irishrover1970 Posted March 18, 2019 Share #1 Posted March 18, 2019 Hello all. Was wondering if anyone knows where to get mini black nails at a decent price in the U.S? I started to order some that I found at modelers Central for $3.75 p150 but the shipping was a crazy $20! NO WAY! I don’t have a hobby store near me that caters to our hobby unfortunately. I’ve heard of guys making their own but no idea how that works. I’ve got no problem buying some. Just not going to pay a ridiculous shipping and handling charge like MC wants. I need them for the Amati Viking ship I’m building. It came with brass nails but I’ve seen a build that used black and it looks a lot better . This model is 1:50 scale if that helps anything. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Poison Posted March 18, 2019 Share #2 Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) From California to Florida, Ages of Sail charge $8 shipping and they have iron nails,pack of 200 (10mm) $1.59. Edited March 18, 2019 by Captain Poison Quote Completed.... Charles W. Morgan,Sea Horse,USS Constitution,Virginia 1819,San Fransisco II, AL HMS Bounty 1:48 L'Herminione 1:96 Spanish Frigate,22 cannons 18th C. 1:35 scale.Scratch-built (Hull only) Cutter Cheefull 1806 1:48 (with modifications) Current Project: Orca (This is a 35" replica of the Orca boat from the movie Jaws) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted March 18, 2019 Share #3 Posted March 18, 2019 You might consider using what you have and darkening it. Birchwood Casey Brass Black Metal Finish, 3-Ounce Amazon Do a search here to get more information. mtaylor and tasmanian 2 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrover1970 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share #4 Posted March 19, 2019 Great ideas thanks. I am going to look into these for sure. I did look up the brass black stuff that stuff is amazing jaager . I never knew that it existed. Thanks again. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktiedens Posted March 19, 2019 Share #5 Posted March 19, 2019 If you have a nearby hobby shop that deals in trains,they may have these track fixing pins - small black nails that have a round head. They are just about perfect for model ship work. Mark mtaylor 1 Quote current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted March 19, 2019 Share #6 Posted March 19, 2019 Just be aware that the blackened brass colored surface may not stand up to being hammered in place. But if you pre-drill the hole and gently push the pin into place you may preserve the finish. Those track fixing pins are designed to be nailed in so their surface finish may stand up to hammering. Bob Cleek, druxey and mtaylor 3 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiachedmark Posted March 19, 2019 Share #7 Posted March 19, 2019 Gidday Irishrover. Could you please adjust your font size. I feel like I'm being screamed at. Thanks. Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted March 19, 2019 Share #8 Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) I sort of recently viewed pictures of an old model - I think it was French - probably NRJ - anyway, it was plank fastened with iron nails. They were almost gone and the wood around the nails was stained. The wood may have been Oak, which has reactive compounds, but as the old saw goes = rust never sleeps. Edited March 19, 2019 by Jaager druxey, paulsutcliffe and mtaylor 3 Quote NRG member 45 years Current: HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 ship - timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrover1970 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share #9 Posted March 21, 2019 Wow!! All very insightful info, thanks guys. I have another question though. What size nails do you think would be best for this? Again, I am building the Drakkar Viking ship by Amati. 1:50 scale. Oh, and sorry for the initial font size. I cut and pasted that from a note pad on my phone and it just came out that way. I’ve no idea how to change it. “Funny how someone just pops in for no other reason than to tell you that they feel like there being yelled at just from reading oversized text,”wow! Anyway, as for everyone else, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom and great advice. Helps a lot!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted March 21, 2019 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2019 I suggest that you review Ed Tosti’s build log of the ship Young America in the Scratch Built models section of the forum. Ed is a master of using and blackening miniature fastenings. Another trick learned from Ed is the use of black monofilament plastic fishing line to simulate iron fastenings. Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Poison Posted March 21, 2019 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2019 I thought you had a giant keyboard pontiachedmark and mtaylor 2 Quote Completed.... Charles W. Morgan,Sea Horse,USS Constitution,Virginia 1819,San Fransisco II, AL HMS Bounty 1:48 L'Herminione 1:96 Spanish Frigate,22 cannons 18th C. 1:35 scale.Scratch-built (Hull only) Cutter Cheefull 1806 1:48 (with modifications) Current Project: Orca (This is a 35" replica of the Orca boat from the movie Jaws) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrover1970 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share #12 Posted March 21, 2019 Thanks Roger, I will check Ed’s posts out for sure. And the fishing line idea sounds very interesting thanks. And quite the contrary Captain. I’m using a little cell phone .Maybe it have an inferiority complex 🤔 LoL. Captain Poison and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted March 21, 2019 Share #13 Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, irishrover1970 said: ......Oh, and sorry for the initial font size. I cut and pasted that from a note pad on my phone and it just came out that way. I’ve no idea how to change it. “Funny how someone just pops in for no other reason than to tell you that they feel like there being yelled at just from reading oversized text,”wow! Anyway, as for everyone else, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom and great advice. Helps a lot!!! When you " paste ", look for a little prompt at the bottom of the reply window that says " Paste as plain text... " Click on it and all will be good.. Edited March 21, 2019 by Gregory pontiachedmark and mtaylor 2 Quote Luck is just another word for good preparation. —MICHAEL ROSE Current builds: Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted March 21, 2019 Share #14 Posted March 21, 2019 On 3/18/2019 at 9:27 PM, dvm27 said: Just be aware that the blackened brass colored surface may not stand up to being hammered in place. But if you pre-drill the hole and gently push the pin into place you may preserve the finish. Those track fixing pins are designed to be nailed in so their surface finish may stand up to hammering. I believe Ed Tosti and others use liver of sulphur gel. It blackens copper, brass, bronze, and silver. Soluble in water, it may be brushed on after hammering (and silver soldering) without staining the surrounding non-metallic material. It's relatively safe. The metal must be clean and free of oils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_of_sulfur https://www.cooltools.us/Cool-Tools-Liver-of-Sulfur-in-Gel-Form-2oz-p/pol-802.htm or google for many retail sources. It's a standard product for jewelers. Follow the instructions. All you need to know. paulsutcliffe and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrover1970 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share #15 Posted March 22, 2019 Wow! Again, great advice from all!! I am just thinking that dvm27 is right. If hammered the faults finish will bleed through. It would have the to black to the core. Thoughts? Bart.. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiachedmark Posted March 22, 2019 Share #16 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Gidday Irishrover. I didn't "just pop in" to complain about your font size. I am in rural Australia and my thoughts on purchasing supplies are irrelevant unless you also reside in Australia. Mark. Edited March 22, 2019 by pontiachedmark Rick01 and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulises Victoria Posted March 22, 2019 Share #17 Posted March 22, 2019 Hello. This is one strange case in which a 1 star review made me purchase the product. Someone complained that the nails were "way too small" This is what made me to complete the purchase:) https://www.amazon.com/PECO-SG_B001BHLR4E_US-Track-Nails-PPCSL14/dp/B001BHLR4E/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 mtaylor, Gregory and Keith Black 3 Quote There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT. Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina. Last finished projects: Royal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90; Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models. So much to build, so little time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr PS - Paul Schulze Posted March 23, 2019 Share #18 Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) If the nails are for looks and not for holding, their is a log I saw on this site where a build showed black monofilament line inserted into predrilled holes. Edited March 23, 2019 by Dr PS mtaylor 1 Quote Paul Cutty Sark, Scientific Models (no build log) 18th Century Armed Longboat, Model Shipways Civil War Coffee Wagon and Limber, Model Shipways side project New Bedford Whaleboat, Model Shipways Civil War Gatling Gun, Model Shipways side project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted March 23, 2019 Share #19 Posted March 23, 2019 A very good site for Viking ships, not only nails but many other things is at http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/norse_ships.htm If those nails/rivets are 3" long you should be able to roughly work out the diameter and head size at 1:50. Hope that helps, Steven mtaylor 1 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted March 23, 2019 Share #20 Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/21/2019 at 6:47 PM, irishrover1970 said: Wow! Again, great advice from all!! I am just thinking that dvm27 is right. If hammered the faults finish will bleed through. It would have the to black to the core. Thoughts? Bart.. I would be reluctant to hammer nails into a model without first drilling properly sized holes for them. The risk of splitting a plank or other piece would be too great. If I wanted to have brass nail heads (and clinched roves... see below) show black, I'd only apply liver of sulfur to the nail heads after they were driven and headed over. The liver of sulfur does not stain the surrounding surfaces. In that way, knocking off the patina with the hammer isn't an issue. Viking ship lapstrake planking wasn't nailed, actually, but rather riveted. Their hand-wrought nail heads were in some instances what we'd today call "rose-headed," and in other instances, more or less flat. For the purpose of depicting the construction methods of a full-size vessel, modelers may sometimes use blackened wire or black monofilament fishing line in the proper scale diameter to depict nails in wooden boats. In fact, most all of the prototype vessels were fastened with trunnels (wood pegs) or where nailed, would have had the nail heads countersunk and the countersunk holes plugged with a wood peg finished flush with the surface. The nail heads, or more accurately, the rivet heads, on Viking ships weren't countersunk owing to the thinner planking and lighter construction and the fact that the rivets ("nails") were clinched over a square rove inboard, as shown below. So, to replicate the fastenings in an open Viking boat model would require a lot of tedious work, even with "mock rivets," rather than real riveted fasteners, but it sure would look would really look spectacular! mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrover1970 Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share #21 Posted March 23, 2019 Thank you all for your insight and advice. You have indeed opened my eyes to a lot of new things here. I am very intrigue by the monofilament Idea. I looked over Ed’s log and wow! Absolutely amazing. But I did however not see his implementing monofilament for mock nailing , perhaps I missed it as it is a very detailed and lengthy log “3+years” I believe. Thank you for the pictures Bob. They really got me thinking and now I want to do the whole hull like that. That might make this build 3 years also lol. But I agree. It would look awesome!! I only wish I could actually see this technique in action . Thanks again everyone. I love this hobby and this site. I’ve never met such insightful and helpful people . Bart.. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted March 23, 2019 Share #22 Posted March 23, 2019 Ed has also published a book on another project, a Nelson era Royal Navy frigate. His monofilament line technique may be described in that book. Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorSky Posted March 23, 2019 Share #23 Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 1:55 AM, irishrover1970 said: Hello all. Was wondering if anyone knows where to get mini black nails at a decent price in the U.S? I started to order some that I found at modelers Central for $3.75 p150 but the shipping was a crazy $20! NO WAY! I don’t have a hobby store near me that caters to our hobby unfortunately. I’ve heard of guys making their own but no idea how that works. I’ve got no problem buying some. Just not going to pay a ridiculous shipping and handling charge like MC wants. I need them for the Amati Viking ship I’m building. It came with brass nails but I’ve seen a build that used black and it looks a lot better . This model is 1:50 scale if that helps anything. Thank you. Hello irishrover1970 Perhaps the easiest way to do this is to use brass wire. You can cut it into pieces of the right length, shape the hats of the nails with the file and then darken it with chemical fluids. mtaylor 1 Quote My models in PROGRESS: Three-mast schooner ATLANTIC - BOTTLE - 1/600 Scale , Captain Jack Sparrow arrives in Port Royal - BOTTLE - Scale 1/72 My COMPLETED models: Boat with pirates - 1/72 scale - BOTTLE, Pilot cutter Jolie Brise - BOTTLE - Scale 1/240, Yacht J-class - BOTTLE - Scale 1/300 , Mini SIB - Yacht Jolie Brise and Lighthouse Fastnet Rock – BOTTLE – Scale 1/3000 , Schooner AMERICA - BOTTLE - scale ̴ 1/800 , Mini SIB - J-class Yacht - BOTTLE - scale 1/1000 , The Old Man and The Sea - BOTTLE - Scale 1/72 , Steam schooner LENA - BOTTLE - scale 1/290 , Koch - Russian polar ship - BOTTLE - 1/1000 , Typical boat of Mediterranean Sea - BOTTLE - Scale 1/200 , Lifeboat RS1 Colin Archer - BOTTLE - scale 1/230 , Yacht Spray of Captain Joshua Slocum - BOTTLE - 1/350 Scale , Two-mast yacht - BOTTLE - 1/1000 Scale My GALLERIES: Noname yacht-in-bottle, Two-mast yacht in bottle 1/1000 Scale, Yacht Spray of Captain Joshua Slocum - BOTTLE - 1/350 Scale, Mini SIB 001 - BOTTLE, Mini SIB 002 Catalan Ship - BOTTLE, Mini SiB 003 Typical boat of Mediterranean Sea 1/200 - BOTTLE, Koch - Russian polar ship - BOTTLE - 1/1000, Mini SIB 004 - 3 mast schooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardG Posted March 23, 2019 Share #24 Posted March 23, 2019 For making nails from brass wire there's a video here https://modelshipworld.com/topic/3315-making-small-nails-with-round-head/?do=findComment&comment=91910 Richard IgorSky and mtaylor 2 Quote Richard Current Build: Early 19th Century US Revenue Cutter (Artesania Latina "Dallas" - messed about) Completed Build: Yakatabune - Japanese - Woody Joe mini Member: Nautical Research Guild & Midwest Model Shipwrights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanasis Posted March 23, 2019 Share #25 Posted March 23, 2019 Hello. Another source of small nails is an old pc processor... It's surface are covered with pins, which can give you up to 100 "nails" by setting up a small fire in your backyard and take out the last offer of it …. I use these nails as “keys” for my shackles. Just to notice that many of those pins come out with some lead on their head. Just keep them with a tweezers over a lighter's flame… Thanks RichardG, Bob Cleek, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote https://www.naftotopos.gr/index.php/el/ There are no bad or good model makers. There are only less or more experienced. In gallery Tsernikoperama - Trechandiri Brachera - Bombarda Sabatiera -Tserniki vessel rigged as Penna - NE Aegean Sea Tserniki -Tserniki of Mykonos Island -Tserniki of Mytilene Island -Trechandiri-schooner rigging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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