dafi

Thank you Sirs, very appreciated, just trying my best, sometimes it works out fine :-) As we had in interesting discussion in Kevins build log, my curiosity was drawn to the storage of the spare spars and the fore stun´ sail booms. #468 So I took my spare Vic to check the spare spar businesses ... Plenty of sources state that the spare spares were stowed over the waist, but what does this mean place wise? Something I always suspected, that those two half rounds in the rail at the front were to support those ... ... but I never really realised the openings in the aft rail. Like this the main and the fore topmasts fit in properly. (Note: the main could be moved back a tiny bit still) According to Goodwin in Nelsons Ships the Vic received spare topmasts and booms in between the 15 and 19th of April 1778 Also to be seen, the main and fore yards on the gangways are far to long. As they were made yards, can it be that they were still taken apart? This also means, that the middle boat most possibly was sitting on the spars. And on the last one I still added the fore stun´ sail booms to check out this length too PS: There still is the smallest boat missing, it would sit port aft. Cheers, DAniel

Thank you Mark for ruining my night - so no block-buster TV but reading about potty-stories ;-) Thanks Frankie for your kind words, there still so many exciting corners on those ships waiting to be explored :-) Also Lavery in Arming and Fitting gives nice details about the **** dales and other fittings. According to that source, Admiral and Captain had each both galleries for their personal use, in the wardroom one side was for the first lieutenant and the other side for the remaining officers. The roundhouse had different assignments. First both sides for the junior officers and the commissioned officers who did not have access to the wardroom. Later about 1815 when the sick berth was already placed behind the beakhead bulkhead, the larbord one was for the mates, midshipmen, and warrent officers and the starbord one for the sickbay. The thesis Mark gave mostly just deals with the construction and the timely introduction. Some interesting features were mentioned. http://nautarch.tamu...ts/simmons.html The side shelves (small cabins on or under the main channels: About the numbers of man compared to the amount of people The roundhouses And this one I found the most amusing: Daniel

I did not see the hint yet, but apparently one can buy another bed and add to the length. As I have it too, I can tell that the Proxxon 27028 Drill chuck with spindle is a good addition, as it allows to make great centered holes into round materials. Daniel

As usual well resaerched and wonderfully explained :-) Thanks Evan! The storage of the stun´ sail boom is interesting, as far as I know, it is believed the Vic had the one on the main channels permanently fixed and the fore was stowed with the spare spars and just hooked in into an eyebolt in between fore channel and cathead if needed. The reasons are the same as Marquardt sttes: the handling of the anchors. I am not sure, but werent the fore stun´ sails the ones that were put out first? Could this be the reason to have this one fitted on the Constitution? All the best, Daniel

Great work as ususal :-) Just the irons on the anchor stocks are a little thick, try the 0,25 mm x 1 mm Evergreen or even cardboard :-) Daniel

So we are coming closer to my questions: I think it was Cuck showing some tubing on the head of the HMS Winchelsea (1764) The same is seen on a french model (Royal Louis?) Louterbourg did a drawing of Queen Charlotte in the harbour as a sketch for his painting "Glorious first of June" Funny enough, he shows some explicit quite flimsy tubing from the roundhouses downwards, which also ended up on the final drawing. Question 1: As I never saw this before, could this be a harbor fitting, as the cleaning of the waves was missing? (And accidentally ending up on a painting of a high sea action?) Question 2: Which were the ranks to use the roundhouses? Non commissioned officers? Question 3: Were there also ropes trailing the water on the heads for cleaning reasons? Qustion 4: How were the upper seats in the quarter Gallery discharged? Wooden chute or led tubes downwards? Thank you for your attention for a smelly topic of ill reputation, Daniel

Not included in the calculation are the roundhouses for the lower officers ... ... and the quarter galleries for the higher ranks ... ... and the uncounted amount of buckets all over the decks for days with bad waether - Bucket and chuck-it :-) In the quarter galleries the places were nicely defined who had his own seating place with a view and who had to share. This already showed in the layout of the bulkheads dividing the officers mess. On drawings of the early dutch, plenty of tassels are hanging on different locations on the heads and the galleries: To clean bums and buckets? (Thanx for Pollux for the pics) On the Victory in Portsmouth one still can see an armchair on display with build in potty for the eminences on board. To get all the merde away from the structural parts, there was a small chute or some tubes. Here the slide of my Vic: Also great the build-in waterflushing - every good wave counts ... Also for some time, there were small cabins on the main channels, that I can´t imagin any other reason for.

As an introduction to some shxtty questions of mine I would like to recapitulate some thoughts that I already showed in my building report. It started with bringing the seats of ease into the right proportions. In the front the one delivered with the kit, behind some better proportions. Now they are even big enough for two backsides side by side without the danger of being trailed for sodomy ;-) And in summer even with the shade of a cosy mariners walk. This lead me to some small intriguing thoughts ... ... with 800 men crew and 6 seats we get this optimized calculation: 800 men (NCO) / 6 seats gives 133 men/seat In a optimized 24 hours use using all seats we get the following numbers: 24 hours = 1440 minutes 1440 minutes / 133 men = 10,5 minutes/man per day. This means no second wasted and the next user always stand by. If you take account of that not the whole day it is possible to have this steady usage because of time, scedules and weather, the usage time per person sinks dramatically. If I remember well, constipation was widely spread, which leads to longer men mean residence time. So the conclusion is, that the heads, regarding the weather, daytime and service schedule, could possibly be a quite crowded place at certain moments. This account only includes the "big business". There still would be some persons too to be expected at the heads for the "small business", if they are not preferring hanging out in the shrouds (leewards): One hand for the ship and one hand for yourself - now that line is finally understood. A quick research in German Law and regulations indicates the following: Puplic Law of the State of lower Saxony defines that for a leisure event of 800 visitors the calculation should be: 800:100 x 0,8 = 7 seated toilets and 800:100 x 1,2 = 10 urinals (always rounded) The Law of Working Spaces "Arbeitsstätten-Richtlinie, ArbStätt 5.037.1, vom 26. Juni 1976 (ArbSch. 9/1976 S. 322)" defines that for 250 employes one needs 10 seated toilets and 10 urinals, that means more than double for 800 employees. In a converse argument that leads to the conclusion: For a working place the ship should have 5 times more seated toilets and this leads to - that by the number of seats - the ship must be a leisure event - Join the Navy - see the better world! Sehr geehrter Gruß, Ihr treuergebener Diener most sincerely, your humble servant, dafi

I I am not mistaken the fore boom is hooked into a ringbolt in between the cathead and the fore channel and is stowed with the spare spars in the waist. Like this you do not interfere the anchors too much. Much more interested where the downholding tackles were fixed. Ringbolt beside a gunport? Gunport itself? XXXDAn

Look at these photographs :-) HMS Marlborough/Göthebourg/Plover with Jibs used as stun´sails :-)

Looking forward to it! And this topic is even something one can get a prize for :-) http://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ipmsstockholm.se%2Fhome%2Fmanadens-modellbyggare-februari%2F The winner was: 8. Jonas Dalberg, warship Sword in scale 1/100, 72 points Daniel

Great to see things moving!!! Love it, Daniel

ROFL!!! THAT is so true!!! Daniel

Yes, it was standard procedure to lash up the stun sail booms, as they were in the way http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/127895.html XXXDAn

Thank you, the compliment was some 800 excluding officers. But wasn´t it during the day times, when no hammocks were in use? Have to make a rough estimate once home how many hammocks could be provided using this pattern. Daniel

Here we go, just fixed the first version of the cranes, nettings and hammocks in my report: #335 As I always see this as a chance to try out things and to use it to verify the results here the thoughts that arose: The thickness of the hammock is orientated onto the films of the US navy of 1915 which should be near the RN-results. The crane has exactly the double of the thickness of the hammock, so this too makes sense respectively the U-shape bending of the hammock. The question that was asked in my german forum is: Is this correct as there is faaaaaar less then 800 hammocks fitting onto the decks. The fo´castle has 35 each side in this version. Where were the other ones stowed? Daniel

Thank you Mark, B.E., Robin and Popeye :-) Very appreciated! Yes Popeye, those are the cranes from my own etch part series (some subliminal advertising) :-) These are even not painted but only blackened using the normal Krick blackener. I use this one on all the brass parts (apart from assembly instructions) as it provides a good base for painting and avoids shiny gaps where the color did not end up. All the best, Daniel

... and the most tricky, cleaning up the top edge with some fine and sharp nail scissors - without cutting the top rope! Looks intriguing enough :-) And another fascinating task, painting the hammocks using my beloved casein paints with all kind of whiter shades of pale ... ... looking if the colors work if hidden behind the netting ... ... some differentiation with some more different shades of ochre ... ... put in place ... ... gently and pushed in :-) Fascinating! And as you see on the left - the Tic-Tac would not fit in :-) Good night and sleep well, Daniel

So far so good, but the next part was a bit scary ... ... you remember, on the heads and in the fighting tops I already tried some netting. But it was quite ridgit and I knew not what would come out now. So put the gaze into a cardboard frame ... ... and painted nicely with beige, added some plain white and dirtied it with very diluted black ink. Easy to see how the appearance became more homogenous. Then did a test fit and realised how the holes got stuck on the hammock cranes ... ... but it looked ok so far. Some test handling on the outside ... ... proved that the netting should curl outside instead of inside. Then introduced some papers as introduction help and introducing the netting was no subject of getting stuck any more :-) Got the front paper out, adjusted the height towards the rope ... ... and glued with CA the netting onto the rope . Then used the hammocks to press down the netting ... ... pulled out the back paper and also the hammocks, used pincers to hold rope and netting together and used CA to fix. Then cut the side length ...

Great idea, just make sure, that the legs wont flip in while working! XXXDAn

Hello Popeye and Kevin, the height is 1,5 mm, the thickness is 0,2 mm :-) Yes there were on the stern too: #296 And here the ones from Royal George', that sank in 1782: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/63420.html http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/102769.html XXXDAn

Thank you Lawrence, "seam to apply them so easily" it just seems so, I already was breaking my mind for some months with this topic before I started working and still things came out totally different than expected - even not to mention the affair with "Kevins wabbits beans". It is always a bit of a darkride like typing some unknown numbers of a telefonbook and making the best out of the conversations that comes along ... The marks are 1,5 mm in hight :-) All the best, Daniel

Thank you Grant and Eddie, I promise to not spoil you with my cakes ;-) The good thing on such a complex model is, if you do not have too much time, there is always a small corner that fits to the time slot :-) XXXDAn

No Kevin, the netting is just omitted until now as it is the last thing to be fixed for modeling reasons. It is always there, with hammocks, without (as seen in Portsmouth) and even when the protecting covers are over the hammock cranes. XXXDAn

Thank you Antispiral, B.E., Dan, Popeye and Mark :-) But the starter came out fast and swift and afterwards the hammocks looked much more tidy, especially on the bottom :-) XXXDAn PS: The cranes are bend open for easier handling and black lines of the lashing are mere orientation for me and are not meant to stay.