wefalck

Iron materials (cast iron, steel, wrought iron, etc.) had to be kept under paint for obvious reasons ... In the Prussian/German navy muzzle-loading guns were scraped bright and then washed with vinegar resulting in a light surface rust consisting or iron-oxyhydroxides and iron-acetates. This 'rust' was solidified by rubbing the barrels with lineseed oil, effectively creating in situ a brownish oil-paint. The procedure was repeated from time to time and in between the barrels were washed and then rubbed again with lineseed oil. The inside of the barrel was kept bright. When breech-loaders were adopted in the early 1860s this practice was discontinued, as the vinegar would deteriorate the machined surfaces on the barrel and the lock. The brownish colour of the muzzle-loaders then was mimicked by painting the barrels in brown oil-paint. From the 1890s on, when warships became grey, it was paint over everything that did not need to be bright for mechanical reasons. The mechanical machine guns, such as the Hotchkiss and Gatling revolving guns and mitraillieuses by Nordenfeldt and Palmcrantz were other examples of bright metal until the 1890s. In the case of e.g. Hotchkiss revolving gun the frame was cast bronze and left bright, the housing of the mechanism was cast-iron and painted, while the barrels were blued in good gun-smith tradition. Mounting brackets and other details were also bronze and kept bright. In the 1890s all that disappeared under paint.

According to my mid-19th to early 20th century textbooks on ship construction, there are many different types of rivets, depending on the location and the type of ship. There is a big difference also between naval ships, where tax payers' money didn't seem to matter too much and appearance was important, and commercial ships that had to generate a return on investment. Below is image of SS ROBIN in London and one can clearly see the rivetting on the hul: On naval ships and above the waterline, often countersunk rivets (as noted by Dr PR) were used on the hull. These would be basically invisible on a model no matter what scale. Countersunk rivets require a certain thickness of plating in order to be safe, so on the thinner superstructure plating you would have to use the typical dome-shaped rivets. Initially, when iron-shipuilding was a new technology, engineers tended to err on the safe side (though the technology as such was developed for boiler construction much ealier). As the decades progress and materials testing technology was developed, such as machines to test the tensile strength of rivets, they became more confident and rivets and their heads could be made smaller. However, the choice of rivets and rivetting was not an engineers whim, but prescribed from a certain time on by the ship classification and underwriters' societies, such as Lloyds of London, Bureau Veritas, or the Germanic Lloyd. On structural elemens and plating the aspects of rivets may also slightly vary depending on which side you are looking at. Below is an image of a German gun-boat built in 1876. Photographs show that hull on the outside was perfectly smooth, but you can clearly see the round rivet heads on the inside of the bulwark plating, the reinforcement strips behind seams, and the stanchions rivetted together from plate:

Acrylic gel would be an alternative to white glue. It shrinks less. Hand-placing the dots in regular patterns would be challenge - at least for my hands. I have contemplated making a sort of crude version of ink-jet printer for this: a syringe that squeezes a defined amount of gel onto the surface by moving the plunger forward with a kind lead-screw. The material to be 'rivetted' would need to by mounted on a x-y-table for positioning. In this way and using ink-jet printer decal-sheets one could make one's own customised rivet decals. On my on-going project I have pre-marked the rivet points on the gun-carriage with the laser-cutter, when I cut the parts from thick paper. These slight depressions catch the acrylic gel and allowed me to create reasonably regular rivetting patterns.

Depending on type of ship and era, there may have been quite a bit of bright metal-work on real ships. Metal was left bright, where it would have been impractical to cover it in paint, because the paint would have been worn off by e.g. ropes. At other places the paint would impair the function, e.g. on breech-loading guns. And at other places it had purely decorative function, say on yachts. So it would be historically correct to show bright metal, where it was bright metal on the prototype. Keeping the metal bright was a way to keep crews occupied, particularly on navy ships. Keeping metal bright on a model is not so easy, as brass and copper tarnish quickly. The classical way is to brush it with what is called zapon-varnish.

Nice to see a project here on this Ancre monograph. I had the opportunity to see the original (I mean the model) LOUISE at the big model exhibition organised by the Association des Amis du Musée de la Marine (AAMM) in Rochefort in October 2018. A splendid model. I have completed a few months ago a manuscript for a three part series of articles on 'Boating on the Seine in the Age of Impressionism' for the German quarterly Das LOGBUCH. The first part is with the printers. The third part on sailing will appear in autumn. As a matter of fact, I live about 12 km away from Argenteuil ... The Bassin d'Argenteuil is not the part upstream of the railway bridge of Argenteuil, but the stretch of the river below, reaching down to Bougival, where the weir is located that created the bassin. The area between Argenteuil and Bezons has been quite industrialised already at the time in question. After all, this is where the Caillebotte family made their money, which allowed Gustave and his brother to live the life of gentlemen of leisure (though the Caillebottes still looked after their business), leaving behind a signifcant cultural footprint in sailing (Gustave was a founding member of the French sailing club), painting and art collection (Gustave's collection was the seed to what is now the Musée d'Orsay in Paris), and philately (the Caillebotte collection became after their sale by the brothers the core of the philately department of the British Museum in London). Chatou was one of the focal points of the rowing and sailing activities on the Seine. Remember Renoir's 'Lunch of the Rowers' / 'Dejeuner des canotiers' ? It was painted there on the balcony of the Maison Fournaise, a popular restaurant. Today, there is a museum in part of the building. Next door to it, there is the boat-house of the Association Sequana (https://sequana.org/), which has 'clipper' and a copy of one of the boats Caillebotte designed, had built in his own yard, and sailed on the river. I am looking forward to the development of this project !

These tablets were/are(?) very common in engineering and science contexts. In art and illustration they probably have now been replaced by iPads that are available in larger sizes for such pruposes. Designers of animations for films and computer games also used such graphics tablets. I got a cheapo one, but then found out that I couldn't get the driver for it on my Mac ... now I am using my iPad with the stylo for drawing. Some of the tablets could also be used for digitsing purposes. You put your graphics or whatever onto the tablet and then trace it with the pen. Today I would scan the item, put the image into one layer and then trace it in another layer.

That makes you appreciate the skills of 'real' boatbuilders, I guess. I gather you marked out the various plank width around the main beam (didn't bother to go back in the log to check) ? I am asking this, because I have the feeling that your planks should already begin to be wider in the middle, so that the planks do not become to wide once you are getting to the chine. Looking down the planks run sweet and easy, but when you look sideways, I feel that you might be getting too many planks at the stem. Or you will have to work with stealers around the chine. Stealers would be an obvious geometric solution, but not so ideal from a strength point of view. The chine will be an area with a lot of stress, the boat may bump against the jetty, the nets will run against it etc. etc.

Are you sure, you got your numbers right re. the ballast ? If all the ballast was water, you would need a volume of 650 dm^3 / 30 / 30 / 30 = 24 cm^3 at 1:30 scale or 24 g. Granit or gneiss, the predominant rocks in your part of the world, would have a bulk density of around 2.7 g/cm^3, which reduces to something like 2 g/cm^3 or less for loose rock. In other words you would need about 12 cm^3 space for the balast in the model.

Of course I also had one of those wooden toy sets. Otherwise I am not sure what came first. Probably the the Märklin construction set (the German version of Meccano), which did have a screw-driver and a spanner. Otherwise, when I was about seven or eight so my dad got fed up with me sneaking to his tool cabinet and I got a boxed tool-set for Christmas. I still have it and use some of the tools regularly, such as the fret- and hack-saw for instance. That means some 57 years of use. When we had to clear out my parents' house a few years ago, I took many of my das's old tools and some that originally even belonged to his dad in his navy times, I believe. Some of the tools look, as if they came out of set my father got, when he was a boy.

This has nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread, but I would second Allan's point. You may use copyrighted material in an 'educational' context in the sense that you can use images etc. in a lecture. Giving the slides in electronic format or as hand-outs to your students or pupils could be borderline, but is accepted practice. In order to use copyrighted material in formal publications (journals, books) requires the permission of the authors or the copyright-holders. I have been repeatedly in the bizarre situation wanting to re-use some graphics I drew for reports when being an UN staffer many years ago, that I had to ask the UN organisation for permission to do so. Although reading through posts may be educational, an Internet-forum is not an educational undertaking in the sense of the copyright. I guess using occasionally small snippets from graphics in a book etc. to illustrate a point would in most cases not violate the copyright and the economic interests of the copyright holder. At least not to a degree that would justify legal action. One could indeed argue that it may raise interest in obtaining (legally) the whole publication. The above applies to original artwork and other material that can be copyrighted. There is a bit of grey zone for material on which in principle the copyright has expired because the original copyright holder has been deceased for a certain minimum period that varies from country to country. Here in Europe it is 70 years and in the US 90 years I believe. Museums and archives holding these items may claim to have the copyright, because they have an economic interest in selling copies or licenses to use these copies.

... what did people do in those dark pre-Internet ages - experiment You didn't say, what the thickness of the material in question is, so answers can only be guesses. Clipping pieces off is likely to distort/squash the wood, so I would not clip too close, but leave perhaps half a millimetre standing and then sand it flush. Same with a cut-off disc, stay safely away and sand flush afterwards.

Have you ever sawn acrylic glass or styrene ?

The Hyuda, like the PROXXON, seems to use non-standard size blades. It needs blades with a 10 mm bore, while the standard would be 16 mm, if I am not mistaken. As always with machines, one needs to check the availability of the respective tools.

It is difficult to say here what the chicken and what the egg is, i.e. whether there are no shrouds to allow the flexibility of the lateen or whether the lateen is so flexible because there are no shrouds. However, functionally speaking, the presence of permanently set shrouds and backstays would impair the useability and flexibility of the lateen. The nautical terminology, particularly the English/Dutch/German one, we use to day was largely developed for northern European vessels. Thus categories such as sheets or braces are not very well adapted to the operation of lateen sails. From the pictures you posted above, one can see that there are various 'ropes' with with one can control the position of a lateen. In general the points at which these are belayed or fastened are not fixed, but can be moved around to suit the needs of the moment. The lateen can be used before the wind almost like a square sail, turning a sheet into a brace etc. If there were shrouds this would be difficult or would take a long time to arrange or dangerous.

We are talking here about two different maritime histories and tradtions that at some point began to merge, recognising each other's advantages and trying to take the most appropriate from both. Mediterranean (and Arab) vessels originally do not seem to have had permanently set shrouds and stays. Mast for the lateen or settee sails could be quite short, but had to be stout and were firmly set into mainly heavy hulls mainly built skeleton-first. Backstays or shrouds (in this case there is no clear distinction) were set 'flying', connected with toggles to the hull and tightened by sets of pulleys. Nordic vessels used square sails and in consequence required taller masts that had to be comparatively lighter and in consequence needed stays and shrouds. Nordic vessels tended to be built lighter and shell-first. At some stage in the North the value or need of sails set up permanently for use in longitudinal direction was recognised - as long as you had a single square sail you could set it up also longitudinally, particularly when there were also flying shrouds (as in the Viking ships for instance). When the rigs in the North became heavier and needed more support, this was not possible anymore. It would interesting to speculate why the lateen was adopted (from which the gaff-sails seems to have been derived) and not a standing lug. Anyway, this led to the problem of handling a sail, that was not conceived for being set on a permanently stayed mast - hence the question: inside or outside of the shrouds. Conversely, the polaccre rig was developed in the Mediterranean to have the advantages of square sails. The mast was made longer and now needed permanent stays and shrouds, leading to the same problem with the lateen sail. I gather many vessels in that region used flying shrouds and backtays for that reason. In some areas the sling that keeps the lateen at the mast is also use as flying backstay. When going about the sail is lowered and the sling is taken to the other side and then the sail is hoisted again, sometimes after taking it around to the other side too.

Sorry, didn’t read this carefully and had these decorative tapes used in the automotive industry etc. in mind. Cheap papers can be a long-term problem because of their acidity, but otherwise the tapes of gummed kraftpaper, old-time packaging tape, are useful too.

Keith, I am rather hesitant using any kind of 'tape' permanently on a model. Plastic tape contains a high amount of plasticisers and these plasticisers over the years will evaporate, rendering the remaining plastic brittle and making it shrink and crack.

Aren't these knives with a single bevel specifically used to make the incisions for inlays ? The bevel faces towards the wood to be lifted out, while the flat does not damage the adjacent wood that remains.

Thin paper strips, perhaps wrapped in several layers, and soaked in sanding filler is another option for those iron bands.

It is probably important to make distinction between a true 'lateen' rig and using a triangular sail on an inclined yard resembling a 'lateen' sail. In a true lateen rig, there are no shrouds and no stays. The halliard serves to raise the sail and as kind of backstay. The yard is held to the mast by a sling that is operated from deck-level. In fact most of the sail operation is done from deck level - the absence of shrouds and ratlines makes getting up the mast at sea quite an adventure. On Arab ships (which did not use lateen, but 'settee' sails that had four corners) seamen went up the yard like monkeys for reefing (there is a variety of photographic and literary evidence for this). Whether the sail was swung around the mast when tacking seems to have been a question of fashion and size or type of vessel. On some smaller and shallower craft this may have been a dangerous operation. Probably still the best source on handling lateen rigs is VENCE, J. (1897): Construction & manœuvre des bateaux & embarcations à voilure latine.- 139 p., Paris (Augustin Challamel Editeur, reprint Editios Omega, Nice). Not sure whether there is a digital copy on the Internet (I own a hardcopy). On the pictures below you can see the traditional arrangement of halliard and sling, albeit with modern materials, on small boats from the Albufera lagoon south of Valencia in Spain: Own images from https://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/albufera/Boats-of-the-Albufera.html

Looks a bit like the knife that European leatherworkers and in particular shoemakers use.

Nice progress, indeed ! It seems that (pilot) boats of a similar hull form have been quite common around the Danish and Swedish waters of the Baltic. They are well-suited to the sometimes shallow waters with rocks or boulders sticking up and at the same time can carry a lot of sail (like modern sailing dinghies) due the broad beam - important for pilot boats. The museum in Helsingør has a big collection of plans, including pilot and toll boats.

Very nice indeed ! Are the rigging blocks a commercial product or home-made ! How big are they ?

Talking about sawing thin sheet-metal: many years ago I built a kind of POB model of a steam-tug by constructing the keel part and bulkheads from 0.5 mm and 0.25 mm brass sheet respectively. At that time it did not occur to me to laminate the brass onto some plywood (and I would have considered that wasteful, but was struggling even with the fine sawblades I had. I then discovered that putting the sawbladed upside down into the saw worked very well. I was joking about the copper pans in the pantry - I think one should not turn this kind of model into a floating dollhouse.

Is the joint tight and precise enough ?