New to table saw

[niwotwill]

I've had my byrnes 4" table saw for a while now and now I'm needing to start ripping wood for making frames and planking. First I need to make 1" wide strips out of 1/8" swiss pear and having never ripped anything I don"t what blade to use so any help will be great. Second I'll be ripping 1mm x 5mm strips from walnut, cherry and pear so again what blade to use. Help with kerf, teeth, and brands as I've only used the blades that came with the saw.

 

Thanks guys

Will Pearson

 

[mtaylor]

Here's a PDF with blade recommendations and other things.   

 

Byrnes Saw Operation.pdf

[niwotwill]

Mark

 

Great help. Now I have a place to start and will tomorrow

 

Thanks

Will

[Thistle17]

You should be aware that Thurston has closed if you do not source your blades from Byrnes. Here is another source that Thurston recommends:

 

MALCO SAW COMPANY

22 FIELD STREET

CRANSTON, RI  02920

PHONE: 401-942-7380

FAX: 401-946-6092

CONTACT: GREG LIVESEY

Email: greg@malcosaw.com

Website: www.malcosaw.com

[mtaylor]

Thistle is right.   My bad.   But the conversions to the Malco products should be the same as far as tooth counts and wood thickness.

[Jaager]

I am not going to look it up, but I remember it as the blade ideally having 3 teeth in contract with the wood and the crown of the blade being a minimal distance above the stock.  That means the blade hits the stock at about a 30 degree angle from the horizontal.  Too many fine teeth and the gullet fills with cuttings and can no longer cut.  Too few teeth and it is like cutting with a chisel driven by a hammer - intermittently.

 

To get your 1/8" stock from a 1" or 2" thick billet - a different and larger tool.  The efficient choice is a band saw - and not a bench top model - and a thickness sander -  a hollow ground blade on a 10" table saw works, but has more waste and wants to eat your fingers.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I agree with Jaager

 

Also if a blade is too thin, it is going to wave in the wood. Personally, I do not use these metal blades. I rarely cut thinner than .100". I always use carbide blades, for all the thickness, last for months and makes almost perfect cut. If I want  a true regular thickness, I finish with the thickness sander. Additionally, I will also use the thickness sander on the 2 by 4 after each cut to start with a straight finish.

 

Probably starting from a 2 by 4 going to small planks means you are going to loose over 60 % of the wood, that is a lot: the smaller the planks, the greater the lost of wood.

[KeithAug]

I have done a lot of plank making with the Byrnes saw - mostly in mahogany and obechi. For ripping less  than 1/4" stock I always use slitting saw blades. I have only ever had a problem with slitting saw blades when they are dull. For ripping planks anywhere between .020" and .080" thick I use a .0315" thick (.8mm) slitting saw blade of 80mm diameter and 108 teeth. I have tried narrower blades but they flex and produce inconsistent plank widths. For stock that is more than 1/4" thick I use blades of the same thickness and diameter but with either 72 or 36 teeth.

 

Now for a bit of heresy. I use cheap (really cheap) slitting blades off Amazon and sling them when they become dull - which only really happens when I abuse them by cutting metal with them on the mill.

 

Here are the blades I buy.

They come in the flowing sizes.

Because the blades have a 22mm bore you do need a 1/2" to 22mm spacer. I made one but you can buy them directly from Jim Byrnes. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by KeithAug

[KeithAug]

Further to my previous post It is probably worth adding that I cut planks between the blade and the extended (extra height fence), and that i find the following modification very beneficial / necessary:-

 

I tend to find the slight taper on the back of the fence is insufficient when I am cutting thin planks. I know that some recommend locking the front of the fence and then pushing over the rear to increase the clearance. I prefer not to strain the fence. What I use is a .020 thick 6 inch rule which I attach to the fence using double sided tape. The inner end of the rule is positioned 1/4 inch behind the front of the blade. It works a treat.

 

 

[BANYAN]

Great adaption - thanks Keith.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Bob Blarney]

 

Bearing in mind that my experience is with full-size tools rather than a modelmaker's saw, I think I may have a few comments that might be useful. 

 

Jaager's comments about the number of teeth engaged in the stock is mostly correct, with some exceptions for a particular wood species.  Generally 2-4 teeth must be engaged in cutting, with an adequate set and gullet depth, and the correct feed speed to eject saw dust.

 

While the wood used in modelmaking is typically quite clear and straight-grained, there may still be internal stresses in the wood that are relieved during ripping, and this may cause the wood to curl and close the kerf behind the blade.  For saws with full-length fences (esp common in the USA), skewing the fence in some manner to relieve binding is considered a poor practice, and generally a splitter should always be used.  There are also saws which have half-length fences that relieve binding towards the fence (as KeithAug's ruler functions (see #9) , but they do not prevent the kerf from closing behind the blade and so again a splitter should be used.  However, at the dimensions typically used in modelmaking, a dangerous kickback is unlikely and the worst that usually happens is a ruined piece of wood.

 

All that said, when ripping thin slices with full-sized saws, e.g. cutting 1/8" wide strips from a 4" wide board, the fence should never be fixed at 1/8" from the blade and then the thin slices ripped from the wide stock board.  If done that way, then the thin slice may become trapped, grabbed by the blade and flung back as a spear at the operator.  A much safer practice is to place a stop block on the other side of the blade, at 1/8" from the blade.  Then the stock is placed against the fence, and the fence is adjusted so as to abut the stock against the stop block.  Then a slice is ripped away, and then the fence is readjusted for each successive cut, again abutting the wide stock against the stop block. 

 

Finally, sacrificial push sticks and blocks are always a good idea.  And for many sawing operations at modelmakers' scale, a blunt pencil with a soft eraser makes a good push stick.
 

1, the overall setup - note the Wixey DRO, which I find is a great convenience

2. stop block set at ~1/8"

3.  my adjustable sled for precision cuts at many angles, up to 20" length.
 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Bob Blarney
add photos

[bruce d]

19 minutes ago, Bob Blarney said:

All that said, when ripping thin slices with full-sized saws, e.g. cutting 1/8" wide strips from a 4" wide board, the fence should never be fixed at 1/8" from the blade and then the thin slices ripped from the wide stock board.  If done that way, then the thin slice may become trapped, grabbed by the blade and flung back as a spear at the operator.  A much safer practice is to place a stop block on the other side of the blade, at 1/8" from the blade.  Then the stock is placed against the fence, and the fence is adjusted so as to abut the stock against the stop block.  Then a slice is ripped away, and then the fence is readjusted for each successive cut, again abutting the wide stock against the stop block. 

Bob,

Many thanks. I take it the same basic idea works for producing thin strips on a small bandsaw? I am about to make my first attempt.

 

Bruce

[Bob Blarney]

27 minutes ago, bruce d said:

Bob,

Many thanks. I take it the same basic idea works for producing thin strips on a small bandsaw? I am about to make my first attempt.

 

Bruce

Yes, this can work on a bandsaw as well if the blade is in good condition and the saw is set up properly.  I have ripped grandillo (a very hard wood)  into 0.10" slices at 10" depth for guitar backs with a very good blade, but it took some tinkering.

But a common difficulty that occurs with bandsaws happens when the blade is dulled on one side.  This is usually manifested as a tendency to wander to one side while cutting, and is typically corrected by freehand cutting while skewing the board.  If a better blade is not available, then one would use a 'point' fence.  This is a piece of wood that is single or double beveled and placed so that the point is at the desired distance from the tips of the teeth.  This allows the operator to guide the board at a skewed angle while using the point of the bevel to maintain the desired distance distance from the blade.

 

Another key point about using a bandsaw is to set the tension correctly for the blade (and relieve it when you're done for the day).  If it's too loose the blade will wander, and if it's too tight then it may strain the saw's frame and bearings. 

 

I have also considered how to further process the board after ripping.  Most persons sand the pieces to thickness, and that's ok.  If you have a drill press, look for a 'Robo-sander' accessory.  However, I would use a hand plane with a fixture.  It would be faster and give a better surface finish while generating no airborne dust.  I suppose that I could mock a fixture up for you, if you have a plane a block plane or a No. 3 to No.5 plane.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Bob Blarney

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

On 4/4/2019 at 10:01 PM, Jaager said:

the crown of the blade being a minimal distance above the stock.

At the opposite, if the blade is too high, the blade will be touching the wood  at the front and back.

If the wood is not parallel when the blade touch the wood in the back... it will cut again, and this we do not want.

[KeithAug]

1 hour ago, Bob Blarney said:

the fence should never be fixed at 1/8" from the blade and then the thin slices ripped from the wide stock board. 

Hi Bob

 

Yes I am aware that this is common practice. Re-setting the fence for each cut is however is a bind when you are ripping a 100 plus planks. Repeatability of thickness is also somewhat of an issue when you are trying to cut to +/- .001" which is typically what I aim for. You are right about the potential for kick back but the use of a sacrificial push stick to push the plank beyond the end of the rule attached to the fence mitigates this problem. The kick back issue is why I only have the rule overlapping the front of the blade by 1/4" once the plank has passed the end of the rule it has clearance and is no longer trapped. I also wouldn't recommend cutting between the blade and the fence if I was working without an attached rule or using anything other than a slitting saw blade.

Edited April 8, 2019 by KeithAug

[Bob Blarney]

Here's a point fence that is probably appropriate for  boards less than 3/4".  Just make sure that it's clamped properly.

 

Incidentally, in the pic of the sled, the carpenter's triangle square is used as stop and support.  The angles are set by a digital protractor or by trigonometric calculation and measurement if needed.  And by the way,  a new plastic triangle would make a good auxiliary fence for a Byrnes saw.

[Bob Blarney]

9 minutes ago, KeithAug said:

Hi Bob

 

Yes I am aware that this is common practice. Re-setting the fence for each cut is however is a bind when you are ripping a 100 plus planks. Repeatability of thickness is also somewhat of an issue when you are trying to cut to +/- .001" which is typically what I aim for. You are right about the potential for kick back but the use of a sacrificial push stick to push the plank beyond the end of the rule attached to the fence mitigates this problem. The kick back issue is why I only have the rule overlapping the front of the blade by 1/4" once the plank has passed the end of the rule it has clearance and is no longer trapped. I also wouldn't recommend cutting between the blade and the fence if I was working without an attached rule or using anything other than a slitting saw blade.

So noted.  True, the techniques for working with a full-size saw may not be necessary with a modelmaker's saw, but it's information that might be very useful to someone someday.  I suppose a writeup about crosscutting with a miter gauge and stop block (not the fence!) might be a good idea too.  But I think a sled is a superior method.  The one above can handle pieces of 20" x 20" with ease and safety. 

[Bob Blarney]

Bruce, here's how a pro cuts thin veneer slices safely.

 

 

[bruce d]

51 minutes ago, Bob Blarney said:

... if the blade is in good condition and the saw is set up properly.

Bob, many thanks. I have recieved contradictory advice on what blade to use so if I can ask one more question: narrow or wide, maximum teeth or ????....

 

The goal is to produce thin strips, 6 to 10 thou thick, from holly and fruit woods. There are other pieces in other woods as well but I suspect these thin pieces will reveal my ignorance. I have previously only used a largefr bandsaw to cut metal and it didn't take long for me to realise that a small saw for wood ain't the same. Any pointers welcome.

Thanks,

Bruce

EDIT: by the time I posted this you had posted the video, thanks, I will watch it now!

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by bruce d

[Bob Blarney]

6 minutes ago, bruce d said:

 

The goal is to produce thin strips, 6 to 10 thou thick, from holly and fruit woods.

 

I think that this is not possible on a bandsaw that a hobbyist could afford, and likely not possible on a bandsaw at all. It would be necessary to rough cut, and work it down further from there.  For final thicknessing, I think a handplane fixture might be better than a sanding fixture.  

 

Hmm, standard furniture veneer is now about 0.020".  It is typically sliced off with a extremely sharp blade on a big factory fixture that slides from side to side for sequential flitches, or rotates like a lathe for plywood type faces.

[bruce d]

2 hours ago, Bob Blarney said:

I think that this is not possible on a bandsaw that a hobbyist could afford, and likely not possible on a bandsaw at all. It would be necessary to rough cut, and work it down further from there.  For final thicknessing, I think a handplane fixture might be better than a sanding fixture.   

Ouch. I will see what happens when I crank up the bandsaw in anger next week. The fact that I am looking for planks 3 to 10mm wide from the holly, not an entire leaf of veneer, will hopefully let me get a usable result. The variables of blade properties still trouble me but I suppose I should wait for the first cuts instead of trying to solve all mysteries in advance.

Thanks,

Bruce