US Brig Syren by WalrusGuy - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - Second wooden ship build

[michael mott]

Would it not be in order to pack the gap with small wedges of wood like this.

 

here are a lot of examples of wedges

 

Michael

Edited February 12, 2021 by michael mott
add a link

[WalrusGuy]

49 minutes ago, michael mott said:

Would it not be in order to pack the gap with small wedges of wood like this.

 

here are a lot of examples of wedges

 

Michael

 

That makes sense! I never knew that's what's done in actual practice.. I checked other logs of the Syren and it seems that it fitted snuggly on all of them. I also prefer the clean look.

 

If I struggle too much with it or if my attempt fails, I may opt for having it loose for wedges to fit in based on the reference pictures provided.

[michael mott]

24 minutes ago, WalrusGuy said:

I checked other logs of the Syren and it seems that it fitted snuggly on all of them. I also prefer the clean look.

Perhaps yours would be the only one following actual practice then.

 

Michael

[Keithbrad80]

1 hour ago, michael mott said:

Would it not be in order to pack the gap with small wedges of wood like this.

I could be totally wrong here, but I noticed in that link that those wedges are only present on smaller vessels. I feel like in real life the wedges wouldn’t have been sufficient enough to hold the masts in place. Again, I could be totally wrong, thats just an observation. 

 

Bradley 

[desalgu]

Love your preliminary rigging above the mast platforms, especially the dark brown color.  It looks a lot more realistic than rigging thread provided in the kit that I used.  Your model is looking great.  Also loved the photo with plans in the background.  When I get finished, mind if I copy that idea? 

 

Your model is a definite step up from mine.  The rigging thread and block upgrade alone is a big improvement.  I keep finding little rigging mistakes that I've made after it's too late to do anything about it.

 

I guess I'd go with making new mast coats to fit.  I don't think wedges would look right, and agree that I don't think they'd use them on  a real ship for this purpose.  I don't have a lathe either, but would try to drill & file hole in small sheet of wood of the right thickness.  And then cut the circular outline on jig saw (or hand coping saw).  The rest would be a lot of hand sanding to shape.  It might be possible to simulate lathe with drill motor, but I've not had much luck doing that except for sanding in a taper on a dowel or something simple like that.  I think mast coats are too small for that approach.  

 

Your craftsmanship is so wonderful, I'm sure you'll be able to make good ones, probably better than what was in the kit!

[WalrusGuy]

Thank you for the helpful comments!

 

 @desalgu, I have seen some images on the forum where the plans have been used on a display base, as shown here. In my case I just used the plans to work on the model since I can easily look at or measure something quickly. They are just attached with Blu Tack temporarily. But feel free to go ahead to use this idea, it would look much better without all the creases! I have seen many other builders here use the same technique Thanks again for the nice words. Your model is brilliant, I have been admiring the progress showed in your log. She's a real treat!

I did a bit of research on the wedges, it seems like they were used for this sized ship. I found this link where it mentions they were used for keel-stepped rigs, which the Syren was. I guess they were just meant to keep the mast steady and not shift all over the place, and the stays and shrouds did most of the heavy lifting to keep the masts stable. Chuck's instructions on the Cheerful mentions they were "plain ugly", so this may suggest that wedges were used 😄. He also mentioned that contemporary models had fancy profiles on their coats. So this could be where some artistic freedom can be applied

 

Anyhow, I managed to make some with the fancy profile. Before, I was thinking of painting them black, but now because of the profile I will keep natural

 

Here is the process I used to create them:

 

First, I did what desalgu suggested, by drilling a hole for the mast to fit snug in 1/16" basswood sheet. I do not have drillbits of this large diamater, so after drilling to a smaller hole size, round files were used to enlarge the hole. Using a jeweler's saw, I cut out the circular profile

Next I smoothened the outside circular edge, then rounded it using needle files:

After seeing the Cheerful's lovely coats, I wanted to try out shaping it some more, so using the flat edge of a half round needle file (For the sharp edge), I sanded off sections of the top to create a 'step':

Then, using a thin piece of wood as a guide, I sanded off the middle section so that a step at the bottom can be created:

Finally, it was sanded smooth, and tung oil was applied. Here it is dry-fitted on the deck:

[Justin P.]

Nice job!   I love knowing that so much can go into a decision over what will ultimately be a trifling detail to the casual observer!    Interesting website reference as well...   reminds of those subscription services where they will send you historic letters from dead VIP's.   

 

 

[michael mott]

A nice job on the mast coat

here is a similar one to yours.

 

Michael

[StebbinsTim]

Beautiful work.   Your postings are extremely informative.    I recently purchased the Syren kit and look forward to reviewing your posts for help and guidance in building.    

[WalrusGuy]

9 hours ago, Justin P. said:

Nice job!   I love knowing that so much can go into a decision over what will ultimately be a trifling detail to the casual observer!    Interesting website reference as well...   reminds of those subscription services where they will send you historic letters from dead VIP's.   

 

 

I am still pondering whether I should go the more realistic route with the canvas covering the wedges, but so far I am leaning towards the simple representation. 

 

6 hours ago, michael mott said:

A nice job on the mast coat

here is a similar one to yours.

 

Michael

Thank you, Michael. It's nice to see them side by side for comparison!

 

4 hours ago, StebbinsTim said:

Beautiful work.   Your postings are extremely informative.    I recently purchased the Syren kit and look forward to reviewing your posts for help and guidance in building.    

Thank you for your nice words! I'll be looking forward to seeing your build log if you decide to set that up. It is highly recommended since you'll get invaluable advice on your build! Good luck!!

[desalgu]

Beautiful mast coats!!  I knew you would go the extra mile and add more detail.  Your method is exactly the way I would have done it, except I wouldn't have thought of the extra little steps.  I've done lots of little parts like this over the years for model airplanes.

 

These little details are worth the effort.  It's surprising how much it adds to the model, although the vast majority of people looking at it won't know the difference.  But you and other modelers will.  This is inspiring me to attempt another build.  It really helps to see what others have done.

[rraisley]

It's disturbing to see details roughed out by hand looking better than I could do with a lathe or purchased item. Definitely disturbing.😾

 

[WalrusGuy]

Thanks so much for the great comments!! I decided to try making the realistic ones, and ended up using that one instead of the simplified wood carved one. I believe this is a very important detail to include. Michael helped me understand their purpose. The wedges help the mast from shifting after it was stepped through the deck, and the canvas coat would protect the wedges from water leaking into the hull. 

 

Learning this, I just had to (or attempt to!) create the accurate representation. I followed Ed Tosti's method for parts of the coat in his Young America log (linked here). I also used some of the descriptions from TFFM vol 1 to understand how they were assembled, then went by making the wedges by what I felt worked best for my case. They required a lot of careful work, but I really enjoyed making them. This will be a long entry, but here goes!!

 

I first cut each of the wedges from 1/8" x 3/16" dimensioned wood. I didn't measure their length, and just eyeballed:

Then used a rounded needle file to make the shape of the inner part of the wedge. This was so that the wedge can have maximum adhesive surface to glue onto the mast:

Did some quick math to find out how much of I needed to cut so that all the wedges fit nicely around the mast:

Marked the location on the "curved" side using a caliper, and sliced with an Xacto knife:

Next I marked the location where I want the notch, and chiseled to that point:

The location where they need to be glued on the mast was then drawn and the base of the notch was aligned to that line when being glued:

The mast hole was also enlarged a bit. Then the bottom of the wedges were sanded so that it can fit snug:

The top of the wedges were chiseled, then sanded to be round:

Now, I followed Ed's procedure.. The canvas was simulated with tissue paper. I used diluted wood glue to stick it on the wedges. A card was cut at the base:

I then used 0.012" rope at the top and base. To simulate the tar, the canvas was painted a dark grey color, and finished with very dilute black paint. 

And that's it!!! Here it is (the mast still dryfitted)

With this method, the masts are much more stable and snug than before, but still a bit of wiggle sideways (since the bottom of the mast has room to move in the larger spacing below the wedges). So I am thinking of just gluing the bottom of the coats once I decide its time to fix them in

Edited February 15, 2021 by WalrusGuy

[Keithbrad80]

Great work! Your method seemed very well thought out and obviously well executed!

 

Bradley

[WalrusGuy]

7 hours ago, Keithbrad80 said:

Great work! Your method seemed very well thought out and obviously well executed!

 

Bradley

 

Thank you Bradley!  

[desalgu]

I agree, awesome!!  Great research also, figuring out that this is the way they were likely done for real.  For a model, your first ones were also excellent even if a little "classy" for an old sailing brig.  I got a kick out of covering them with tissue.  Reminds me of model airplanes! 

 

We are getting what feels like Canadian cold here in Kansas this week.  I started anchors today.  Looking ahead I'm a little confused by his rigging instructions, and there's nothing shown on the plans.  

[michael mott]

That is very nice, it add a detail that is sometimes overlooked, and now you will be able to explain what the black canvas looking part is for. Well done!

 

Michael

[WalrusGuy]

11 hours ago, desalgu said:

I agree, awesome!!  Great research also, figuring out that this is the way they were likely done for real.  For a model, your first ones were also excellent even if a little "classy" for an old sailing brig.  I got a kick out of covering them with tissue.  Reminds me of model airplanes! 

 

We are getting what feels like Canadian cold here in Kansas this week.  I started anchors today.  Looking ahead I'm a little confused by his rigging instructions, and there's nothing shown on the plans.  

You would just love to hear that silkspan, a common material used in model planes, is also used in model ships for sails!

 

You are so close to the finish line!! Does this help? I found it in the instructions. I tried looking in other sources, but could not find a clear answer. You could also check out some of the finished logs of the Syren to see how they did this (linked here)

Also heard it's getting cold in Texas, it was in the news here a couple days ago. It's actually starting to get a bit warmer here, last week it almost reached a windchill temperature of -50 deg c! 

 

11 hours ago, michael mott said:

That is very nice, it add a detail that is sometimes overlooked, and now you will be able to explain what the black canvas looking part is for. Well done!

 

Michael

Thank you Michael! I also had a lot of fun building them. 😄 

[desalgu]

Thank you for bringing my attention to the little drawing of anchor rigging.  Somehow I overlooked it.  That rigging was hidden in the photos, but the drawing makes it clear.

 

So far struggling with rigging buoy floats.  It's a challenge.

 

[WalrusGuy]

Making some slow but steady progress 😄 

 

I deviated a bit from the instructions when making the chain plate assemblies. I didn't make a jig to bend them. I instead used a combination of pliers, fingers, pins of different sizes, and a caliper. At first my work was very sloppy, but after making a couple I got the hang of it. Here is a pic of the toe link before being cut off. It's a bit hard to describe the process used in detail, since I just did it based on what I felt was intuitive. It just involved lots of bending and squeezing! 

Some other deviations included bending the bottom part of the toe link to be flush against the hull. I also bent the bottom part of the deadeye strop so as to be pulled by the other links. I am going to use the brass photo etched plate preventer links instead of using wire after reading TFFM vol 2. These should be made of square metal plates and not round. I bent these to accomodate for the spacing for the toe link. 

Overall, this part of the build was very tricky... At first, I didn't enjoy at all since I don't like working with wires and metal... I had to force myself to work through it.. I was very close on settling on the links I finished. Then I took a few days break, read a few logs and the TFFM books on these assemblies, and came back with a freshened mind. 

 

I decided I needed to correct some items. These being:

1) squeezing the wider part of the toe link thinner, so as to immitate it being stretched under tension from the shrouds;

2) making sure all the toe links look similar to each other (before they were slightly different sizes) ;

3) shortening the middle links by a snudge, so all the preventer links can fit above the wales and are roughly the same height; and

4) increased the respective slot size so they fit nice and flush.

 

Here are some pics of what they look now with the moulding strip holding the assemblies in place; 

I will next install the preventer links. I increased the working height using some yoga blocks so I don't have to bend to see where to drill the holes 

I also received the 5/32 in single block, and have attached it to the mast. Now the masts have been glued lightly in position. 

Before I was thinking of getting started on the yards, but now since everythings very close to be ready for standing rigging, I want to do that first. I've been looking forward to this part of the build for a long time!! Maybe doing yards later on would be a nice break from all the rope work! 😁 

Edited February 23, 2021 by WalrusGuy

[WalrusGuy]

I finished installing the preventer links on the starboard side. They were really fun to put on once I figured out the process! 😁

 

I first inserted a pin in the eye of the toe link to mark the position of where the hole is to be drilled. The holes were drilled with a small bit then increased until I could fit a brass nail. I tried blackening the nails but it was very blotchy, so I ended up painting them after they were stuck with some watered down black paint. Also had to cut the nails in half since they were too long.. Here are some pics: 

For future projects I'll try to silver solder the loose ends of the links so they are seamless. 

 

Next step is to finish installing them on the other side, then I can finally start some rigging!! 

Edited February 24, 2021 by WalrusGuy

[uncarina]

Just catching up here. Your work is truly marvelous! I am learning a great deal here, and admire your initiative and ingenuity. For example, the trennels on the deck look much more authentic than I’ve seen using other techniques. If I may offer a humble suggestion, a small drop of medium to high visosity CA applied with a toothpick then painted could be used to seal the gap in those links. In any case, I will be following your work with interest!

 

Cheers,  Tom

[WalrusGuy]

5 hours ago, uncarina said:

Just catching up here. Your work is truly marvelous! I am learning a great deal here, and admire your initiative and ingenuity. For example, the trennels on the deck look much more authentic than I’ve seen using other techniques. If I may offer a humble suggestion, a small drop of medium to high visosity CA applied with a toothpick then painted could be used to seal the gap in those links. In any case, I will be following your work with interest!

 

Cheers,  Tom

Thanks so much for the compliments and advice, Tom! I'll try using that technique on some scrap wire first, not sure if the black paint would appear "too black" on the wire. If it blends well I'll do it on the model. Thanks again!! 

 

And thanks all for the likes as well 🙂 

[uncarina]

It is my pleasure! I am still catching up, and I’ve been really enjoying the journey. The black was just a suggestion based on a cursory guess of the color, but perhaps brass might be a better match! In any case Vallejo paints are really good for brush painting touch-ups. Now back to my reading and saving photos for reference.

 

Cheers,  Tom

 

 

[desalgu]

Very nice work as always.  Your's always looks more precise or cleaner than mine.  

 

I've used CA technique for closing gaps in little wire fittings and it works.  I used straight pins to apply small dabs of CA instead of toothpicks, but it's the same idea.  And you are also right, plain flat black doesn't quite match the wire color.  But you can thin it into a wash and I thought it looked fine.  It helps that size is so small, you don't notice that it's not a perfect color match.  Closeup photos make things look worse than they are.

 

I didn't try doing it until further along with my Syren.  I'd struggle with something like this and then later on figure out a better way to do it.  But by then it's too late to go back, so I've got some inconsistencies as I was learning.  

 

Obviously I need to get some reference books.  What is TFFM?  And are there any other books you can recommend.

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, desalgu said:

Very nice work as always.  Your's always looks more precise or cleaner than mine.  

 

I've used CA technique for closing gaps in little wire fittings and it works.  I used straight pins to apply small dabs of CA instead of toothpicks, but it's the same idea.  And you are also right, plain flat black doesn't quite match the wire color.  But you can thin it into a wash and I thought it looked fine.  It helps that size is so small, you don't notice that it's not a perfect color match.  Closeup photos make things look worse than they are.

 

I didn't try doing it until further along with my Syren.  I'd struggle with something like this and then later on figure out a better way to do it.  But by then it's too late to go back, so I've got some inconsistencies as I was learning.  

 

Obviously I need to get some reference books.  What is TFFM?  And are there any other books you can recommend.

Thanks for the comment Desalgu! I think I may skip putting CA on the links (for now) since some of them are a bit too wide apart and some are not in line with the partner link, so putting CA in these sections may magnify these flaws. The only way to fix this would be to try to move the individual links to be in line, which would be a bit difficult since all of them are already mounted on the hull, and have a bit of tension on them. I'll for sure keep this in mind for next time where I will make the seamless fitting before mounting them.. Also from the naked eye it is a bit hard to find these gaps, only with the camera with the close ups I can see them as you mentioned.

 

TFFM stands for The Fully Framed Model series. There are 4 volumes in total which cover everything to do with building a fully framed Swan class model from scratch. They can be found from SeaWatch Books (https://www.seawatchbooks.com/SWBTitles.htm). The plans that the books refer to are available from Admiralty models (http://www.admiraltymodels.com/Plans.html) There are a lot of tips and tricks that can be used on other models as well. Vol 1 and 2 cover the hull construction, Vol 3 is a build log with a lot of photos, and Vol 4 is on rigging. For the rigging I have been following the 4th volume very closely to see which lines would be served, how to lash, make splices, etc. They are a bit costly but are very well worth every penny! I also plan on building a Swan class sloop in the future once I get the space to put power tool and such, which will most probably be after I graduate. These books would be essential for that. Another book I recently got is James Lees 'Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War,' which is another very handy reference for rigging. Rigging Period Ship Models by Lennarth Petersson is also very nice, it breaks down rigging into simpler steps. That book only has images and no text accompanying them. 

[WalrusGuy]

I finished installing the portside chain plate assemblies! Thought I'd share some more pics before she gets all tangled up with ropes!! 😄

I'll start with all the pendants then work on the lower shrouds 

[Justin P.]

Looking wonderful!   I bet those chain plate assemblies are bit of a pain!   

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, Justin P. said:

Looking wonderful!   I bet those chain plate assemblies are bit of a pain!   

Thanks Justin! Glad to be done with them. They were very fiddly and tiny to work with!! 

[desalgu]

Wow!  Love your photos, and I'm still amazed at how nice the copper hull came out.  It looks great.  And every time I see gun ports, hammocks, and netting, it's impressive.  I have no idea how you manage this going to grad school.  Back then I was into model airplanes which are much simpler, but didn't have room or time for anything like that.  

 

I know exactly what you mean about photos showing everything.  When I look at closeups of mine, I see all kinds of little mistakes, and some not so little.  It looks better in person at "normal" size.  The chains look great.  I don't think I filled the gaps in wire on the chains either.  I think I started doing that later when making some of the rings.

 

Also, I can't thank you enough for the references.  I have the last one you mentioned that just has drawings of rigging, and I've referred to it a few times building Syren.  I will look into getting the others.  It helps to have all the information you can get.  I certainly wish I'd started using this forum a lot sooner.