HMS Speedy by Delf - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - Scale 1:64 - Master Shipwright edition

[Glenn-UK]

I had over 3000 copper plates to fit when I built Caldercraft HMS Victory. It was quite time consuming but looked really good when completed.

[glbarlow]

23 hours ago, glennard2523 said:

I had over 3000 copper plates to fit when I built Caldercraft HMS Victory. It was quite time consuming but looked really good when completed.

 

Same ship I did, it does look ok on the Vanguard - just not for me on smaller ships. I'm very happy I didn't do my Pegasus.  I'm also happy I didn't count the plates. 🙂

But as I said, really a matter of personal choice.

[GrandpaPhil]

I coppered both my Victory and Prince de Neufchatel with copper tape.

 

The only thing that I wish I had done different with the Victory is that I should have bought new tape and not secondhand tape.  It didn’t stick particularly well.

 

It was much easier to copper the Prince de Neufchatel.

Edited February 26, 2020 by GrandpaPhil

[DelF]

Not an update as such -second planking progresses slowly but steadily - but I thought I'd share my one aspect of my approach to plank bending:

 

As you can see, I'm using Chuck's edge bending method, but instead of doing one plank at a time I'm doing two. I've been trying to work as symmetrically as possible, port and starboard, so the tapering, the point of maximum bend, and the amount of bending should be the same on both sides. Obviously the two planks have to point in opposite directions to bend correctly as they are mirror images of each other, but so long as you put a little arrow indicating the position and direction of bend on each plank (as per Chuck's videos) you can't go wrong. 

 

I like to leave the planks in the jig for some time to ensure the bend is 'set', so doing two at once saves considerable time. Equally important, the method seems to work just as well with two in the jig as with one.

 

Derek

[Glenn-UK]

25 minutes ago, DelF said:

Not an update as such -second planking progresses slowly but steadily - but I thought I'd share my one aspect of my approach to plank bending:

 

As you can see, I'm using Chuck's edge bending method, but instead of doing one plank at a time I'm doing two. I've been trying to work as symmetrically as possible, port and starboard, so the tapering, the point of maximum bend, and the amount of bending should be the same on both sides. Obviously the two planks have to point in opposite directions to bend correctly as they are mirror images of each other, but so long as you put a little arrow indicating the position and direction of bend on each plank (as per Chuck's videos) you can't go wrong. 

 

I like to leave the planks in the jig for some time to ensure the bend is 'set', so doing two at once saves considerable time. Equally important, the method seems to work just as well with two in the jig as with one.

 

Derek

Nice idea, bending two planks at the same time.

[DelF]

 

On 2/25/2020 at 2:30 PM, glbarlow said:

First off I don't like the end appearance

Thanks - I understand your points. I still think I’ll copper Speedy, if only because it’ll be a first for me and I’d like to try it at least once. Also because Chris has gone to the trouble of producing the copper it would seem a shame not to use it. 

Meanwhile the second planking proceeds. Slowly!

 

Derek

[DelF]

8 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

Just a query Derek - where on the build do you intend putting these planks.

I have just been planning out my planking and I cant actually cant see any area which requires such a quite extreme bend.

Hi Spyglass 

 

They’re for the bow area. They may look like severe curves but they fit well. The planks always ‘relax’ a bit when released from the jig, so the actual curve you end up with is slightly less:

The important thing is to play around with the degree of bending until the plank sits flat on the hull and snug against the previous strake. I had to play around with the first couple of planks until I got it right, but it’s easy enough to re-bend a plank until it fits. Hope this helps. 
 

Derek

[glbarlow]

34 minutes ago, DelF said:

 

Thanks - I understand your points. I still think I’ll copper Speedy, Derek

I don’t mean to impose my opinion on anyone else. I hope you enjoy the process. 

[glbarlow]

38 minutes ago, DelF said:

Hi Spyglass 

 

They’re for the bow area. They may look like severe curves but they fit well. 

Derek

My same finding, I thought it was too much, but the bent boards lay in there so nicely on my little cutter project. 

[DelF]

On 2/27/2020 at 11:09 AM, DelF said:

you can't go wrong. 

Famous last words! The next pair of planks after I wrote this I managed to bend the wrong way, despite drawing arrows on them  pointing the right way. So much for slow and careful; at least it was easy to put right.

 

Derek

Edited March 6, 2020 by DelF

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, DelF said:

Famous last words! The next pair of planks after I wrote this I managed to bend the wrong way, despite drawing arrows on them  pointing the right way. So much for slow and careful; at leasdt it was easy to put right.

 

Derek

They didn't fit on the other side?  😄

[Gregory]

25 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

I really cant figure where that bend would sit

You seem to be familiar with spilling..  You might try this:

Take a piece of masking tape and lay it lengthwise on a plank that is on the ship, preferably one that butts up against the stem.  Trace the outline of the plank onto the tape.  Lay the tape out flat, and you should see how the plank is bent.

[paulsutcliffe]

1 hour ago, SpyGlass said:

Humm I think we may just have different approaches - I would normally handle such bends by tapering or maybe even a spot of spiling.

Not that I have any problem with side bending in itself - especially for first planking.

 

But i have just run out a set of strips and I really cant figure where that bend would sit - unless you are ending some planks against the side of others.

Put me out of my misery can you tell - or show  -where its goes ?

Watch chucks videos on YouTube of planking the Winchelsea, he explains it perfectly and how to measure the bend etc, really does make life much easier @Chuck I have always used a heat gun on the hull, but chucks approach simplifies everything, they can also be found on the cheerful and Winchelsea logs

Regards

Paul 

[dzerbato]

Spilling can be difficult at this scale given the width of the planks, but I've learned there are a lot of different ways to get the job done.

[DelF]

2 hours ago, Gregory said:

They didn't fit on the other side?  

I wish! 

[DelF]

2 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Put me out of my misery can you tell - or show  -where its goes ?

This photo shows the bow area where these planks go:

Apart from the first two (wale) planks, the rest are all tapered and bent to the same degree. I know it probably doesn't look great, but this is actually neater than I've managed to achieve on other builds. The planks are all sitting flat to the hull and snug against their neighbours. Hopefully they'll sand well. 

 

This discussion just illustrates that there are different ways to achieve the same ends. I'm sure edge bending isn't the last word in planking, but I find it a relatively easy and quick way to achieve reasonable results. I think if I ever get to grips with the Winchelsea model with its single planking, I'll have to up my game and master all the necessary skills, including spiling. 

 

Derek

[DelF]

Looks neater than my workbench! Good luck with the house move.

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

On 2/27/2020 at 12:18 PM, SpyGlass said:

Humm I think we may just have different approaches - I would normally handle such bends by tapering or maybe even a spot of spiling.

You have to try this to see how well it works. I still taper the planks based on the measurements, this doesn’t replace that. As we know the bow curves both in and down. You probably, like I used to, achieve this double curve by soaking and twisting. The bent plank looks weird by itself but it lays on to the double curve perfectly. It takes a little practice but once you learn it it’s all you’ll ever do. The “traditional” way leads to warping and swelling, this way leads to perfect fits around the bow and stern. It’s appropriate to use on any model with a bow. Watch Chuck’s videos for more on how. I actually got more from when he’s at a workshop. 

 

You can view my gallery photos, I did ok with the old way on all those models, this way is just so much better for me. That said, to each his own way. Whatever makes you happy.

 

Sorry to hijack your log Derek, but here's a photo of my little cutter project underway.  I don't think I'd get such a nice even upsweep of the planks using my old method. The Lady Nelson has even less bow curve than Speedy.  I started bending and tapering at the first walnut plank below the wales. The counter-intuitive thing is you bend the plank down and as a result it curves up with the double curve of the bow. (Chuck should give me a marketing credit:-)

Edited February 29, 2020 by glbarlow

[DelF]

13 hours ago, glbarlow said:

 

Sorry to hijack your log Derek,

 

31 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

Sorry for diverting your log Derek !

 

Don't apologise gents! This debate is interesting and enlightening for the less experienced amongst us - and I include myself in that category. Your cutter looks great Glenn, besides being a good advert for edge bending.

 

SpyGlass - during first planking I dried several planks on the MDF bulkheads. Ignorance on my part, as I wasn't aware of potential problems. However the bulkheads suffered no ill effects that I could see. That may be because I dried them with a hot air gun rather than leaving them wet on the bulkheads for any length of time. Equally, it might be because Chris has supplied quality MDF. Either way, rather than follow my example you might want to experiment on a spare piece of MDF from the kit first.

 

Anyway - back to Speedy. I've finally finished the second planking.

On the positive side, tapering and edge bending got every plank to sit flat on the hull and snug against its neighbours. Port and starboard sides ended up almost perfectly symmetrical - the final plank on one side was about 0.25mm wider than the other.

 

On the negative side, I did not enjoy working with CA. Although it made the work go faster and removed the need for pins and clamps, I could not avoid getting it in places I didn't want it, including the front faces of planks and my fingers. Also, the knowledge that large areas of the hull will be coppered allows you to get away with stealers and other triangular fillers - OK for this build but probably a bad habit to get into.

 

Having said that, I'm pleased with the result and am reasonably confident the hull will be fine after sanding. I'm not out to beat speed records on this build so I might take a short break now, and perhaps get on with the Pinnace.

 

Derek

 

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, DelF said:

Anyway - back to Speedy. I've finally finished the second planking.

Your planking looks great, did you bend the planks ...LOL, sorry couldn’t resist.

 

I’m just a CA guy I guess, but like plank bending, to each his own. That’s why this is fun, we can do whatever we want and have a pleasant discussion about it.  
 

Don’t be gone long Derek, you may find we’re using your log to discuss the merits of fine scotch 😂

Edited February 29, 2020 by glbarlow

[glbarlow]

3 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

which cutter is that and whats the finish

It’s another Chris Watson design (he says from decades ago), the Lady Nelson. I started after a 3 year layoff before I knew about Vanguard models. It’s basic, but fun.  The finish is Satin water based Poly.

[DelF]

58 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Don’t be gone long Derek, you may find we’re using your log to discuss the merits of fine scotch

 

That's OK by me - I've just finished a very fine Lagavulin 🥃 🤪

 

1 hour ago, SpyGlass said:

could I suggest you could even pause for a minute after sanding and try the effect of a bit of stain varnish or wax before you copper

 

Good suggestion - I might well do that. I generally prefer the beauty of wood, but on the other hand I've not coppered a hull and may decide to give it a go regardless. I won't rush into a decision. Another malt or two first, I think.

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, DelF said:

Lagavulin

Good stuff. Macallan for me. I visited the distillery in Scotland, highlight of the trip. 

[PhillH]

Has anyone coppered just one side?

It would give you the opportunity to see your planking and the coppering.

 

Regards

Phill

 

[DelF]

23 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

As to scotch - I dont care what brand it is as long as its with Schweppes dry ginger. 

Dry ginger with good single malt? Sacrilege! I might join you in a Newky Brown though.

 

22 hours ago, glbarlow said:

Macallan for me. I visited the distillery in Scotland

I love the Islay malts but haven't visited the island. My favourite distillery was Highland Park in the Orkneys. My wife and I were the only visitors but we still got the full tour. 

 

22 minutes ago, PhillH said:

Has anyone coppered just one side?

Interesting idea Phil. I might wait for some other brave soul to try it!

 

Derek

[Edwardkenway]

Tallisker distillery on Skye do a decent malt.

7 minutes ago, DelF said:

Interesting idea Phil. I might wait for some other brave soul to try it!

I'm coppering one side of Triton if the second side of planking looks ok!

[DelF]

I'll look out for that!

[DelF]

I've had a good go at initial sanding. I still need to thin down the area where the stern post will fit, but otherwise I'm quite pleased with the result so far. Edge bending went well. There is some variation in the wood colours, but that won't be as noticeable when the wale is painted and the hull coppered below the waterline (I think I've decided to go down that route). In the following pictures I've applied some sanding sealer as a reveal coat, in other words to show up any areas needing further sanding. 

 

The run of the strakes may offend purists - especially in the lower hull area just behind the bows - but that will be covered by plating and for me the pleasing thing is how flat all the planks are laying. Having said that, I'm keen to try the edge bending technique in conjunction with properly marking out the frames. For example as Chuck has done with the Winchelsea group build.

 

I'm glad this part of the build is nearing completion - I'm relieved I've not made a total hash of the hull - and I'm looking forward to the next stage.

 

I must say it's great to follow along with other people's logs now that there are several of us in the Speedy club, and I'm looking forward to seeing SpyGlass catching up now that he's got his accommodation sorted.

 

Derek

Edited March 4, 2020 by DelF

[Glenn-UK]

Looks very nice. I had never tried edge bending before but made the planking job so much easier.

 

I was not too bothered about the standard of the planking once I got below the waterline, but actually I was pleased with my end result.

Edited March 4, 2020 by glennard2523

[glbarlow]

I'm not sure what "purists" would be bothered by, I think it looks great.  Nice job!