clearway
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Thankyou Daniel, intriguing Keith and it might help explain why upon refitting to the 1839 plans terror and Erebus ended up with a bridge and a pedestal to mount the compass on. I suspect there should be another compass for the helmsman as well and the portable Royal navy one we were discussing what feels like centuries ago could be very likely. I was just thinking guys that we might be the first people (along i imagine with Matthew Betts) to seriously look into the ice bridge / compass conundrum since 1845? keith -
That is a very good point Keith - they also seem absent on the "our friend the pitcher" drawing. 🤪🤨🤪- ouch my friend you are still stuck in the airport!!!!! Keith
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Thanks for the input Craig and certainly can't be ruled out. I have been looking at the owen stanley pics of Terror and Erebus again and noticed a couple of things. it shows the two skid beam support posts and what looks like a diagonal rod going from the bridge end to the support post. Also the davit arms are held by halliards leading to the mizzen aka hms victory davit style. Regards the handrail will stick with a single row of stanchions with rope handrails and iron rod supports either side of midships. Take care all Keith
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Thanks for the likes, comments and looking in folks. Craig i would like to thank you for your input (they do say a fresh pair of eyes looking at a problem works wonders). Also thanks to Keith S (we are getting there Keith)! Had a play about recreating the azimuth compass column (thanks again Craig, have been trying to figure out for two years what that column was for, as they say "say what you see"... it was all there)! Bad part is that skid beam i put in 3 mm too far has come back to bite me😬 so will have to put the hole in the table forward of centre....... Now how long to make that bridge! Take care all Keith P.S.Keith B i have been chuckling at this comment for a couple of days now "Lord Kelvin invented his compensating balls" God bless school boy humour🤣
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Thanks everyone- looks like my table is getting a hole in it!!!! I have been thinking if the post is for a pelorus that is mounted on top of the post, someone standing on the bridge will be able to get his line of sight and shout down to helmsman "mark" while also communicating with navigators at the table? The bridge will be just as good as the top of the table for observing and if someone said to me "stand on that table and take bearings" while at sea i would be court martialled for offensive language 😁 Keith
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No problem Daniel- now the fun really begins muahahahahaha🤪- Keith and i might have the ice bridge sorted out (with a little help) by the time you get to it! Keith
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Thanks Daniel and Keith B , who would have thought a compass and plank of wood could have caused so much debate😁. Also it is great to see my other long suffering Terror compadre back on the scene after his long break . Keith
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i was thinking along them lines Keith as there is a bloody great steam engine right below them, that is one reason i was going to mount a binnacle on the elevated bridge but it really is too narrow so the post could be for mounting the compass and pedestal on, but still seems odd putting it through the middle of a table ....ahhh the conundrum of our little Terrors continues😎 You will see a raised platform on the old steamers, ocean liners and warships which was to keep the compass away from the ironwork, later they used magnets to offset the effect of the iron/ steel work. Keith
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I am thinking along them lines as well Keith but does seem a bit bizarre having a long post like that going through a table but hey we are dealing with Terror and Erebus here! I am sooooooo glad i didnt belay the main braces yet because they will definitely get in the way. ouch at being stuck in airport m8. Keith
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You could maybe have the door open slightly and roll up bits of cigarette paper to imitate the charts😇. How does the Azimuth compass box compare to yours size wise? Keith
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should be intersting but it should be o.k. as the other keith and i have hammered out a lot of details and of course the awesome work Matthew Betts put in to his research which along with Keith s log kick started my build (i still hold you personally to blame Keith S)😁. If you havnt already obtained his book i would obtain a copy. Keith
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Thanks for the likes, comments, views everyone. I have now finished the main wooden supports for the bridge and am sticking with it😜. Though still in the air about full length or shortened bridge itself (not sure if way too big but added a box for azimuth compass to the table). Also temp fitted a couple of pieces of 0.9mm brass rod to bridge which if sticking with metal supports will be cut to proper length and blackened. Onto something different and have never been happy with the set up on the starboard deck house (W.C.) and after seeing the plans thought Kudos Keith s you were bang on, are you going to add the map locker door keith as it was missing when you made yours based on the wreck photo? I very carefully "tickled" it with a flat bladed screwdriver and thankfully came away without bringing half the deck with it (god bless inferior wood glue)! Still needs tidied up, sanded and varnished, i used slightly different types of veneer strip to create contrast between panels and framing with brass planking pins for the door handles. Take care all Keith
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Hi Richard ahhh the early stages before Keith s and myself started with the brainaches😁, as we are talking iron sheathing as opposed to copper plating on the bows you will get away with just adding nails to the outer edge. Keith
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Lol keith trust me i have been tempted to walk away as well m8. Back to the great plank debate of 2022🤨, while the 1839 plans do show an outboard support post which is what i was going to go with originally, the plan drawing in matthew Betts book clearly shows them mounted inboard more or less in the manner i have depicted. Now you know why (as stated in my log) i have been waiting till Matthews book came out before starting on the ice bridge😁. As we have found out if it is on the official 1839 refit plans things were altered i.e. davits. Keith P.S. that isnt the final bits of the ice bridge, i will be adding supports either side of the azimuth compass table (wood or iron i havnt decided yet) along with a compass on a column either both sides of the bridge or one infront of the bridge and another to the starboard side of the wheel (beside skylight) for the helmsman.
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My m8 at work was going to buy a load of bitcoin around 10 years ago but didnt and has been kicking himself ever since. On the other hand i have checked the plans in matthew betts book and not really that far out , the support posts are where he has them but the stern most skid beam should be around 3mm or so farther back, but i can live with it. Keith
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Psst Craig my dad is also called Keith! Dont forget the plans show Erebus, i do have the stern most davit post a little too far forward but also i should have double checked the ply occre bulwarks ( think the ports are a little too far towards the stern). Matthews plans show inboard supports on his 1845 plan view so will stick with them. I suppose this is a case of hindsight is a wonderful thing! keith
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Back with the much debated bridge (and Craig we dont need more Keiths as we have already been confusing people for two years now)😁. I have started on the two supports for the bridge and will stick with this arrangement unless anyone dives down on the wreck site and posts photographs to the contrary😜 (based the arrangement on the plan view from the terror book). Still in the air regards length/ sections etc but here is how it looks at the moment. Take care all Keith
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Craig, as far as i can make out the support joins to the knee supporting the skid beam though that would throw it way out of line to join in with the outboard upright- Matthews plans show the support leading to a support inboard as far as i can tell. Interesting speculation about the binnacle stand and certainly looks like a binnacle stand with the fluted post... The joy of Terror speculation continues! Keith
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Having worked on fishing boats in the irish sea i can see where Keith B is coming from, however i agree with Craig and think the outer "wings" were just used when navigating through the ice pack- i have left the four cross timbers joining the planks wide enough to accommodate another plank giving 3' width if needed (will trim back to length if needs be). Another thought i had which Craig touched on is was the bridge in two halves? would explain why there is room for 2 bridges one behind the other. You Have to respect Matthew Betts for the fun he must have had researching her for his model! Also got into work this morning and found this had been delivered yesterday. Take care all Keith
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Oh yes Keith two years on and Terror still playing with us! , i didnt camber the skid beams and now wish i had but didnt want to bring attention to the lack of deck camber, The plan there i think shows the actual skid beam as opposed to bridge , however my bridge is a scale 6" thick so pretty robust😁. Keith
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thanks for the likes, comments and looking in everyone, both other Keiths might be right regards salvaging/ burning the bridge (i have also heard about her having to be sailed into her final anchorage as it would be impossible for her to drift there with the pack/ current, there are accounts also of the crew of Erebus hastily stripping her of supplies while was was settling in the water on her way to the bottom). Been playing around with the experimental bridge again and have temp fitted stanchions to the longer length bridge, if i go with the shorter version it will be truncated just outside of the 2nd stanchion from the outer edge on each side. Got to admit i am enjoying getting onto something that dos not involve rigging after all these months, and keep the opinions coming! Take care all Keith Keith
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Thanks for the input guys, day off work + rain = shipyard time😁. Been playing around with the bridge again, i am thinking whatever length i will just fit single ball stanchions with a rope handrail on the forward edge (i think this would be easier to remove when having to get the whaleboats off the skids). First pic shows plan view of bridge with dimensions off the plans this pic shows shorter ice bridge using Owen Stanleys sketches as a guestimate third view shows a view trying to emulate view of Erebus by Owen Stanley with shorter bridge left in place Take care all and to quote Robert plant in the song Dymaker "wheres that confounded bridge"..... got to be in the wreck site debris fields somewhere!!! Keith
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true enough Keith , however when you see most polar exploration ships they all have some sort of ice bridge along with the ubiquitous barrel for the mast top look out., maybe ice bridge was to observe smaller bergs and growlers closer to the ship? There was a documentary filmed in 2019 about a contest entered by 23 yachts to sail the north west passage from east to west and think it was called journey to the edge. All but two gave up and one of those become beset and sank, it was quite an eye opener and shows despite all our modern innovations the one thing the captain relied upon was reports from the lookouts port/ starboard/ bows and mast head regards avoiding aforementioned bergs and growlers. Keith
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Thanks Keith B, i am thinking along the same lines myself but tried them the length according to the drawing just to see, The other option i am thinking is were they somehow extendable thus giving you a more compact working bridge which could be extended when needed to spot leads in the ice pack? Keith
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Thanks for the likes, comments and looking in everyone and hope we three Keiths arnt causing too much confusion! I have finally finished belaying and coiling the ropes going to the bow pin rails which only leaves the jib/stay sail sheets to rig to the cleats and the anchors to stow in the bow area. Using matthews plans as a guide i have jury rigged a 40 feet x 2 feet ice bridge just to get a feel of how it will look, thinking maybe a scale 3 feet would be better as it does look really skinny! Take care all Keith
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