HMS Flirt 1772 by drumgerry - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Scale.

[drumgerry]

Progress has been sloooowww...never mind.  I'm learning something new and for me that's not a quick process.  There's also a fair few steps in my version of this method so there's that as well. Anyway here's a few pics from what I've been doing.  The big metal beastie is my bending iron! 

 

 

Cheers, Gerry

[Edwardkenway]

Looks good Gerry, seems like you got just about sussed 😉

That's a monster of a plank bender!!

[DelF]

On 8/29/2020 at 6:04 PM, drumgerry said:

Is it just a question of measuring the distance between bulkheads and marking out the points on the planks?

If I've understood your question correctly, the answer's yes. Have you seen Chuck Passaro's planking videos? They're under <more> <planking techniques> on the menu bar.

 

Anyway, you're doing a really great job - your first planking looks as good as second planking so far!

 

Derek

[drumgerry]

1 hour ago, Edwardkenway said:

Looks good Gerry, seems like you got just about sussed 😉

That's a monster of a plank bender!!

Haha Edward.  Yes it does everything from guitar sides to model ship planks!

 

23 minutes ago, DelF said:

If I've understood your question correctly, the answer's yes. Have you seen Chuck Passaro's planking videos? They're under <more> <planking techniques> on the menu bar.

 

Anyway, you're doing a really great job - your first planking looks as good as second planking so far!

 

Derek

Actually marking out the between bulkhead distance wasn't so difficult after all.  I made a masking tape template of the plank shape I needed with the bulkheads all marked on it - used the tick strips to mark the size needed at the various bulkheads directly on to the plank.  One template for port and one for starboard although I'm going to make new ones for the garboard up to the place where I finish this band of planking.  Not sure if that'll work in the same way as the stern area is a more complex shape. - sort of seeing how it pans out as I go!

 

I'm also bevelling the top edge of each plank where it fits to the plank above and I'm getting a good fit between them - I only cottoned on to this a few planks in so the fit is getting better the further down the bulkhead I'm getting.  In the areas in the middle bulkheads I'm only sanding the inside top corner to get a good fit between planks - this is a technique transferred directly over from musical instrument building (specifically adding binding to instruments).

 

Thanks for the kind words guys - much appreciated.

 

Cheers,  Gerry

 

[Sjors]

That looks amazing!

Great job so far!

keep on going...

 

Sjors

[BobG]

Great planking, Gerry!

[drumgerry]

Thanks Sjors and Bob!  We'll see if you're still saying that when I finish the planking hehe!

 

Cheers,  Gerry

[Geowolf]

very nice and smooth lines, fluid without gaps! well done drumgerry!!! 👌

regards,

 

F.

[glbarlow]

23 hours ago, drumgerry said:

although I'm going to make new ones for the garboard

The tick strips and planking fan method works great to build a tight hull.  It's a good practice to recheck those tick strips every few planks just to make sure you're still on track.  Beveling the top inside edge of the plank is also good practice for ensuring a tight fit, something even us non-guitar makers know to do.  Your knowledge of musical instruments is of great benefit, you're starting way ahead of most first-timers. As you'll see from the Chuck videos for the planks to curve up and in at the bow they need to be bent "the wrong way" bent down.  Your monster plank bender might make the edge (vs. flat side) bending a bit of a challenge but I assume its a tool for your instrument making you're comfortable with, I'm sure you'll sort it all out.

 

Nice work, the first planking looks tight and well tapered.

[Sjors]

18 hours ago, drumgerry said:

Thanks Sjors and Bob!  We'll see if you're still saying that when I finish the planking hehe!

 

Cheers,  Gerry

@Gerry,

 

Have faith in what you are doing.

You do it better then de most of us for the first time!
Be proud of it, as I should be it when this was my first planking!

 

Sjors

[drumgerry]

Again guys thanks for the words of encouragement - really appreciated.

 

Yep Spyglass I'm going to try to make a gradual fade into the stem with the first planking and keel  - hopefully it'll work out.

 

Glenn - I know you're just pulling my leg a wee bit but I hope you don't think that I think I'm all that because of the guitar building thing.  The truth is I'm in awe of the skills displayed on the forum.  The ingenuity, the detail - truly inspiring.  I don't think instrument building would trouble a lot of the people on here if they were so inclined.  And yep the bending iron is from that arena - seems silly for me not to use it.  It has temp control and I'm used to it like you say.  Edge bending is ok with it but you need to apply the heat at the back edge of the plank as the wood fibres get compressed and if you bent it across it's width a gap would result.  The heat transfers so it works out.   My original templates are not giving me a perfect fit 7 or so planks down so new templates required I think.  One of the good things about the bending iron is you can easily adjust the curves up or down or lengthwise at any point.

 

Worrying about how I'm going to cope with planking the lower hull area.  After this band of planking I'm going to be left with a gap of about 6 planks width at the middle bulkheads but at the stern area the gap will be about 7-8 planks width.  I'm thinking stealers will be required.  At the bow I might have to taper the planks down too much so I'm thinking a drop plank there?  More new techniques for me to learn woohoo!

 

Cheers,  Gerry

[drumgerry]

8 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

I am too distressed with my own calamity and feel very reluctant to DARE to offer advice  but stealers at the stern are normal.

The plank next up from the garboard also rises a bit high - you might like to trim the top of that back maybe to half width ?

Just commented on your thread Spyglass.  These things are sent to try us.

 

It rises a bit high at the bow?  Ok....I could make a pig's ear trimming it "on model" perhaps.  Or remove it altogether.  Hmmmm......could I get away with it do you think as is?

 

Cheers,  Gerry

[drumgerry]

If I make a mess of it Spyglass I'll know who to blame!  Just joking!

[glbarlow]

21 hours ago, drumgerry said:

I know you're just pulling my leg a wee bit but I hope you don't think that I think I'm all that because of the guitar building thing. 

Not at all, I'm envious of having the skills it must take to build a musical instrument.  We build boats, but don't rely on the quality of our builds to create music...

 

Chris' designs are such you should not need a drop plank, provided you begin tapering early at the bow. I've not started my Flirt yet, a long way to go with Cheerful, I'd be surprised if stealers are needed, but they are relatively common and not a big deal - especially as the hull will be painted to the waterline so they won't be visible anyway. I do think perhaps your taper at the stern may be a bit too much. The tick marks there should go all the way to the keel, not just around the bulkhead. You end up sanding that down for the sternpost to fit, but the measurement should include the length of the stern. The number of planks at the stern should equal the length from the gunport pattern to the keel including curves - which makes paper tick strips essential to do the measuring.

 

I do all my plank bending with a board, clamps, and a travel iron. You'll see in my Cheerful log I bend any direction including some severe twists at the stern.  Cheerful is single planked so I had to be precise with the measuring, cutting, tapering, and bending.  It had no tapers at the stern, so there's that. Just to be contrarian, I don't think either bottom plank is too high, especially for the first planking and especially if you already think you need stealers.

 

A KEY point is this is your first planking - all you really need is for it to look like a ship when its done.  Fill it however it takes as long as you can sand it smooth to the shape it needs to be, including the abundant use of wood filler as needed.  The tick marks and the use of a planking fan might better guide the second planking to reduce the number of stealers, but as the hull will be painted using stealers on the second planking is fine.

 

I hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you more - I do explain a bit how I do it in my Cheerful build, linked in my signature line below.

[drumgerry]

Not to sound corny but using your skills to build something beautiful is music of a different kind.

 

I think you're right Glenn about the taper at the stern.  I tapered to 2.5mm from the full width plank of 5mm and I think, as I begin to see how large is the space at the stern that I have to fill, it would have been better to take those planks to 3.5mm or 4mm.  But that's information I can take into the second planking so I've learned something from doing it.

 

I thought about the planks at the bottom and decided to leave as is.  I just know I'd have made a mess and been unhappy with the outcome.  Right now I'm turning my mind inside out trying to come up with a way to plank the stern area.  I've remade my tick strips and plank templates and I'll plank down the sides a bit more then re-assess.  No matter what the space will have to be filled - elegantly or not doesn't matter.  I do though want to maximise what I learn from the first planking so that I can make as good a job as poss of the second layer.

 

I'll need to go off and read your Cheerful build for some more info I think. 

 

Thanks again to all

 

Gerry

[Chuck]

Its really not enough to just make tick marks.  If you take the next step and use thin tape or thread along your tick marks, you can see if what you measured out is correct.   Trust me as there will always be a ton of mistakes until you do this step which most omit for whatever reason.   With your tape in place from bow to stern you can adjust them until it looks right when viewed from many angles.  Then remark those tick marks along your tape which is probably now better positioned than your initial tick marks alone.  This step should not be skipped and its probably one of the most important.

 

Hope that helps.  You wont get any dips in the the run of your planks this way.  Its like a quick test before you cut a single planks from wood.

 

 

 

Chuck

[BobG]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

Its really not enough to just make tick marks.  If you take the next step and use thin tape or thread along your tick marks, you can see if what you measured out is correct. 

Thanks for reminding how important that step is and that I really do need to do it, Chuck. Fantastic photos as well!

[drumgerry]

12 hours ago, Chuck said:

Its really not enough to just make tick marks.  If you take the next step and use thin tape or thread along your tick marks, you can see if what you measured out is correct.   Trust me as there will always be a ton of mistakes until you do this step which most omit for whatever reason.   With your tape in place from bow to stern you can adjust them until it looks right when viewed from many angles.  Then remark those tick marks along your tape which is probably now better positioned than your initial tick marks alone.  This step should not be skipped and its probably one of the most important.

I'm just finding my feet and learning what's what Chuck so seeing those pics clarifies laying out the hull really well for me.  I did buy artists/pin striping tape from ebay and I tried to use it in the layout but it wasn't sticky enough. I managed after a fashion with it to lay out a couple of planking bands but no doubt with a bunch of mistakes. 

 

Like Spyglass says this is the first planking layer of a double planked hull so none of what I'm doing just now will actually be seen.  I'm treating it as a learning exercise though and I really appreciate any and all help that people such as yourself and the others on my build log have given.

 

I think I might have a go at laying out the hull as in your pics for the second planking with threads.  Did I read on one of the planking tutorials a little dab of hot melt glue at a couple of points is used to secure the threads?

 

11 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Dont get too hung up on tick marks etc for your first planking Gerry.

You REALLY are actually doing fine.

( Im NOT !!)

 

I  suggested taking back that lower plank to reduce the tapering you needed on the other strips to fill the gap.

Though - as you see from Chucks "lined out"  picture  - its good practice not to let the planking "climb" at the stem.

 

Chris himself puts stealers in first planking   - I am looking at my Speedy manual as I type which has some..

And I did notice he rather cleverly turns up the garboard strip at the stern a bit  for Speedy which really is like another stealer BUT for Flirt he  has turned that curve quite high - which sort of saves putting in about 2 or 3 stealers worth there ! You havent done that curve  so I reckon  2 /3 actual stealers should be fine

 

The whole garboard area is still pretty much a mystery to me Spyglass.  Over the course of the next 10 or so ship models I'm hoping it becomes clearer!

 

Cheers,  Gerry

[Vane]

If you are going to use copper or paint white, you only need to get the upper planks perfect. And those are much easier because of less bending. 

 

 

[drumgerry]

On 9/5/2020 at 10:26 PM, Vane said:

If you are going to use copper or paint white, you only need to get the upper planks perfect. And those are much easier because of less bending. 

 

 

Yep I appreciate that and I am doing more than I need to with my first planking here.  Just trying to learn how it all goes together and use it as a rehearsal for the second layer.

[drumgerry]

I've been slowly making progress with the first planking layer.... 

 

One side complete and the other nearly so.  It's gone fine I think although a little filler needed where the gun port strips buckled slightly when I fitted them. 

 

 

 

[drumgerry]

48 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

I do like the "fancy inserts" fore and aft !!

Is it a trick of the photo or have you been using subtle means and putting in a wider strip for the drop forrard ?

Well 'fancy' might be pushing it a bit Spyglass! 

 

Not a trick of the photo - good spot!  I had a 6mm gap at that bulkhead and 5mm strips - I wanted to make the join at a bulkhead.  Luckily I had a length of 12mm wide x 1.5mm thick lime wood lying about to cut a wider drop from.  Looks a bit off but hopefully I'll plan things a bit better on the second layer of planking. 

 

Cheers, Gerry

[drumgerry]

Lime is also used as linings for musical instruments  which is why I have some lying around.  You'd need to be able to thickness them down if you bought them from here for example...

 

https://shop.exotichardwoods.co.uk/lime-plain-lining-770-x-18-x-6mm.html

 

I have two huge planks of lime about 2 metres tall, 12 inches wide and 2 or 3 inches thick that I haven't quite got around to dealing with yet!

 

Cheers, Gerry

[drumgerry]

I thought I'd post this wee tip here as I used the technique when I was doing the drop plank on Flirt.  You probably all know this already and I don't mean to teach yer granny to suck eggs but it might be of use to someone reading this who's never seen it. 

 

OK... So instead of using mitre boxes, fine tooth saws or any other gizmos here's a quick way to get a perfect 45° cut every time. 

 

You need a large-ish chisel (1 inch plus) and it needs go have the back polished to a shine.  If you have the chisel but not the shine a flat surface and ever finer wet and dry papers to a minimum of say 1500 grit will do the job. 

 

Line your strip of wood along a straight line on your cutting mat and use the reflection of the chisel to cut your 45.  The pics below will make it clear if my explanation doesn't.  I should have made the cut using one of the boxes on the cutting mat to make it very clear but I re-lined it up after the fact for the final pic to do that. 

 

Hope it's of use to someone. 

 

Cheers, Gerry

 

 

 

 

 

[drumgerry]

I can't take the credit.  It's standard practice for putting binding on instruments and getting clean joins between the various pieces.  Try it Spyglass - you'll never go back!

[druxey]

I've won bets saying I can cut a perfect 45 without measuring using that method.

[drumgerry]

7 hours ago, druxey said:

I've won bets saying I can cut a perfect 45 without measuring using that method.

Haha brilliant! 

 

1 hour ago, SpyGlass said:

I tried it with my version - Admirals metal polish on a large snap off blade - then hit it with a hammer - works fine !!!!!!

 

But actualy in practice I very rarely use 45 joints - I prefer my planking joints to be a bit larger angle - no real reason just "feels" right

and for things like hatch coamings I prefer a simple lap joint

 

It works fine for any angle but you are winging it a bit when you're away from 45°.  A hammer?!!  A sharp chisel will only need downward pressure from your arm but I guess a Stanley knife or equivalent could be used in a pinch! 

 

Cheers, Gerry 

[glbarlow]

Clever recovery but Chris’ designs don’t require any form of filler at the bow, you may want to study your first planking pattern to determine where you went wrong before starting the second planking.  The number of full run tapered planks at the bow will equal the same number of full width planks midship. This where lining the hull and tick strips pay off.   Just trying to help. 

[drumgerry]

No that's absolutely fine Glenn. Thanks.  Yep I know that I miscalculated the number of strips but the good thing is that I did it in first planking and can learn from that. 

 

Cheers, Gerry

[drumgerry]

5 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

I was using a stanley knife  snap off blade!!!  I only keep chisels for opening paint cans😈

 And a hammer isnt quite as over the top as it seems I found that cutting wood across grain with a stanley blade or similar f gets a cleaner cut with an impact rather than pressure .

My tool use at sometimes anyway  is rather weird - partly because I have always been like that, partly because I am sloppy but partly now because I have a slight tremor left from a TIA and do have a slight problem in that due to a small accident my right biceps is actually only a monoceps !

However you get it done it's fine as long as it gets done eh Spyglass?  Sounds like you do just fine.  One of the good things about the chisel thing demo'd above is that it's slow and with a sharp chisel not much pressure is required.  The older I get the slower and steadier I like to take jobs.  It gives me more time to spot a balls up coming along!

 

Cheers,  Gerry