HMS Fly by drobinson02199 - FINISHED - Victory Models - Scale 1:64 - with upgrade kit

[drobinson02199]

So I'm back from a couple of weeks in the sun, and ready to tackle a new project after my great experience with the Amati Heritage 46.

 

There have been a number of really great logs done on this ship, which are a great reference.  What I can perhaps add to the party is some comments as I go on differences I encounter with this kit vs. my experience with the Revenge, which is the newest ship in the Amati Victory Models line -- the H.M.S. Fly is an earlier kit.

 

I'll begin with the obligatory "what's in the box" pictures.  In addition to the usual wood and laser cut and other parts, there is an instruction book, assembly pictures, and a set of large plans.  What I notice right away is that the instruction book is not as richly illustrated (and may not be as detailed) as the one that came with the Revenge was.  By the way, if you are looking very closely at the first pic, you might see a brass pedestal package.  Those did NOT come with the ship -- I ordered them separately and just put them in the kit box to avoid losing them.  I also had to order a base separately.

 

The first pic is the upgrade kit, which contains more brass fittings, some flags, a lifeboat kit, and who knows what else.  We'll see.  Time to dig in.

 

Regards,

David

 

 

[Blue Ensign]

Welcome to the Swan Club David, after your superb  Revenge build I don’t think Fly will present you with too many problems, enjoy this pretty little Sloop.

 

B.E.

[vossy]

I'm in on this one Dave after your magnificent build of the Grand Banks. Great idea to upgrade to the wooden lifeboat to I reckon.

 

Chris

 

[drobinson02199]

Brian:

 

Thanks -- I have been through your log front to back.  Very helpful.

 

Second planking is "the gift that keeps on giving"  

 

Regards,

David

[drobinson02199]

The keel and frames are done as shown below.  

 

I thought the instruction in the manual to bevel the frames before installation was great, so dry fitted the whole assembly and used a strip of first planking wood to eyeball the curves.  Then I glued in the middle three frames and popped in the deck for alignment.  I use CA, so dry in no time and perfectly aligned.  Then popped out the deck and beveled the next two frames on either side, testing with the strip as I went along, then gluing in those frames, and so forth.

 

The result is that most of the sanding is out of the way, and these frames are a lot better beveled for planking than in my other efforts where I did all the sanding after gluing everything.

 

The manual says that the Fly is designed for a novice-intermediate builder.  Intermediate maybe, but I think a novice would have trouble given the lack of detailed pictures with the instructions.  

 

Regards,

David

[clearway]

looks good so far- looks like there might be some nice 'tween decks detail to be added judging by the open frames?

 

Keith

[vossy]

Do you have an approx. finish date in mind Dave? I reckon this one will take longer than the Grand Banks.

 

Chris

 

[drobinson02199]

Chris:

 

I never know -- but a series of winter vacations has now come to an end, so I have more time to work on the model.  I can't tell yet how complex this one will be.  I know that it has fewer decks than the Revenge did.  I expect to hit hull planking within a few days.

 

Regards,

David

[donrobinson]

Great start David, you will have no problems making another beauty out of this kit

[DocBlake]

Good start!  Here’s a link to a blog that might be helpful, also: http://hmsfly.com

Edited April 5, 2018 by DocBlake

[Landlubber Mike]

Good choice David, these kits are wonderful and the subject beautiful with lots of resources out there.  Welcome to the Swan club!  BE’s Pegasus log is the gold standard we all try to reach.

 

Hope you don’t mind me following along!

[drobinson02199]

Mike -- I love the company!

 

Regards,

David

[drobinson02199]

Thanks, Doc.  That's a great link and very helpful to know about it.

 

Regards,

David

[drobinson02199]

This last stage I've finished wasn't helped by the instructions.  Look at the two drawings below.  The first one shows how the gun deck should be initially planked, and I placed those lateral planks where indicated.  Now look below, and you'll see that they have moved.  The issue is that one of the deck fittings straddles the planks I installed and the center section, so as a fix I had to go ahead and plank the center portion out to just before the "tear off" bulkheads, so that I could fit that forward part across planked deck.

 

You can see it in the pictures that follow -- I haven't varnished the center section yet and won't until I finish planking it out to the bulkheads.  At the end of the day, I'm fine with how this turned out, but it's an interesting inconsistency on the same page of the instructions.  The final picture shows the deck beams installed.

 

The deck fittings I left natural -- partly because I love the look of varnished walnut, and partly because I don't want to overload the look of the boat with red fittings.  The capstan you see won't be visible.  I'll paint the other one on the deck above it red.  You can see one of the fittings straddling old and new planking because of the way the lateral planks were drawn on the large deck diagram as noted above.

 

The instructions also say to cut the deck in half before planking and installing -- but mine came with the deck laser cut in two halves already.  I planked them before installing.  The kit must have been updated.

 

At the end of the day, I'm sort of glad that I ran into this issue, because if I had waited to plank the center section to the point called for in the instructions, I'd be working around the installed deck support beams, and that would be much more difficult.

 

I ordered some red paint on express delivery, because the red I have is too "cherry", and that is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, which is good, because I need to start painting some things red to keep going.

 

Regards,

David

[ccoyle]

This tid-bit of info might be too late for you, but those "lateral planks" are a kit feature that is designed to divvy up the planking into zones -- supposed to be easier for beginners. They're not a historical feature. You can leave them out if you want to.

[vossy]

Looking great David. As for the dodgy instructions, I reckon this is half the challenge! Seriously, I reckon I spend more time reading/studying the instructions both before and during the build than actually touching any wood. The instructions/drawings on my current build are horrendous! I reckon maybe 25% of the build just isn't mentioned or shown at all. Still having said that, this is by far the best kit I have seen for quantity of wood. I will end up with a great stash of all sorts of lengths and sizes to maybe help out on other builds.

 

Cheers

 

Chris.

 

[drobinson02199]

Chris Coyle:  Yes, I can see from some of the build logs on Fly that others have just done one continuous planking run, but they are on there now with fittings glued on top, so on they stay.

 

Chris Vossy:  Speaking of materials, my Fly kit only has "natural" thread at the thickness needed for ratlines.  I looked at all of the Fly pics I could find, and all show black thread, so I think I'm expected to dye the natural thread black.  No way -- I bought some black thread for the ratlines.

 

I also agree with you about things not being mentioned or being assumed -- these instructions are a bit sketchy compared to the Revenge ones, which were magnificent.  Both Chris Watton -- just different time periods.

 

Regards,

David

[Landlubber Mike]

You've done enough models that I don't think you need to look at the instructions.  There really isn't any complicated framing or anything that needs to be done.  I think you can just stick with the plans and proceed with the construction in the steps as you see fit.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Landlubber Mike

[ccoyle]

Mike makes an excellent point. You'll run into some other situations with this kit where the suggested build sequence will need some careful consideration with regards to later structures and additions.

[drobinson02199]

Bulwarks on and ready for first planking.

 

The bottom edge of the rear bulkhead was springing out where it joins the front bulkhead, so I added a small stiffener behind it.  Second picture.

 

Mindful of advice above from Mike and Chris, I considered gluing down the top decks at this point (the instructions say to do it after both plankings).  I finally decided to wait, on the off chance that while manipulating the hull so much during planking, I'd knock one of the cannon carriages loose.

 

Speaking of the cannon carriages:  the original ones are metal with some interesting detail, while the ones supplied in the upgrade kit are wood with smooth sides.  I think that's because the wood allows for the fancier cannon rigging as eyes can be installed in the carriages, but I like the look of the metal ones, so I'll use those and the simpler rigging.

 

Regards,

David

[vossy]

Gotta love cut out gun ports! Now you can get stuck into hours of self satisfying hull planking! lol

 

Cheers

 

Chris.

 

[drobinson02199]

First planking underway.

 

This is the smoothest and best-fitting first planking I've done to date, and I think the reason is that I beveled each bulkhead separately off the ship before installing it and gluing it it, testing each one with a test plank for fit.  So far, things are lying nicely.

 

Regards,

David

Edited April 7, 2018 by drobinson02199

[Landlubber Mike]

Nice start.  Be careful with the clinking at the bow, try to let the planks lay as flat as possible.  If I remember correctly. the planks start to sweep up so by trying to flatten them out and pull them down into a more horizontal position, you are going to get the clinking that you see.  Sanding and filler will be your friend.  Better to start your tapers at the stem further back.  

 

I think what is a little more concerning is the sharp bend at the last full bulkhead.  Again, it's better to let the planks lie as naturally as possible (and you may need to fair them a little more).  Rather than try to align each plank against the one above it at the stern, plan to use more stealers.  I think by forcing the planks into the unnatural orientation you are ending up with the cracked planks and the sharp bend at that bulkhead.

 

I offer this just as a bit of experience on my Pegasus.  You can see I had similar issues, but I soon figured out to start tapers earlier at the stem, and leave room for spacers at the stern.  The one thing I've learned in planking my Morgan and LAR is that the bow and stern filler blocks really help with the planking.  Without the blocks, it becomes a lot more of a strategic exercise to figure out where to stop the planks so that they end on a bulkhead.  With the blocks, much less concern.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Landlubber Mike

[drobinson02199]

Mike:

 

Thanks for all of this. 

 

Sanding and filler is in fact my very best friend -- I just think that I may for a change end up with more planks than filler on the first planking.  You should see my earlier attempts -- tubs of filler    You are right about the clinking, but these first planks are 1.5mm so plenty of room for sanding. 

 

On the stern:  the sharp bend is there whether I try to align with the plank above or not.  I have a really good steamer, and the cracks you see are partly a function of me being too impatient and not steaming enough.  When I do steam enough, I can really move the planks where I want them.  I have studied pictures and build logs to be sure I understand the run of planks at the stern -- and I think I do, although the plans are not terribly helpful on that score.  From what I can figure out, that sharp bend is part of the deal on this boat.

 

The stealer count will go up with the second planking.

 

You said "from what I can recall."  Have you built the Fly?  I only see the Pegasus in your signature.  If you have built the Fly, or if the Pegasus is similar, how did you handle the bend at the stern? (just the bend -- not the alignment part).

 

Regards,

David

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Take a look beginning here on my Pegasus log - you can see how I started getting a little of the clinking at the stem and stern.  Things got better at the stem when I started tapers further back and that big drop plank, while they got better at the stern by using stealers.  In the end, this is just the first planking, so with filler and sanding, you should be fine.  Just wanted to save you some of the extra work at the end of the first planking if you take some basic steps now.

 

 

Here is a link to my LAR - I'm a little further along than the log, but you can see how the planks at the stern post are laying much more flat by using stealers rather that trying to get each plank to line up against the plank below it.  Same principle applies at the stern counter where you are.

 

 

The key to remember is that the planking bands change size along the hull - usually narrowing at the stem and expanding at the stern.  At the stern, if you don't use stealers every few planks but instead force the planks to lie against the plank next to it, you end up bending the planks laterally against their width (took me a while to truly understand what this means).

 

My current approach with the first planking is to soak the planks, pin them in position, and let them dry.  Then I glue them into position.  I find this helps avoid cracking and gaps between the planking if you glue soaked planks.  Another tool I started using is this bending machine from Micromark - not sure I paid anywhere close to this, but it really helps start a nice curve in the plank without using nippers or jigs or anything (you wet the plank, then roll it in the bender a few times - the tighter you make the distance between the two cylinders in the bender, the tighter the curve in the plank):

 

https://www.micromark.com/Bending-Machine

 

It's a bit pricey, but you could always use something like this which I also have which works nice (the bending machine I find works much easier and faster for planking, though putting a particularly bend in thicker materials, the jig below works very well):

 

https://www.micromark.com/Plank-Forming-Jig

 

For the second planking on my Pegasus, I spiled my planks.  It's amazing how well it works to let planks lie naturally.  The drawback though is that it takes a lot of time to spile planks - but, you save time on the back end.  My Pegasus log has lots of pictures of how I created spiled planks.

 

Hope that helps!

 

[drobinson02199]

Mike:

 

Thank you so much for the substantial time you put into that post.  I have been tapering the planks at the bow, but I may start further back as you suggest.

 

Your stern bend on the Pegasus looks shallower than mine on the Fly.  That's either because the ships are different in that regard, or maybe I should have beveled that last bulkhead more to create a shallower drop -- but it's too late now.  I see what you mean about the stealers.  I have looked at the other Fly logs and can't get a good handle on whether their bend is as steep as mine.  I haven't worried a lot about the side effect of pulling the stern planks over to align them, again because sanding and wood filler are my best friends on layer 1.  Not so with the second planking.

 

When I built the Revenge, I edge bent the second planks using clamps, a steamer and a hair dryer.  It takes a long time, but they really lay well when I get it right.  Lots of snake-like S-bent planks!  Also lots of stealers where needed.

 

Regards,

David

[Blue Ensign]

David, the basic Fly and Pegasus hulls are the same, it's only in the detailing that the kits differ.

There is quite a steep but graceful curve of the stern timbers running up to the counter and this is all down to fairing. There should not be a sharp break of the timbers at the last but one bulkhead.

From what I see the angle you have is just too sharp to achieve a decent result and I can't see how sanding and filling are going to resolve this issue.

I would be tempted to cut back the planking at the fourth bulkhead from aft, and  re-fair the bulkheads running up the  stern counter.

Without a reasonable base on which to apply the second planking, problems down the road are going to be encountered.

 

Regards,

 

B.E.

[drobinson02199]

I want to thank Blue Ensign for his really great advice -- and for stating it strongly so that I'd have the motivation to rip out planks and go back.

 

So I did just what B.E. recommended above.  You can see the removal and the re-do in the pics below.  Much, much better plank line, and I can see how the former one would have not just "led to problems down the line", but actually have been a disaster.

 

I have to confess that I found the drawings not very helpful in understanding how the stern should look, and I was also led astray by the initial size of the second bulkhead.  I assumed (wrongly) that it would have been made closer to its target size.  What helped a lot was scouring all of the build logs on Fly, which helped me understand how the lower stern counter mates with the planking.  The drawings were just a mystery to me.

 

Again, thanks and kudos to Blue Ensign.

 

Regards,

David

[Blue Ensign]

That's so much better David, and quickly achieved, you should now be able to complete a good base for the second planking.

 

Glad it all worked out.

 

B.E.

[DocBlake]

It's always hard to rip something out and redo it, but you did a great job.  The second planking should float into place!