Roman Quadrireme Galley by Ian_Grant - 1/32 Scale - RADIO

[Ian_Grant]

Got the oars covered with three coats of Varathane exterior satin "Diamond Finish". Cured to a nice soft satin, surprising me with how nice the shafts look - the dowels were very pale. Here's a shot of the oars drying; just the 44 lower oars, I still have to make and finish 42 upper oars.

 

Also went to the shooting range and bought a bag of #6 lead shot. Was interesting watching people skeet shoot while I was there.

 

What is it with cats wanting to lie on all your stuff?

[BANYAN]

Those oars look fantastic Ian; a really nice finish on them even evident in your photo.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rookie]

those oars look great!

very fancy having the dark blade, like a high-end canoe paddle

[Hubac's Historian]

The oars look great, Ian - wonderfully uniform.

[Ian_Grant]

2 hours ago, rookie said:

those oars look great!

very fancy having the dark blade, like a high-end canoe paddle

Thanks!  The blades are from cherry cutoff I had around; looking forward to them getting redder and darker over time.

 

55 minutes ago, Hubac's Historian said:

The oars look great, Ian - wonderfully uniform.

Thanks Marc! All due to jigs...😉

[72Nova]

The build thus far is looking excellent!!, regarding your cat, I have a 100+lb dog that loves to do the same thing.

 

Michael D.

[Ian_Grant]

1 hour ago, 72Nova said:

The build thus far is looking excellent!!, regarding your cat, I have a 100+lb dog that loves to do the same thing.

 

Michael D.

HaHa!!  Well, at least our cat is easier to move!

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Now that I can see the workshop items I can see how large this is - it's BIG! What are you going to do with it after it's completely finished and proven? I'm also struck by the slight similarity to a beautiful, full size replica Viking boat I saw last week in Norway - the high prow and stern, gazillions of oars and so on. Just trying to tempt you to look at a variant, after this one 🙂. (https://sagastad.no/en/the-history/the-myklebust-ship/)

At least your cat looks like it settles. Ours, which is not even actually ours - it belongs to a neighbour but treats our place as its daycare facility - constantly prowls, howls and demands attention.

[Louie da fly]

22 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

I'm also struck by the slight similarity to a beautiful, full size replica Viking boat I saw last week in Norway - the high prow and stern, gazillions of oars and so on.

Similar solutions to similar problems. 

 

Steven

[Ian_Grant]

On 7/4/2023 at 6:59 AM, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Now that I can see the workshop items I can see how large this is - it's BIG! What are you going to do with it after it's completely finished and proven?

 

At least your cat looks like it settles. Ours, which is not even actually ours - it belongs to a neighbour but treats our place as its daycare facility - constantly prowls, howls and demands attention.

What indeed? Storing and transporting will be a chore. It will be 54" long and 22" wide with the oars thus very difficult to pick up in and out of water. I drilled holes in two bulkheads straddling the amidships point; plan is to add two metal supports, bolted in, with holes to attach some sort of handle when needed. Or maybe even have a permament handle rising to just below deck level.

 

In the longer term I'll probably get bored with it once the novelty wears off and try to sell it. Assuming it works at all.

 

As for our cat, he "settles" on our laps every time we sit down. 😉 My vet wife says orange tabbies are usually quite cuddly.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

An abortive first water test has been conducted!!!!!!

 

The port side mechanism is installed but only with the lower oars; upper oars need to be longer but I haven't made any yet.

Here are a few pics.

 

"Giant" scale sweep servo in port bow and linkage to mechanism. The standard size lift servo is just seen at left, along with the lift linkage at this end of the beam. Arduino electronics at centre. Still powering from a lantern battery for now.

Lift linkage at the aft end of the beam.

Shot from the bow.

 

It was a nice, though sweltering, evening at suppertime. While I was putting lead shot into ziploc bags a storm started to blow in. By the time I got the ballast right there was a gusty wind blowing. Between that and the pool's circulating current it was hard for the galley to react to its oars, but I can see it will be pretty weak. I conclude that Richard Braithwaite was correct when he commented these models are for calm days only. Does it work well enough to bother continuing? Test is inconclusive for now, bearing in mind that it only has half the oars on one side. Might have to drive oars unrealistically quickly to get tolerable boat speed. Still, it was good to see it function without its umbilical USB connection to the laptop. Will try again tomorrow if it's calmer.

 

ps My daughter watched and recommended adding a "cheat" propeller. 😭

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[Glen McGuire]

51 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

ps My daughter watched and recommended adding a "cheat" propeller. 😭

More proof that our kids are way smarter than we ever thought about being!

 

We need some pics or a video of the boat in the water!

[Louie da fly]

8 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

I conclude that Richard Braithwaite was correct when he commented these models are for calm days only.

Not only models. A galley caught in rough weather was in real trouble - if they heeled over more than 10 degrees water would come in through the oarports, and the vessels were inherently very unstable (as discovered by the people on board the Olympias replica - people walking around on the top deck made it heel over dramatically), and any sort of rough sea meant the oars wouldn't bite. 

 

Regarding the available power, these things were incredibly lightly built, as they had to be moved by human muscle - 30 metre (90 foot) galleys uncovered in the silted-up harbour of Thedosius in Istanbul (Constantinople) had frames about 2 inches square and planks about an inch thick - more appropriate to a small rowing boat than a full-sized ship. Whether yours is underpowered is another question. I can't answer that one. But Olympias managed to get up to 9 knots at top speed.

 

Steven

[Ian_Grant]

I think mine is perhaps more overweight than underpowered; I had to put in several pounds of lead to load to waterline. On the other hand it still lacks the second mechanism and the entire deck etc. When I guesstimated the ultimate weight of the wood hull I was conservatively heavy - better to turn out lighter and need ballast than heavier and sit too deep. You may recall I weighed my old battle-cruiser empty to see what its wood etc weighed; I'm wondering now if maybe I placed some ballast in the inaccessible areas in her bow and stern as I built her, 40 years ago.......

 

I'm thinking of replacing the oar blades with blades 1/2" longer to catch more water, since the loom length was increased by 1/2" when I changed the geometry of the outrigger. It would be a bit painful but perhaps helpful.

[mtaylor]

8 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

I'm thinking of replacing the oar blades with blades 1/2" longer to catch more water, since the loom length was increased by 1/2" when I changed the geometry of the outrigger. It would be a bit painful but perhaps helpful.

Maybe also a bit wider on the blades to help give it all the "grip" in the water they can get.

[Ian_Grant]

As long as I don't go past the point at which the grip on water requires too high a continuous torque from the sweep servo....🤔

[mtaylor]

6 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

As long as I don't go past the point at which the grip on water requires too high a continuous torque from the sweep servo....🤔

That's true so probably best to wait until all oars are done and tested since more oars in the water will help speed.

[Louie da fly]

13 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

I think mine is perhaps more overweight than underpowered; I had to put in several pounds of lead to load to waterline.

 

That could do it. But at least you don't have to allow for a bunch of tiny rowers getting exhausted . . .

 

Steven

[Kevin-the-lubber]

This is getting exciting! It sounds like it's coming out very similar to the real thing, and I for one will be really keen to see video. In the movies, galleons (and longboats) always look absolutely planted in the water and tear long at speeds that might tempt me to slip on a pair of water-skis. Steven's description brings it all down to earth though. 

 

Beside the full-size replica of the longboat in Norway was a large-ish model in a perspex case. Maybe, when you've had enough of it, you could offload it to a museum? You'd think it would be quite interesting to see a galleon actually moving through the water.

[Ian_Grant]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

This is getting exciting! It sounds like it's coming out very similar to the real thing, and I for one will be really keen to see video. In the movies, galleons (and longboats) always look absolutely planted in the water and tear long at speeds that might tempt me to slip on a pair of water-skis.

😆🤣

[Roger Pellett]

This is the tension that always exists between two aspects of Ship design; Naval Architecture (hull design) and Marine Engineering (propulsive power).  The resistance of the hull to the water through which it travels is usually separated into two factors; drag caused by fluid resistance and waves generated by movement of the hull.  Unfortunately, these scale differently.  Drag is proportional to immersed surface area and the square of velocity.  Wave making is proportional to velocity and the square root of waterline length.  Note that in conventional vessels neither of these factors are directly related to weight.  A heavily loaded Great Lakes 1000 ft ore carrier generates little wave making resistance doe to it’s low speed and long length.  Likewise, while drag is increased by the larger immersed  hull area, drag, the squared factor is minimized by the vessel’s low  speed.  This is why waterbourne shipping is so economical.

 

I would, however, argue that oared vessels are subject to a factor that is directly affected by weight: inertia.  Oared vessel’s are propelled by short bursts of power.  This is especially noticeable with very light rowing shells.  When racing, these boats noticeably accelerate with each stroke.

 

So how does all of this affect your model?  Put your Marine Engineering hat on and provide more power.  First, your model may work much better with the second bank of oars.  If not try increasing the rate of the stroke, and finally make the oar blades larger.

 

You have an advantage over the ancients; relatively unlimited power.  The trick is to connect it to the water.

 

Roger

[Ian_Grant]

Held my nose and ordered another aluminum channel beam from ServoCity, paying the usurious shipping rates to Canada and the inevitable "brokerage fees", shipping taxes, brokerage taxes, and Canadian taxes on the sum total ie taxes on taxes. I have some tea in the pantry; where's the nearest harbour?

 

Making slow progress on the 2nd mechanism. I want to make a second water test with all lower oars this week because we are leaving on the weekend for two weeks in the Yukon and NWT.

 

Here's a pic of current state.........

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I believe the interior rowing scenes form the Charlton Heston version of Ben Hur had unseen machinery to synchronize all the oars so that the sctors portraying miserable galley crew 'rowed' with amazing unison.   RAMMING SPEED !!!

[Ian_Grant]

Unfortunately I did not get the boat to the pool for a water test today so it must wait until we return from our trip in two weeks. The mechanical setup is complete ie. all the servos have their mechanical links to the oar mechanisms and the 2nd lower oar bar is fixed via the requisite hinges to its beam. I also added the aluminum rods at the stem for mounting the printed ram when available, and also to prevent water reaching the wood interior of these holes.

 

We need to finish packing so there's no time to install the Arduino, fire it up, and tweak the software to the actual physical connections of the servos in this final configuration. I expect the water test to be underwhelming. I plan to make the oar blades larger, but they will move just below the water surface. Deeper would be better but that would mean the loom ends would be higher and be interfered with by the deck beams. I can just see me reworking the mechanisms to shorten the oar looms (which would reduce their ultimate height) , if that is possible for the upper remes since they must reach the wall of the outrigger. Time will tell.

 

I used the shortest arm possible on the sweep servos, to get the two inch stroke at minimum torque load using a reasonable total rotation. The arm must move over 120 degrees; looking at this I recalled Bedford's comment of long long ago when he suggested linear servos which would give constant sweep speed. Since my sweep servo arms are rotating, and the software as presently written generates a steady rotation of the arms, the sweep speed along the boat's axis decreases as the angle of the arms increases. I'll need to change the software to accelerate the sweep servo arm rotation as its angle increases, to maintain a constant "delta-x", if you will, forward and backward. Haven't looked at the math yet, should just be some basic trig.

 

Here are a couple of shots of the boat "ready to go"; just needs electronics, updated software, and ballast.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Ian_Grant
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[72Nova]

Hi Ian,

I haven't checked in awhile and was worried I missed your test launch, just love your ingenuity and craftsmanship on this, just incredible. looking forward to a successful launch👍. Have a safe trip.

 

Michael D. 

[BANYAN]

Wow that is some nice work 👋.  I hope it all works for you, but I am sure testing may highlight a few small improvements or fixes to be made.  She sure will look a 'picture' on the pond/pool.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Glen McGuire]

Enjoy your vacation, Ian!  And I'm sure you won't think about your quadrireme while you are gone!!

[Ian_Grant]

On 7/29/2023 at 10:30 PM, Glen McGuire said:

Enjoy your vacation, Ian!  And I'm sure you won't think about your quadrireme while you are gone!!

I spent not one nanosecond thinking about it while passing down the Tatshenshini and Alsek Rivers from the Yukon to coastal Alaska. What a trip - grizzly bears, bald eagles, mountain views, hikes, glaciers calving into Alsek lake (where a polar bear swim is optional). Plus we got to fly back to Whitehorse in bush planes.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Ian_Grant
sp

[Kevin-the-lubber]

On 8/16/2023 at 6:58 AM, Ian_Grant said:

passing down the Tatsenshini and Alsek Rivers from the Yukon to coastal Alaska. What a trip - grizzly bears, bald eagles, mountain views, hikes, glaciers calving into Alsek lake (where a polar bear swim is optional). Plus we got to fly back to Whitehorse in bush planes.

That sounds fabulous! Was that a canoe trip or in something more comfy? I’ve wanted to visit that part of the world for ages, but am getting a bit old to be doing things the hard way now.

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Kevin, it was a rafting trip, three rafts, four guests and one guide per raft. Guide is at centre with oars, two guests at front and two back, guests can paddle if they like (or to keep warm!). All we really had to do was pitch our tents and set up air mattresses etc, pack them in the mornings, and take a turn doing the dishes. As they said, "It's your holiday so don't paddle unless you want to". The chief guide was a chef for seven years, the second guide was a sous-chef, the third loved to bake at camp. The meals were fabulous eg arctic char, thai curry chicken, fresh-baked brownies or cake. Only two of us opted to swim amongst the icebergs in Alsek lake, it was REALLY bracing!!   Great trip, but next time we think we'll go with canoes to be more active.

 

We were lucky to pick this trip as some other rivers had too much smoke and trips were cancelled. And the Dempster highway was opening and closing seemingly at random.

 

By the way, we met a few Brits in Whitehorse who had their motorcycles shipped to Anchorage, rode to Prudhoe Bay on the Beaufort Sea, had come down to Whitehorse, and were en route for Cape Horn; yes, THE Cape Horn. What an epic trip!

Edited August 22, 2023 by Ian_Grant