vaddoc

Well, I am kind of womanising and drinking, I take out my 16 month old daughter who I absolutely adore and she sometimes shares her water with me!

Thanks guys for your support. It sure felt good working again!

Dear all

I have no free time any more, I could only steal a few moments here and there. I am not going into hibernation though, I will continue albeit at a very slow pace.

I decided against going for a test model with cheap materials, simply due to lack of time. I ll go ahead with the built and hope for the best.

The first step is to make the temporary frames. For this though I need perfectly flat 3 mm plywood which I could not find. I tried a few options but I ended up buying proper expensive modelling plywood and laminating it further to 3.5 mm. It came out flat enough.

I then started cutting the first 4 frames. They are huge!

The boat will be so huge that an A4 sheet is not wide enough to fit the frames so I had to cut and glue. I found out that on my A4 printer I can set the size of the paper. So I got a roll of paper and cut long pieces to print the various components.

I am about to place a large order for timber, I decided to use cherry for the hull, beech for the beams and laminates and maple for the planking. 

I have also decided It is about time to seriously deal with the fine wood dust so I bought a cartridge mask and I am about to order a vacuum cleaner and an air filtration system. 

Worryingly the admiral today asked me if I feel model boat building is an expensive hobby!

Just found a bit of wi fi on my vacation to check things out and my god Patrick! You should be very proud, this is such an unusual and beautiful model! Lovely work and a great journey.

This is an excellent suggestion Mark, I could just use cheap plywood and pine to see how things would come together and check the fairness of the hull prior to buying several hundreds of pounds worth of wood.

I think this is the way forward, it did not cross my mind at all.

Very grateful

Vaddoc

Dear all, time for another update. Not a lot of progress though, this boat will take a very long time to build.

I have finished designing the hull and I intended to make use of the summer to create most of the saw dust, as I can work with the garage door open. However, I have no free time, the garage is full of stuff that I need to get rid off and most importantly I still have not decided what wood to use. I have ordered samples from one of the German sites but communication has taken a very long time.

So, waiting for the wood I started designing the notches for the ribs on the wood keel, the shape of the floor timbers and started work on the bulkheads and layout of the cabin. 

I was lucky as only one of the temporary frames is in the way of a floor timber

The floor panels and bulkheads vaguely outline the interior.

My intention has been to built this in 1:10 scale, this will produce a model 70 cm long and I must admit I had not appreciated how huge it will be. Still, I think I will go for it as I have enough space and the large scale should make building much more interesting as it will more closely resemble the actual boat. I might even do some work on the interior. Such a huge model would make a nice RC boat although this is out of the question as planks on ribs would not allow watertight seal.

I am concerned though that all this work and expenses might go to waste. I have no faith in my 3d designs or my skills to pull through such a complex project. I will only know after a massive wood order and many months of hard work!

Looks very good Patrick! I like the shiny paint in that superstructure!

Now really, your hull needs also a bit of tlc and some nice gloss paint! Looks sell these boats, not seaworthiness! 

Vaddoc

This is a very impressive built Elijah. Your hull has a lovely shape and I am very impressed by your attention to detail and the thoughtful way you carry out the different tasks. Looking forward for the hull and deck planking to be completed, you are doing great.

Regards

vaddoc

On 6/13/2016 at 2:09 PM, pompey2 said:

I just received a bunch of Maple from them.

 http://www.massiv-holz-werkstatt.de/

The quality was very good, price was the most competitive I found (better than 30% of some quotes)

Delivery took a while.

This was to the UK.

 

 

Nick

How did you order Nick, through email alone or did you have to call as well?

Great project and very nice work Maury! I am working on a similar but much simpler boat and my concern has been that although CAD lofting may seem ok, still during the actual planking fairing problems or impossible angles will show up. 

I will be following with great interest. 

I think it is great having those who build masterpieces and those who put together the simplest of boats in one pot. Shows that you are competing with your self fand not with others. I love seeing my first plywood boat next to a fully framed victory. Plus, the drive seeing that the masterpieces are still made from wood by mortals is enormous.

Thank you David and Mark

I am thinking cherry for keel, sternpost and stem laminate. Maple or beech for hull planking. Ash, Beech or Birch for the steamed ribs. 

I am a bit concerned that pear at 2 mm thickness may be prone to breaking. Plus, as I have used pear a lot so far I would like to try something else.

I have ordered a few samples to have a better idea

Dear all

I am about to buy timber for my current project but I am not really sure what to use. The scale is large (1:10) and it will be carvel-built with steam bend ribs. The cost will be considerable but I can choose from a large variety of woods. 

I will use Pear for the keel, sternpost, stem and beams but I am not sure what to use for the ribs and planks.

Options (I think)

Ribs: oak, ash or beech, maybe American cherry

Hull planks: Maple, american cherry, beech, ?else

Somehow I think pear would be difficult to use for hull planks.

Could I have your thoughts and advice please?

Regards

And building a simple boat first and progressively taking on more complex projects allows one to gradually buy the truckloads of necessary and "nice to have" stuff without the admiral realising the cost. Also, one can gradually expand and occupy space in the house that otherwise would be point blank denied.

I think that the biggest problem is not just the complexity of the built but the time needed to invest. In my first two boats, on some days I could spent 7 hours building. Now, with work and familly commitments increasing I struggle to find any time at all and I am sure my current project will take years to complete. But it is a good idea to have a built log, I find it very motivating.  

I actually like my Dremel saw. It is permanently attached to my work bench with a fish tank pump attached. It cannot compare with proper scroll saws and has lots of vibrations especially if you crank the speed up but it is very cheap and has performed well for me. It is also built well. 

Your boat begs for a crazy party Patrick, bar men preparing tequila cocktails with straw umbrellas, ice cold beer and wine, waiters carrying platters of finger food and fruit salad, music…Brilliant work, really lovely!

The problem with this approach Druxey is that there will be a lot of wood to take out, and amongst all the battens and the building jig it will be very difficult to do it. I have accepted that a lot of the cutting will need to be done after the sternpost is installed but I want to try and get as much work as I can beforehand.    The scale is large and I will probably need to use power tools. I have very little confidence I will not mess the whole thing up after it's been glued to the keel!

Dear all

I now have very little time for modelling so this boat will be built at a very slow pace. Still, some progress has been made.

I managed to figure out (I think) how the sternpost will work, at least on CAD but it will be really difficult to create this very complex part in the actual boat. I made an attempt using a scrap piece of pine, it came out horrible but I now have a better understanding and I think with extra care I should be able to produce something acceptable. Quite a lot of the cutting/scraping/sanding will probably need to be done after the sternpost is erected which I expect will also be a huge challenge.

The inner skin is now faired and I have prepared the templates for all the temporary frames. I have also completed designing the transom, wood keel and the stem including all bevels and rabets. All these parts are complex and will need to be made of laminates. The following pics show an outline of the boat so far without the details.

I also finished designing the keel, which also curves in all directions. In the full scale boat it is made out of iron. It will be made in a bread and butter construction, from several 4 mm slabs appropriately shaped. 

Plenty of time before the first piece of wood is cut. In the meantime no harm in silently getting a few things that will be very useful for the built later on. Hopefully the admiral will not notice!

Dear all, I think it is time for a quick update.

Patrick no sawdust I am afraid. Although for the last month I have devoted all my (limited) free time to the plans, I have produced only heat from the computer's fans.

Jim and Bob, you may be right, it could make a beautiful model but I am struggling a lot so far, it is a much more complex boat than I thought.

Hexnut, Rhino is great, but making it bend to my will is another matter. Your good words were, I am afraid, a bit premature. I realised that all my lines were wrong so I had to scrap everything and start again!

After 5 complete lofting cycles I think that now I do have a reasonably faired hull that seems to work well. I have achieved a smooth outer skin and defined the inner skin.

I also defined most of the temporary frames that will be made of 3 mm plywood

All bevels and the shape of the rebate have been (more or less) defined as well

By far the most difficult part of the boat is the sternpost. I see that usually this is a flat heavy timber but not in this boat. It curves on all sides in a massively complicated way. I had to do a lot of guessing as the plans are not detailed enough. Probably an experienced builder would have no problem at all but I had a hard time figuring out how things work. This photo from the internet was a great help, I think actually it is a Deben.

This is the sternpost I have to make!

The plans give the outside of skin but conversely the true dimensions of the Transom and this was particularly problematic. I could not figure out a smooth transition from sternpost to Transom. Furthermore, the sternpost near the Transom needs to widen a lot as the rebate line curves outward to meet the outside skin of the planking at the transom. This needs an added slice of wood.

I wonder if I bit more than I can chew. I will try and make the sternpost out of cheap wood and see if I can have reasonable results. If I can't, another option would be to loft again starting with a simpler sternpost. I would not like this though as I would move away from the original design.

Now, how nice is this! Patrick this is not an accurate model, there is no way the real boat would feel as good.

Good to see fruit again in your photos!

I ll have a gin and tonic in the sun beds thank you very much!

In my previous model I attempted to loft by hand and that was a disaster. I have a huge respect for people that can actually pull this through with just a ruler and a pencil. I started designing the boat on Rhino and soon I realised that the plans were difficult to figure out and that the offsets created curves far from fair. Maybe I made mistakes or did not interpret the plans properly but I struggled a lot to get a fair hull. When I checked with the diagonals, my lines were off but not by much. I do not think there is a point with re-doing the lofting, I am actually happy with the shape of the hull.

After I had the outer skin, it took some effort to determine the inner surface of the hull and then it was very easy to determine the shape of the temporary frames. Actually, at this stage I can change the stations as I like.

There are many things to consider, including:

1. I think I will raise the temporary frames, install battens, install all ribs and then plank the hull, removing battens progressively. 

2. I need to figure out how to secure the frames to the sloping keel and keep them square without gluing or drilling the hull (not too much at least)

3. I am not sure how to bent the ribs and how to fix to the planks.

4. Some serious jig will be needed to secure all these and I think building the jig will be close in complexity to building the boat.

Regards

Vaddoc

Dear all

Following completion of my last boat about a month ago I intended to take a break from model building. Somehow however, I found myself lofting a boat on CAD having spent 3 weeks trying to figure out the interactions of the complex curves of the hull.  So here we go again with another project!

I really would like to scratch-built a 2 masted schooner but undoubtedly one or more in-between steps are needed . I searched on the net for a relatively simple boat that would still have some of the building features of a larger ship so I could get some experience on rabbet cutting, carvel planking etc and came up with a small single mast sailboat, the 5-ton Deben. The plans and table of offsets are provided free on http://www.whisstock.com

I actually think it is the ugly duckling in the forum but then again it has been said that all wooden boats are inherently beautiful!

As my understanding of the design grew, I realised that it is not really a simple design. The wood keel is not straight but tapered and at an angle, the sternpost also is tapered aft and the above make for a complex rebate line. Also, there are many steam bent ribs and the offsets are to the outside of skin so the planking thickness need to be subtracted. Certainly I got the complex boat I was looking for!

I have not decided whether I will just built the hull or complete the whole boat. This is like a first date, you never know whether you ll end up married or drunk in a bar.

Looking very good Elijah.

BTW, if a woman suggests you have too many tools, wait for the right timing and suggest she also has too many shoes and/or bags.

Proceed on the above step with extreme caution.

Search for the thread "tree nails in bulk", it might suit your needs

Mike

I have sizes 5, 8 and 12. Perle 12 makes a fine 0.6-0.7 mm rope, 0.8-0,9 mm with the 8 and 1.2 mm with the 12. This thread is more supple than the cordonnet. The finest rope I have produced is 0.5 mm left hand twist with 100 weight, it is quite rigid though.