers,

Robert

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I also use a drawplate. I usually use bamboo for my treenails. The Byrnes plate is the best I have used. I have others, bt for the medium to small treenails, that is one I use.

 

Russ

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To process or not treenails to diameter of openings in the deck - depends on a ratio of hardness of wood of the deck and treenails.  If hardness is close, it is better to process (an example - Montanes). 

If the deck flooring is made of firm wood, it is possible not to process treenails. In the Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron model a deck flooring - the Brazilian maple (has some more names) the dense, firm wood close on color and properties to boxwood. Because of its hardness it is a pleasure to insert birch toothpicks: the conic part of a toothpick "is easily screwed in" in openings, after opening cleaning well keep a form.

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Just a note - while reading this topic  I thought it would be good to have a look at as many photographs as I could of actual ships decks .

That was because I realised that I actually couldnt remember  any greatly visible nailing on the deck of any  sailing vessel I have been on.

 

 

My look up showed that I was right  -  looking through my pics and doing a web image search - on decks the nails mostly dont show (plugged ?) - try the picture search for yourself.

 

Where one does see the nailing is on models .

 

I must declare my position though -  I am a great advocate of tree nails on models - they look nice whether or not they correspond with reality!

Edited by SpyGlass

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Hi, Geoff ! The excellent photos showing that is visible on a surface of a deck flooring in installation sites of nails  :) !

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Unfortunately I've lost the photos I took of the deck of HMS Gannet, a Victorian sloop of 1878 at Chatham Dockyard (I was interested precisely in the treenails as well as the details of the hanging of ropes). However, I attach the copy of the photo from their website of the forecastle deck.

 

This shows that on this ship at least you can see the treenail sites, or rather the plugs quite easily. However, the colour of the plug matches that of the deck, albeit the plugs are a bit lighter. In real life, rather than in a photo, the plugs are even more distinct. So, as has been said before, it seems important to match the colour of the treenail site to that of the deck, and maybe to allow a ring to show round the plug (although no ring was visible on this ship's plugs).

 

I am sure others will have pictures of Victory or other ships that will add to the discussion, though.

 

Tony

 

post-229-0-03727700-1364056656.jpg

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Well there are many pics where the plugs appear to match very very well and are invisible and on the working vessels I have been on the caps merge in well - usualy cut from the same timber I presume

 

But it gives the modeller a choice which is always nice. 

 

Mind I challenge anybody to model the "sealant " ring around the cap from Constitution above.

 

Pic of plank endings on Earl of Pembroke  - spot the caps - (and a lovely joint on the cap rail)

post-905-0-67558900-1364058679_thumb.jpg

Edited by SpyGlass

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Photo of my colleague Arthur from Montreal (it too builds models of the sailing ships) : the plugs on the brig deck Niagara.

post-215-0-40296800-1364058887_thumb.jpg

post-215-0-53355300-1364058897_thumb.jpg

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A Jim Byrnes drawplate works better than other drawplates because it is designed to cut wood.  Jeweler's drawplates on the other hand are designed to compress metal as it is pulled through them.

 

Just some trivia that some may find useful.  Before I knew any better I had purchased a jeweler's drawplate and thought that they were all the same.  Got one of Jim's now.

 

Jeff Hayes

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Magnificent!! they just accentuate the straight and precise cuts of all the rest of your timber.

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Magnificent!! they just accentuate the straight and precise cuts of all the rest of your timber.

 

Yes, it is very beautiful model.

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wow, beautiful work. I assume the holes are filled with coloured putty.  I have tried this technique myself but when I filled the holes I got putty between my planking. 

 

 
No, here it wasn't used coloured putty.
The plugs imitating nails, are made of wood by means of a needle for a medical syringe.

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Garward

Would it be possible for you to demonstrate the technique, on how you make the treenails with the needle, how to prep the needle and how they are inserted.

We had a thread on this on the old MSW I believe from Woodeater.

thanks

Tom

Edited by twintrow

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