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Hello all.

Was wondering if anyone knows where to get mini black nails at a decent price in the U.S? I started to order some that I found at modelers Central for $3.75 p150 but the shipping was a crazy $20! NO WAY! I don’t have a hobby store near me that caters to our hobby unfortunately. I’ve heard of guys making their own but no idea how that works. I’ve got no problem buying some. Just not going to pay a ridiculous shipping and handling charge like MC wants. I need them for the Amati Viking ship I’m building. It came with brass nails but I’ve seen a build that used black and it looks a lot better . This model is 1:50 scale if that helps anything. Thank you.

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From California to Florida, Ages of Sail charge $8 shipping and they have iron nails,pack of 200 (10mm) $1.59.

Edited by Captain Poison

Completed.... Charles W. Morgan,Sea Horse,USS Constitution,Virginia 1819,San Fransisco II, AL HMS Bounty 1:48

L'Herminione 1:96

Spanish Frigate,22 cannons 18th C. 1:35 scale.Scratch-built (Hull only)

Cutter Cheefull 1806 1:48 (with modifications)

 

Current Project: Orca (This is a 35" replica of the Orca boat from the movie Jaws)

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You might consider using what you have and darkening it.

 

Birchwood Casey Brass Black Metal Finish, 3-Ounce    Amazon

 

Do a search here to get more information.

NRG member 50 years

 

Current:  

NMS

HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - POF framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Just be aware that the blackened brass colored surface may not stand up to being hammered in place. But if you pre-drill the hole and gently push the pin into place you may preserve the finish. Those track fixing pins are designed to be nailed in so their surface finish may stand up to hammering.

Greg

website
Admiralty Models

moderator Echo Cross-section build
Admiralty Models Cross-section Build

Finished build
Pegasus, 1776, cross-section

Current build
Speedwell, 1752

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I sort of recently viewed pictures of an old model - I think it was French - probably NRJ - anyway,  it was plank fastened with iron nails.

They were almost gone and the wood around the nails was stained.  The wood may have been Oak, which has reactive compounds,

but as the old saw goes = rust never sleeps.

Edited by Jaager

NRG member 50 years

 

Current:  

NMS

HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  - POF timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - POF framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Wow!! All very insightful info, thanks guys. I have another question though. What size nails do you think would be best for this? Again, I am building the Drakkar Viking ship by Amati. 1:50 scale. Oh, and sorry for the  initial font size. I cut and pasted that from a note pad on my phone and it just came out that way. I’ve no idea how to change it. “Funny how someone just pops in for no other reason than to tell you that they feel like there being yelled at just from reading oversized text,”wow! Anyway, as for everyone else, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom and great advice. Helps a lot!!!

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I suggest that you review Ed Tosti’s build log of the ship Young America in the Scratch Built models section of the forum.  Ed is a master of using and blackening miniature fastenings.  Another trick learned from Ed is the use of black monofilament plastic fishing line to simulate iron fastenings.

 

Roger

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I thought you had a giant keyboard :P

Completed.... Charles W. Morgan,Sea Horse,USS Constitution,Virginia 1819,San Fransisco II, AL HMS Bounty 1:48

L'Herminione 1:96

Spanish Frigate,22 cannons 18th C. 1:35 scale.Scratch-built (Hull only)

Cutter Cheefull 1806 1:48 (with modifications)

 

Current Project: Orca (This is a 35" replica of the Orca boat from the movie Jaws)

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5 hours ago, irishrover1970 said:

......Oh, and sorry for the  initial font size. I cut and pasted that from a note pad on my phone and it just came out that way. I’ve no idea how to change it. “Funny how someone just pops in for no other reason than to tell you that they feel like there being yelled at just from reading oversized text,”wow! Anyway, as for everyone else, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom and great advice. Helps a lot!!!

When you " paste ", look for a little prompt at the bottom of the reply window that says " Paste as plain text...  "

 

Plain.jpg.ab62df868224653dfb42016006e9a001.jpg

 

Click on it and all will be good..

 

 

 

Edited by Gregory

“Indecision may or may not be my problem.”
― Jimmy Buffett

Current builds:    Rattlesnake

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 9:27 PM, dvm27 said:

Just be aware that the blackened brass colored surface may not stand up to being hammered in place. But if you pre-drill the hole and gently push the pin into place you may preserve the finish. Those track fixing pins are designed to be nailed in so their surface finish may stand up to hammering.

I believe Ed Tosti and others use liver of sulphur gel. It blackens copper, brass, bronze, and silver. Soluble in water, it may be brushed on after hammering (and silver soldering) without staining the surrounding non-metallic material. It's relatively safe. The metal must be clean and free of oils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_of_sulfur

 

https://www.cooltools.us/Cool-Tools-Liver-of-Sulfur-in-Gel-Form-2oz-p/pol-802.htm or google for many retail sources. It's a standard product for jewelers.

 

Follow the instructions. All you need to know.

 

 

 

 

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Hello.

This is one strange case in which a 1 star review made me purchase the product. Someone complained that the nails were "way too small" :)

This is what made me to complete the purchase:)

https://www.amazon.com/PECO-SG_B001BHLR4E_US-Track-Nails-PPCSL14/dp/B001BHLR4E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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If the nails are for looks and not for holding, their is a log I saw on this site where a build showed black monofilament line inserted into predrilled holes. 

Edited by Dr PS

Paul

 

Cutty Sark, Scientific Models (no build log)

18th Century Armed Longboat, Model Shipways

Civil War Coffee Wagon and Limber, Model Shipways side project

New Bedford Whaleboat, Model Shipways

Civil War Gatling Gun, Model Shipways side project

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A very good site for Viking ships, not only nails but many other things is at 

 http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/norse_ships.htm

 

If those nails/rivets are 3" long you should be able to roughly work out the diameter and head size at 1:50.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Steven

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On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 6:47 PM, irishrover1970 said:

Wow! Again, great advice from all!! I am just thinking that dvm27 is right. If hammered the faults finish will bleed through. It would have the to black to the core. Thoughts?

Bart..

I would be reluctant to hammer nails into a model without first drilling properly sized holes for them. The risk of splitting a plank or other piece would be too great. If I wanted to have brass nail heads (and clinched roves... see below) show black, I'd only apply liver of sulfur to the nail heads after they were driven and headed over. The liver of sulfur does not stain the surrounding surfaces. In that way, knocking off the patina with the hammer isn't an issue.

 

Viking ship lapstrake planking wasn't nailed, actually, but rather riveted. Their hand-wrought nail heads were in some instances what we'd today call "rose-headed," and in other instances, more or less flat.  For the purpose of depicting the construction methods of a full-size vessel, modelers may sometimes use blackened wire or black monofilament fishing line in the proper scale diameter to depict nails in wooden boats. In fact, most all of the prototype vessels were fastened with trunnels (wood pegs) or where nailed, would have had the nail heads countersunk and the countersunk holes plugged with a wood peg finished flush with the surface. The nail heads, or more accurately, the rivet heads, on Viking ships weren't countersunk owing to the thinner planking and lighter construction and the fact that the rivets ("nails") were clinched over a square rove inboard, as shown below. So, to replicate the fastenings in an open Viking boat model would require a lot of tedious work, even with "mock rivets," rather than real riveted fasteners, but it sure would look would really look spectacular!

 

rivets.jpg

clinker_construction.gif

 

rivets_and_washers.jpg

 

nail.jpg

 

e5a84a3229a862d7987c5fa2a3823e00.jpg

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Thank you all for your insight and advice. You have indeed opened my eyes to a lot of new things here. I am very  intrigue by the  monofilament  Idea. I looked over Ed’s log and wow!  Absolutely amazing. But I did however not see his implementing monofilament for mock nailing ,  perhaps I missed it as it is a very detailed and lengthy log “3+years” I believe. Thank you for the pictures Bob. They really got me thinking and now I want to do the whole hull like that. That might make this build 3 years also lol. But I agree. It would look  awesome!! I only wish I could  actually see this technique in action . Thanks again everyone. I love this hobby and this site. I’ve never met such  insightful and helpful people .

Bart..

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On 3/19/2019 at 1:55 AM, irishrover1970 said:

Hello all.

Was wondering if anyone knows where to get mini black nails at a decent price in the U.S? I started to order some that I found at modelers Central for $3.75 p150 but the shipping was a crazy $20! NO WAY! I don’t have a hobby store near me that caters to our hobby unfortunately. I’ve heard of guys making their own but no idea how that works. I’ve got no problem buying some. Just not going to pay a ridiculous shipping and handling charge like MC wants. I need them for the Amati Viking ship I’m building. It came with brass nails but I’ve seen a build that used black and it looks a lot better . This model is 1:50 scale if that helps anything. Thank you.

Hello irishrover1970

Perhaps the easiest way to do this is to use brass wire. You can cut it into pieces of the right length, shape the hats of the nails with the file and then darken it with chemical fluids.

021.jpg

020.jpg

019.jpg

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For making nails from brass wire there's a video here https://modelshipworld.com/topic/3315-making-small-nails-with-round-head/?do=findComment&comment=91910

 

Richard

 

Richard

Current Build: Early 19th Century US Revenue Cutter (Artesania Latina "Dallas" - messed about)

Completed Build: Yakatabune - Japanese - Woody Joe mini

Member: Nautical Research Guild & Midwest Model Shipwrights

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Hello.
Another source of small nails is an old pc processor...
It's surface are covered with pins, which can give you up to 100 "nails" by setting up a small fire in your backyard and take out the last offer of it ….
I use these nails as  “keys” for my shackles.
Just to notice that many of those pins come out with some lead on their head. Just keep them with a tweezers over a lighter's flame…
Thanks

 

Nails.JPG

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