The Elusive Hulc by woodrat - FINISHED - 1:32 - plank-on-frame - a speculative reconstruction of a mediaeval merchantman

[woodrat]

I find myself at a crossroads and I dont know which way the Snark has gone. If I go down the present path I am committed to a long build of a putative vessel using vague assumptions and no hard data. The other path is to shelve the hull and complete my other projects. At the end of the day is this reconstruction TOO frumious to continue. What value is this build to anyone but me and the Bellman?😕

Dick

[PietFriet]

A hobby should be fun so if there is no enjoyment then I would go and do something else. One thing to consider is to pick one of the old images and replicate it as you see it. If you hang it behind the finished model, people will appreciate the model as something that reflects the art of that time.

[woodrat]

Thanks, PietFriet. Wise words. I think a little break from the build is needed.  There is still enjoyment and, having reviewed all my images, there is enough there to justify a reverse clinker model.

 

 

 

 

 

A frieze from the Chapter house of Salisbury Cathedral showing noahs ark dated to 1230 CE. Undoubtedly this shows reverse clinker and the sculptor has taken trouble to be accurate.

Dick🙂

Edited November 30, 2020 by woodrat

[Louie da fly]

I love the research you're doing, Dick. 

 

By all means take a break if you need one for the time being, and wait for inspiration to strike again. You're not on a deadline with this, and it's supposed to be fun, not a slog.

 

A fascinating build, though. Whether or not the prevailing academic theory regarding hulcs is correct, you're doing the physical research to show its practicality or otherwise, and I regard that as a very valuable addition to the sum total of knowledge in this area.

[woodrat]

This a drawing from Basil Greenhill's book "The Evolution of the Wooden Ship" 1988. I have not been able to produce such an abrupt upward curve in the upper strakes fore and aft.

So I have chosen this method:

[BANYAN]

You are progressing very nicely Dick; your 'construction' looks good.  If Basil Greenhill's  book has depicted these accurately from archaeological evidence, rather than an interpretation, perhaps these upper timbers may have been cut from naturally occurring bent timbers rather than forcing them to shape?  This would then allow for them to be bent in a single axis only.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited December 1, 2020 by BANYAN

[woodrat]

5 hours ago, BANYAN said:

If Basil Greenhill's  book has depicted these accurately from archaeological evidence, rather than an interpretation, perhaps these upper timbers may have been cut from naturally occurring bent timbers rather than forcing them to shape?

Basil designed this "hulc" out of his own head using his knowledge of extant patias of Bangldesh. There is no archaeological evidence yet of reverse clinker in the North apart from occasional scraps of futtocks and disputed wrecks which are probably clinker. Doing this hull is a good exercise and increases my knowledge of clinker hulls which will be useful in future builds . It will also make a great bread barge.

Cheers

Dick

[Tony Hunt]

I agree with LdeF. This is an exercise in practical archaeology, and it is not only fascinating but has real academic value. In my opinion, anyway! Keep up the good work, I love it.  

[Louie da fly]

There's certainly plenty of evidence that shipwrights used naturally curved timbers - in fact there's evidence that in Basque territory in the 15th and 16th century they went as far as to grow forests of trees trained to the shapes they wanted.

[mtaylor]

On 12/1/2020 at 11:44 PM, Louie da fly said:

There's certainly plenty of evidence that shipwrights used naturally curved timbers - in fact there's evidence that in Basque territory in the 15th and 16th century they went as far as to grow forests of trees trained to the shapes they wanted.

 

English did the same thing with oaks.  Not sure about France, etc.   Looking at Dick's post from Monday (I'm behind the curve here) that would seem to be the logical solution.

[woodrat]

I'm back and have had some fun finishing the planking of the hulc's shell. It is strong enough in longitudinal and lateral stress but has no resistance to torque until the cross members are installed. I have taken off the circular supporting timbers at the stem and stern and will replace them with something better. Some caulking, sanding and later oiling to be done. I DO like the lines, slinky-like but chunky. I think the next thing will be nailing of the planks to give it that extra reverse-clinky hulcy feel, pet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick

Edited January 13, 2021 by woodrat

[Roger Pellett]

Very nice work.  This is really experimental archeology.  Has this given you any insights into why builders would have used this method of construction?

 

Roger

[Louie da fly]

Good to see. Hadn't heard from you for awhile and was beginning to worry you'd given up on it. It looks really good - weird but good.

 

Looking forward to the next instalment.

[woodrat]

14 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Has this given you any insights into why builders would have used this method of construction?

Yes, in a way. This method without a keel gives quite a lot of strength longitudinally and mandates a somewhat shallower draught. This fits in with the theory that hulcs had their origin in the low countries and was fluvial. Hence the barge like appearance which was mentioned in connection with hulcs and which carried more cargo than cogs. The question is whether these were safe in the open ocean? It would roll like a bastard. The reverse clinker would also have made less leeway which would be handy in shallow waters and may lessen the need for lee-boards.

Dick

[woodrat]

Having made the shell, the question was: what type of framing? As this putative varmint was known to predate (and postdate) the cog and to derive from the low countries, it was thought safe to position it close to the nordic tradition. So, I have decided to base the framing and decks on the known wrecks the Suldelev 1 and 3. The Skuldelev 1 was a deep sea trader or knarr (knørr?) and was quite wide. It was a sea-going vessel and a reconstruction sailed around the world. It also was deep enough to transport horses (as seen in the Bayeux tapestry.

This was judged to be a suitable model for the frumious varmint.

 

So, how to make the floors. I presume these were made by eye and shaped to fit the clinker flooring. In order to do this I adapted and modified an analog plotter which I made to take lines of a half hull for my carrack.

 

 

 

 

 

first attempt.

 

This barge is going to hold a lot of bread!

Cheers

Dick

Edited January 26, 2021 by woodrat

[liteflight]

Excellent method for (scientifically) taking the shape of a cross-section and fitting the frame timber.  The tool resembles a phrenology device I remember from the last time I had my bumps measured!

This tool would also work if applied at an angle to the centreline of a hull, so that oblique frames could be precisely made.  There was discussion of this on KrisWood’s Oseberg ship 

(edit) A closer look at the tool led me to admire the bearing wheels!  So the workmanship  workpersonship of the tool is also excellent. 

 

Great workmanship, Dick, and a valuably practical examination of what we can know about the hulc.

Edited February 10, 2021 by liteflight

[woodrat]

Thanks, Andrew. I fitted the bearing wheels because there was too much friction without them which led to jumping and catching of the slide. Works well now.

Dick

[Louie da fly]

I love your analogue plotter. As Professor Julius Sumner Miller used to say "You could sack a city with that!"

 

I take it you have it somehow fixed immovably to the hull of the ship while you do your "plot"?

 

Steven

[liteflight]

Well, the prof could at least measure the city for a suitable-sized sack

Sorry  :-{

 

One of the learned Scots from the late 19th century said "if you can't measure it:  its an opinion"  Kelvin?  Maxwell?  

If I am good I would look it up:  

I did

Bother! and also Blow!

American business wisdom has grabbed and adulterated the quote. And Google in its wisdom gives preference to recent, money-making and US-sourced  

Stuff.  They concentrate on a version attributed to Peter Drucker.

Kelvin or Maxwell.  Physics based, I can now look it up in a book*

 

*Ancient source of discredited information.  Can't be browsed by Google.  Can be browsed by Andrew

[liteflight]

2 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

I take it you have it somehow fixed immovably to the hull of the ship while you do your "plot"?

I believe I see it clamped to a couple of robust T-Squares, but I expect that the traverse is carried out delicately, rather than uffishly

[woodrat]

 

I have here a model of a hulc, boys and girls. An ordinary mediaeval transport. I now wish to plot the internal profile of the specimen. Can you get the camera on it? Observe.. I now clamp the ship to the uprights of the experimental apparatus and support its inferior surface. Why do I do this? Because the hull is weak and cannot resist torsional or laterally directed force. What allows me to draw this profile, boys and girls? It is physics! The tip of the probe exerts a force equal to a glass and a half of full cream dairy milk AND the support under the hull exerts an equal and opposite force. So, Mr Newton is happy!

 

(my apologies to those who have never heard of the late great Julius Sumner-Miller. It's your loss)

 

Cheers

Professor Woodrat

[Louie da fly]

Beautifully elucidated, Dick! This man inspired a whole generation in Australia to get interested in science. I remember him explaining why it's possible to boil an egg at the top of Mount Everest, despite the water boiling at a lower temperature because of lower air pressure.

 

And for those who had a deprived upbringing . . .

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Louie da fly

[KrisWood]

Sorry I'm late to this one! I did some quick research and came up with the following:

 

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=hulc

 

Quote

hulk (n.)

Old English hulc "light, fast ship" (glossing Latin liburna, but in Middle English a heavy, unwieldy one), probably from Old Dutch hulke and Medieval Latin hulcus, perhaps ultimately from Greek holkas "merchant ship," literally "ship that is towed," from helkein "to pull, draw, drag" (from PIE root *selk- "to pull, draw").

"[A] word of early diffusion among the maritime peoples of Western Europe" [OED]. Meaning "body of an old, worn-out ship" is first recorded 1670s. The Hulks ("Great Expectations") were old ships used as prisons. Sense of "big, clumsy person" is first recorded c. 1400 (early 14c. as a surname: Stephen le Hulke).

HULK. In the sixteenth century the large merchantman of the northern nations. As she grew obsolete, her name was applied in derision to all crank vessels, until it came to be degraded to its present use, i.e., any old vessel unfit for further employment. [Geoffrey Callender, "Sea Passages," 1943]

 

I looked up the dutch "hulke" and found the following:

 

https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/medieval-ships/

Quote

The Hulk, in the English name “hulk” near to “wreck”, is, in fact, a derivative of an older term that is found in French (“Hourque”) and in Dutch (“Hulke”).

 

This last term means “jarre”. From the outset, he announced the two essential characteristics of this type of ship of the early Middle Ages, the full forms and its vocation of cargo. Related to the Cogue, the Hulk is a heavier and enlarged version, announcing the late nave as the Caraques of the fifteenth century.

 

A displacement of 300 tons or more, and the systematic use of many reinforcing bars, was a sign of it, as were the high-footed. Although three masts were the rule, the first are large Hanseatic Cogues with a mast.

 

He eclipsed the Cogue and cohabited for almost a century with the Caraque, rather widespread in the south. Its simple sail was faster to stir but the sail area was no less important. Thus his mainsail reached some 180 square meters.

 

But her maximum tonnage remained limited (800 tons anyway) by the choice of a construction on board. She was a perfect synthesis of the experiences of shipbuilders in the North and the South. The Nefs and Cogs that met during the crusades thus generated derivatives of the two influences in the north.

 

Mixed trade and war ships, these Hulks could be armed from 4 to 14 cannons. When the carrack spread to the north (supplanted a century later by the galleon), the last anachronistic Hulks disappeared.

 

This gives a number of analogues to compare to. It's closest related to the Hanseatic Cogues. The French and Dutch terms are "Hourque" and "Hulke", respectively. It's not a "nef" nor a "carraque", nor a "galleon".

 

Does that help at all?

[woodrat]

Thanks, Kriswood. Nothing helps, it's just a headache that wont go away. What we call this beast is perhaps less important than seeing if this keelless banana boat is at all feasible as a practical sea-boat. There is certainly no physical convincing evidence for them in the archaeological record (see early posts for all the craziness). Using reverse clinker certainly can produce a hull but would it sail as well as an old shoe? I don't have the computer skills to put the hull into a nautical design programme, but maybe someone out there in MSW Land could do this.

Cheers

Dick

[liteflight]

23 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

remember him explaining why it's possible to boil an egg at the top of Mount Everest, despite the water boiling at a lower temperature because of lower air pressure.

I was so deprived

But I had John Emery, who explained how boiling an egg at the top  of Everest was possible, in that the water would boil (85deg if I remember correctly),  EDIT ( I did not remember correctly, googling says 70 deg C) but the egg would not cook however long one boiled it because the albumen does not asggulate at that temperature.

Edited February 11, 2021 by liteflight

[Schrader]

On 1/25/2021 at 7:14 PM, woodrat said:

Having made the shell, the question was: what type of framing? As this putative varmint was known to predate (and postdate) the cog and to derive from the low countries, it was thought safe to position it close to the nordic tradition. So, I have decided to base the framing and decks on the known wrecks the Suldelev 1 and 3. The Skuldelev 1 was a deep sea trader or knarr (knørr?) and was quite wide. It was a sea-going vessel and a reconstruction sailed around the world. It also was deep enough to transport horses (as seen in the Bayeux tapestry.

This was judged to be a suitable model for the frumious varmint.

 

So, how to make the floors. I presume these were made by eye and shaped to fit the clinker flooring. In order to do this I adapted and modified an analog plotter which I made to take lines of a half hull for my carrack.

 

 

 

 

 

first attempt.

 

This barge is going to hold a lot of bread!

Cheers

Dick

Definitely this is a really good Idea!!!!  I would never go that far by myself. Well designed and even better executed. 
 

thanks for sharing 

[Louie da fly]

1 hour ago, liteflight said:

But I had John Emery, who explained how boiling an egg at the top  of Everest was possible, in that the water would boil (85deg if I remember correctly),  EDIT ( I did not remember correctly, googling says 70 deg C) but the egg would not cook however long one boiled it because the albumen does not asggulate at that temperature.

 

 

Same data, different conclusion. Sumner Miller stated that the assgulation (? is that a word?) temperature was below the boiling point of water at the top of Everest, so you would be able to boil an egg. I'm not an expert, and I'll leave it to them to thrash it out between them.

 

Steven

[druxey]

Coagulate is the word you are looking for. According to the Internet - which, as we know, is infallible! :

 

Egg whites coagulate at 60°C, egg yolks 65°C, with full coagulation occurring at 70°C. But, once again, we digress!

[Louie da fly]

Yes, I realised that after I'd gone to bed. Couldn't be bothered getting back up to correct it . . .

 

Back to our scheduled programming.

 

Steven

[woodrat]

I haven't neglected the hulc, folks. Here are the steps in the making of the Skuldelev-like mast-step/keelson using a piece of local hardwood from the park. The pattern in the wood is easy on the eyes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Dick