Free hull form creation training workshop

[Richard Dunn]

 

Over the last few months I have been asked to do some training on how to take lines plans and take them to the point in 3d that sections can be checked, new  frames cut, the plan can be checked and corrected for fairness and even things like planking and plating developed.

 

I will be covering a  lot more than this to, and will attempt to answer questions on the fly

 

I am based in Australia so will try to make a  time that suits as many as possible, but will record the lessons as well

 

I am a professional 3d artist and qualified trainer with many years in marine modelling, not so much the math side of Naval Architecture but the creation of hull forms in 3d from old plans or scan data, even how to make a lines plan from deck views and profiles with no  body plan.

 I will be running a free live workshop over the Xmas break using Zoom.

 

23rd Dec starting at 6.00am Brisbane time

4-5 hours

 

This post is to allow people to ask questions about the workshop and express interest so I can gauge numbers.

 

This post is not for discussion of other software if that is your goal I suggest starting a new topic, I will be showing the industry standard and it is the standard for good reason.
I ask that you please keep this to questions about content and interest only thanks.

I will be using the standard software for this work which is Rhinoceros 3D and although it is the ideal tool the lessons can be ported to other applications.
This workshop will be using fairly basic concepts and not be over complicated, but I would suggest you are familiar with working in 3d in some way however if you want to learn this later by all means come along and see how it’s done and then decide later if it’s something to learn for you.

 

Some of the topics covered include

 

Re-drawing lines accurately

Fairing curves and surfaces

Build a usable hull surface that can be used to build an accurate model

Develop frames, built up, ring  and bulkhead

Working with scan data

How to determine number of frames, How to know if lines are accurate

How to develop planking and tapers in advance

How to get this data onto your wood accurately

 

It will be several hours long with breaks

 

 A couple of members have already started practicing for this workshop  I believe

 

I will add more info as questions arise.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Braithwaite]

Richard,

I've also spent many years developing hullforms as a Naval Architect in England. Rhino is a great product, which I find really intuitive and easy to use. My main application was developing early stage concept design of warships and then rendered them using the addin renderer flamingo. My workflow generally involved developing the hullform in Paramarine and then importing the iges surface into Rhino to develop the superstructure and detailed 3D model for visualization. Main reason for doing it that way was because we needed the Paramarine model for sizing and analyzing the design before we reached the stage that we wanted a more detailed 3D model. Paramarine is slightly painful for use for generating hulls (although you can get proficient in just about anything if you really have to!!!). Rhino is also a lot less expensive to buy.

Looking forward to seeing how you go about hull modelling in Rhino

BTW Have you ever tried the Rhino addin ORCA? 

 

 

[gjdale]

Well I’m certainly interested Richard - and for a change, I’m in the same time Zone as you (almost). 😊

[scrubbyj427]

9 hours ago, Richard Braithwaite said:

 

BTW Have you ever tried the Rhino addin ORCA? 

 

 

Richard,

ive been using orca for years! It’s a wonderful plug in for Rhino and it’s capable of so much more than us modelers need. Hulls can be built and used so quickly, especially if you are taking off existing plans.

 

I will be following with interest!

Edited November 28, 2021 by scrubbyj427
Spelling

[Richard Dunn]

Yes I have used Orca but to be honest the only feature as a modeller that I really need from it is the updating sections, the rest of it is largely already part of Rhino it's just the tools are all put into the ORCA toolbar to make it easy.
It is a great tool but for that one function  it's too expensive and given this is targeting hobbyists, I doubt they  will buy a plugin that cost more than Rhino itself does.

I used to do Naval Architecture as a career as well building the prototypes to the client brief  and nailing the look/functionality of the vessel prior to Lloyds involvement and even I would not buy it for that amount, its just too high priced for one function( for me that's the case) luckily my employers used to have that covered anyway but yes it's great.
I will be showing a free alternative way of doing it.

[mgdawson]

Count me in 🙂

[henrythestaffy]

Thanks Richard i would certainly be interested. 

[Egilman]

Well here I am brother...

I'm one of those that requested the help learning Rhino and accepted Richards gracious offer... I've also been spending time getting myself familiar with the basic Rhino interface in preparation....

It's not often you get the chance to learn from an expert so please keep to Rhino... any other software can easily be taken up in a different thread.....

 

It's probably best to keep images to a minimum and pointed directly at questions you may have if needed, as Richard has already mentioned this thread is to ask questions and get help.... Please respect that request...

 

It's your thread Richard, take it away... 

 

And thank you....

Edited December 1, 2021 by Egilman

[Richard Dunn]

Thanks Egilman

So I will go into a bit more about what going to be covered, not all on the same model and indeed not even on full models but I might pull up some ones already done to demonstrate.
I will however be going over the creation of a very well known hull that has about as many undesirable aspects that you can hope for.

No as built plans,
No printed as designed lines.

Tapering planking thickness from garboard to sheer

That being the Cutty Sark, it is a very very simple hull to model and has these unknowns to it that we can now solve due to drawings from the past and data collected from the restoration along with about 1300 photos , some I took while over on it and clearly illustrate the unknown aspects.
So it will be a case of  examining the midship section against the 5-6 that exist and verifying the correct one against photos of the frames and the scan and then using the correct lines to  surface the hull and again fitting that faired against the scan.

A lot of lines you see that look correct are not, as no doubt lots of people know already, and its not until you setup frames and start to bevel or plank you realise this and have to add/remove material from them and still get a lumpy hull, this will remove all of this and give you perfect lines and results every time, and the ability to develop frames anywhere you want at any thickness of material and be able to cut them  as accurately as your  woodwork skills allow.

I have done this all before for work so it should be straight forward this time.

The other aspects will be things like

 

Chine hull creation with no  joins so it can be edited as one surface,

How to create a lines plan when you have no body plan.

Planking layout, carvel and clinker

Reading Shell Expansions and how to reconstruct in 3d space

Developable and non developable surfaces and how to get true shape for panels

How to section models with dynamic sections that update as you edit the hull

fairing curves and surfaces

Working with images in 3d space
How to get heights and measurements of fittings and structure from photos accurately.

How to get CAD onto your wood accurately and easily

But if you have anything you want covered, even if you don't have cad skills I will see if I can answer it.
 

 

Although you don't need 3d skills to watch this it will make more sense if you do but you will absolutely want to know how to read plans and lines properly, terms like rise of floor, deadrise, tumblehome, perpendiculars, strakes etc will not be covered and assumed a modeller will know this stuff already.

I will probably end up doing this at night or early morning so will be half asleep. hence why I have to do this at Xmas so I don't compromise my day job by being too tired.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Richard Dunn

[PeteB]

Hi Richard - I will be following along - thanks for stepping up to the plate, been looking for a tutorial from someone that knows what they are doing  - Cheers Pete

[Richard Dunn]

OK now as you know times are going to be the hard part as we have Australia America and UK to consider and it seems the best time for all to meet is Australian time 6.00am this will be 8.00 pm in London and 3pm in Washington DC i reckon 4 hours is about the time and want to do it as soon as i knock off work so thinking the 23rd Dec

Let me know how that works people.

I start work at 6.00 am anyway so not a huge stretch

[gjdale]

I assume you are talking 6:00am Brisbane time Richard, so 7:00 am for the rest of the east coast….

 

Works for me. 😊

[Egilman]

And it would be 12:00 noon Seattle time.... I will work it out as best I can... I've also set it to record to my local computer so at least I won't miss it if I have to step away...

 

If you want to record it Richard, I will host it for you on drop box available for download to any late comers... (just in case I don't get it all) Sure wouldn't want to lose this opportunity...

Edited December 7, 2021 by Egilman

[Richard Dunn]

Yes Brisbane time 

[PeteB]

Hi Richard - Really looking forward to this so I'm off now to bone up on Zoom. Cheers Pete

[YankeeClipper]

Richard,

 

Thank you very much for your generous offer of doing the workshop!

 

Your experience in hull modeling (and Rhino 3D) will be of great interest to many modelers. While we will always love the traditional techniques, digital modeling and fabrication (laser cutting, CNC, 3D printing) have great potential to enhance our hobby by complementing our conventional methods.

 

I will not be able to attend the live workshop if it is given December 23rd so I greatly hope there is a way to record it. A recording would be so valuable as it allows students to proceed at their own pace.

 

Thank you again for sharing your experience with the community! 🙂

 

Steve

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I forgot to follow this thread! I'll be attending too. I haven't got very far with learning Rhino yet, probably just need to spend more focussed time than 30 minutes here and there, but I'm very keen to see how to get smooth curves etc, especially on the cutty sark.

[PilotNL]

Hi all, I would also like to join the zoom meeting, 

The time (23rd, 21:00 Amsterdam) is great!

 

Cheers!

Rico

 

[LeoM]

Hello Richard,

 

I am very much looking forward to follow your workshop, especially as you will cover Cutty Sark as this is my current build. As I am mainly a Linux user, I wonder if you know any equivalent to Rhino in Linux and or open source. Worse come to worse, I can always use my wife's laptop as she is a Windows user. 😉

[Greg G]

Looking forward to this I have Rhino  V4 and fusion 360 and need all the help I can get .

 

[Richard Dunn]

less than week to go, any requests?

[fnkershner]

I just found this Thread. I live in Seattle and I am retired. I am very interested. I don't know Rino. but I have lots of experience in Fusion 360, 3D printing, And recently started learning CNC. I have access to a CNC with a 4 foot X 4 foot table. It is my desire to create a wooden model from scratch using the CNC. I would very much like to join this group. Just tell me where and when.

[Egilman]

17 hours ago, fnkershner said:

I would very much like to join this group. Just tell me where and when.

It will be a zoom meeting online, 12:00pm Pacific time (noon) the 23 of December... You will need to download and install zoom and Richard will give us the log in details...

[Egilman]

18 hours ago, Richard Dunn said:

less than week to go, any requests?

I don't believe My friend that too many even know what to ask...... 

 

I only hope that some others have decided to record it to their HD's as well as I... 

[Richard Dunn]

When I ask for  requests, I mean has has anyone got any problems they want covered that have hindered them in their ship modelling journey as I can probably show how to overcome it.
I will be recording it at my end anyway as well.

19 hours ago, fnkershner said:

I just found this Thread. I live in Seattle and I am retired. I am very interested. I don't know Rino. but I have lots of experience in Fusion 360, 3D printing, And recently started learning CNC. I have access to a CNC with a 4 foot X 4 foot table. It is my desire to create a wooden model from scratch using the CNC. I would very much like to join this group. Just tell me where and when.

@fnkershner
Do you mean like my one in here

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I think you’re probably going to cover this, Richard, but the main thing for me would be fairing the hull, especially when there are a lot of stations. But in any case I’m interested in seeing how a pro goes about the development of a hull, from the methodology/workflow perspective, what you do that I don’t even know about, that makes it work. The next bit may be a bit arcane, and possibly in the ‘not essential’ box, but how you develop the lateral lofting rails (splines) in the sheer view, when you (typically) have the section profiles and a sheer view. In most of the drawings I’ve seen these are present, but I’m thinking these must be mathematically derived rather than arbitrary. I’ve forgotten most of my old pattern development skills now, but logic tells me the position of the lines on the section profiles is a product of sections relative to each other. As tracing plans alone leads to cumulative error (hence the fairing question), it would be handy to understand how to derive true lines if possible. The same applies to all lines on the plans actually, if there are tried and trusted ‘trade’ methods to resolve tracings of drawing lines (or photos) which would be a foot thick in real life, into their true dimensions. I hope that makes sense. Which reminds me, need to check the CS library this weekend.

[PilotNL]

If requests are allowed, I seem to struggle with the complex shape where the sternpost meets a flat transom under a negative curved hull. 
 

also the transition from the positive curved hull in the body, to the negative curve at the stern. 
 

Looking forward to the meeting!

Rico.

[Richard Dunn]

Ok I will see what I can do

LINK FOR WORKSHOP

 

Topic: Ship Hull Form Modelling
Time: Dec 23, 2021 06:00 AM Brisbane

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/91567240651?pwd=T01tSUxhTk93c3ZwaVdtVGlLRGxuZz09

Meeting ID: 915 6724 0651
Passcode: 294366
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Edited December 19, 2021 by Richard Dunn

[Richard Dunn]

Just click the link, you may have to install the app, I have disabled cameras but am recording.

[Richard Dunn]

15 hours ago, PilotNL said:

If requests are allowed, I seem to struggle with the complex shape where the sternpost meets a flat transom under a negative curved hull. 
 

also the transition from the positive curved hull in the body, to the negative curve at the stern. 
 

Looking forward to the meeting!

Rico.

Do you mean like this sort of situation? where the sternpost becomes the counter, or in steel shipbuilding terms where the Oxter plate is.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Richard Dunn