HMS Speedy by Vane - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 - Master Shipwright (limited edition)

[glbarlow]

On 1/9/2020 at 10:36 PM, SpyGlass said:

Bending the gun port strips is an old issue - Speedy is nothing like as difficult as say Pegasus.

Soak the strip fit it and clamp or pin - let it dry - and then do it again !

A bit of time and you can get the strip to sit exactly without having to clamp it to shape as you glue.

Lots of Fly/Pegasus logs but heres a pointer to mine at the strip shaping point gunport strip shaping

 

I trace the outline of half the ship (from above view) from the plans, transfer that to a piece of 1x4 inch lumber, cut out the half hull profile with a scroll saw, cut a few notches into opposite side, soak the gunport patterns a few hours then clamp and rubber band it to dry on my board. 
 

The pattern then fits the ship perfectly and easily with no risk to the hull. I devised this when building my Pegasus, it also worked great on the bows of my Vanguard. 

[Vane]

Deckplanking is progressing... I just did it straight on and didnt care about using the engraved as a template. It would had been too tricky. 

[AlanDavison]

 I trace the outline of half the ship (from above view) from the plans, transfer that to a piece of 1x4 inch lumber, cut out the half hull profile with a scroll saw, cut a few notches into opposite side, soak the gunport patterns a few hours then clamp and rubber band it to dry on my board.  

 

Can I ask, why did you not use the kit provided patterns or am I missing something?

[AlanDavison]

Sorry, still don’t understand. You could score the kit template on the inside to help bending and you could clamp the wetted template to the kit sides to allow it to pre-form, leave to dry and then when happy glue the template to the model? Your method seems an unnecessary exercise.

 

 

[Vane]

6 hours ago, AlanDavison said:

 I trace the outline of half the ship (from above view) from the plans, transfer that to a piece of 1x4 inch lumber, cut out the half hull profile with a scroll saw, cut a few notches into opposite side, soak the gunport patterns a few hours then clamp and rubber band it to dry on my board.  

 

Can I ask, why did you not use the kit provided patterns or am I missing something?

I am not sure why u got that impression. I used them, see my earlier posts.

[glbarlow]

4 hours ago, AlanDavison said:

Your method seems an unnecessary exercise.

 

 

It is good practice and one I follow. Pre-forming on a firm board, rather than the somewhat fragile frame prevents breakage and is far less a struggle. The board, properly prepared provides firm and easy to access clamping points that also allow me to ease the pattern into the right shape. The ply on a gun port pattern is very stiff, and it is ply, too much soaking it will warp as it dries and possibly even delaminate. Scoring is not something I’d do.
 

Using this process actually saves me time, saves me from the struggle of fighting alignment on the boat frame, and provides a smooth unwavering pattern. You can put the patterns on it lots of ways, but this method works and works well. While the Speedy may be easier given it’s shape, I’d not managed to get the patterns on either Pegasus or Vanguard without it. 
 

While I’m sure there are many methods, this one has made my building easier.  I was just sharing what I do.

Edited February 22, 2020 by glbarlow

[glbarlow]

Post #19 in my Vanguard log is where I described fitting the patterns, it was a far bigger deal than the Speedy. I was more clever back then.  Sorry Vane, no more hijacking your log.  

 

[Vane]

I cant really follow the discussion… people seam to mix up my buildlog with others. Regarding the gunpatterns, I used the ones supplied and soaked them in hot water for a while and then glued them in place. It was a very easy process and they fitted very good. Chris design made this much easier than on my Snake or Granado. One thing that helps is the rabbit line so you basically just need to place it there and bend it in position. It is also great that the pattern is divided in two.

When it comes to the deck, I didnt use the supplied pattern but are working with my own maple deck instead.   

Edited February 23, 2020 by Vane

[AlanDavison]

Yes, that’s how I did mine. The fit is so good and the ply is so bendible(?) that apart from a little wetting there no need for building a separate jig (in my humble opinion). I did score the back of the lower transom piece as this aided in forming the concave surface and I think this helped as it reduces the tension on the glued surfaces. I also left off the transom pieces until I had fixed the rear gun port pattern to avoid the possibility of breaking them, and it worked fine.

[glbarlow]

I’m sure having the slots at the bow and a stockier frame with additional bulkheads make my process unnecessary on the Speedy. Chris designed a great model. Sorry I brought it up.

[Vane]

Finally done laying my "scratchbuilt" maple deck! 

 

Once it has been cleaned up i will post some comparison photos with the engraved. I think i took the right decision but the engraved would had saved me alot of time. But i want it to go better with my other builds so maple it is.

 

A couple of tips if you want to do it yourself is that you try to get hold of better quality wood that you dont have to sand on the sides. Also having a disksander for the tips is extremily helpful. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Vane

[Glenn-UK]

Looks nice. I'm undecided with my build, but I'm more inclined toward the laser cut deck at the moment but I'm tempted to try replicate the laser cut deck with actual deck planking.

[Beef Wellington]

Hi Vane, catching up a bit here.  I think you absolutely made the right decision, personal opinion of course.   I feel even a less than perfect deck gives a better look than a 'perfect' laser etched version, nothing like doing it yourself.  And I can relate to your concern for Diana, most definitely is time consuming.  'Jason' is on hiatus right now as I'm struggling to find some decent maple wood for the quarterdeck and fo'c'sl - my experience was the same as you - the maple I had to use for the upper deck required sanding pretty much every strip, and even when that worked out, there was some odd pitting on the deck surface that I just couldn't eradicate completely.  BTW - she's looking great!

[Vane]

Thanks Jason, I been missing your updates. Hope it sorts it out soon. Every plank i dont spend enough time on stands out.

 

I am not completely happy but here is the result after scraping. 

[AlanDavison]

For me it’s the etched deck every time, but I hope you enjoyed the exercise! Well done.Moving further on in the build, I’ve been pondering the anchor cable would be weighed. From the plans the anchor cable descends into the cable tier via the square holes in the foremost grating. To me this seems too soon, as the opening is very close to the bow and a long way from the capstan, so how would the messenger cable be fixed and used. Any advice from you knowledgeable folk out there would be fantastic.

[Bob Portsmouth]

You could try sanding with PVA and sawdust, otherwise well done

[Vane]

Moving on to the innerwalls... 

[Glenn-UK]

Looks very nice

[Vane]

Last plank of the 2nd planking and the strategy to use walnut under the copper paid of well... got about 20 leftover boxwood stripes to be used in other projects!

 

I skipped the CA on the top planks and went back to PVA and clamps. 

 

[Vane]

This is how it looks after sanding.  Boxwood is definitely the best mtrl to work with. Now on to trimming gunports and adding the whales. 

[DelF]

Looking good! The sanding shows how well you laid the second planking.

 

Derek

[Beef Wellington]

Looking good Vane!  Your right, boxwood is so much better than walnut to work with, and very nice planking job.

 

One question, it looks like you have the planking on the stern fascia going vertical.  Its the second Speedy build where the builder has done that and curious if its in the instructions?  Considering that the frames would be vertical, the planking would need to be horizontal like the counter.  The square tuck correctly has the planking vertical.  Probably very fixable now if you wanted to, not sure how visible it is though in person.

[glbarlow]

Great job on planking. The pear wood is nice, I wish I’d had the chance for the boxwood option. I can’t even find it to buy.  Yours looks great. 

[Vane]

7 hours ago, Beef Wellington said:

Looking good Vane!  Your right, boxwood is so much better than walnut to work with, and very nice planking job.

 

One question, it looks like you have the planking on the stern fascia going vertical.  Its the second Speedy build where the builder has done that and curious if its in the instructions?  Considering that the frames would be vertical, the planking would need to be horizontal like the counter.  The square tuck correctly has the planking vertical.  Probably very fixable now if you wanted to, not sure how visible it is though in person.

Yes i saw the previous discussion on this but decided to follow the manual. 

[DelF]

Here's what I wrote in my Speedy log in response to the same question:

 

"I've had a word with Chris, and he decided to go with vertical planking on Speedy based on his research which found many contemporary model pictures showing similar sized and period models with the stern planking running vertically, not horizontal or angled. Looking at my copy of the AOTS book on Alert I noticed that the transom had horizontal beams as well as vertical frames. The Alert book showed the transom planked horizontally, but depending on how the beams tied into the frames I imagine vertical planks would be just as possible as horizontal. I'm going to leave the planks as they are, mainly because of Chris's research, but also I quite like the alternating pattern of vertical-horizontal-vertical".

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

I think sometimes “because it looks good” is enough of an answer. If we’re not under contract to a museum we’re ok making a few aesthetic decisions on our own.

[Vane]

Yes i agree. I dont want to build my ships totally wrong but i mostly just want nice looking models to display in my home. Some variation between each one is just good in my opinion. And frankly, who will notice a thing like that besides like some of the People in this forum.

[Bob Portsmouth]

I'm of the opinion that all the planking would be horizontal with the exception of the square tuck, on Alert diagonal, on Cheerful vertical. This would make more sense than comparing it to brigs generally as Speedy is based on a revenue cutter design without aft cabins. This would also be necessary allow the planks to fit to the transom knees. However, in terms of the build, and the real ship, it's likely that the transom would be painted so the direction would be less visible (so leave it be Vane!!)

[glbarlow]

4 hours ago, Bob Portsmouth said:

Speedy is based on a revenue cutter design

I believe Speedy is a brig, Alert is the Vanguard model based on a cutter as is Cheerful. At any rate As did Vane  I’ll go with @Chris design when I build mine.

Edited March 14, 2020 by glbarlow

[Bob Portsmouth]

Speedy and Flirt are 2 ships (brig sloops) designed on cutter hulls for for speed and maneuverability. The only 2 in their class. Oddly they didn't take full advantage of the design (Cochran I think would have agreed!) If you compare the Greenwich drafts they are essentially identical, and, in fact, not that much bigger. I'm not talking about other models here but the design of RN ships at the time. So, in terms of the build I would say the the overall arrangement shares far more with a cutter than any brig of that era (Cruizer class etc). Since the transom is supported on knees I think the planking would HAVE to be horizontal. I think that Chris got this detail wrong.