Rolls-Royce 1920 Pattern Armoured Car by King Derelict - Roden - 1/72

[Landlubber Mike]

22 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Oh brother, you know you want to.... {chuckle}

I kinda do as the diorama possibilities seem much more extensive than what is typically done with ships, planes, and cars which is what I currently build.  But have too many future projects scattered in piles throughout the house and not enough time with 3 young kids in the house.  I’ll just have to retire early and live to 100 🤓

 

[king derelict]

22 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Looking Splendid Alan.

 

OC.

Thank you OC. Getting to the interesting part, details and weathering

Alan

[king derelict]

13 hours ago, Rik Thistle said:

Alan,

 

If the historical interludes are boring please let me know and I will desist. I find this area hugely interesting and can get a bit out of hand.

 

Personally, I find the historical pictures and background stories very interesting indeed. But I can't speak for everyone.

 

Richard

Thank you Richard. I will continue to add notes and photos of what I know about the operations around Kufra and the associated convoys

Alan

[king derelict]

12 hours ago, Egilman said:

Alan, without the history, what's the point? Although we can sometimes bury ourselves into research, and forget the model, understanding what is being represented is key to representing the model...

 

Keep it going brother... Yep there are a lot more WWII references to the SDF than prewar... especially imagery...

 

Looking great to me....

Egilman; I agree and this is a somewhat obscure bit of history and within it are ties to the pre war desert explorations and the search for Zerzura, the Long Range Desert Group, Operation Salaam (the mission to place German spies in Cairo) and evidence of ancient history found in the many cave shelters.. I find it all fascinating stuff

Alan

[king derelict]

9 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Cool subject Alan, nice start!  Looking forward to seeing this come together.  Just don't make it too nice or I'll start adding armored vehicles to the stash 🙄

Thank you very much Mike, I have been having the same problem with aircraft models. So many interesting subjects out there but I have a growing pile of ships and now armour too.  There is a growing problem with storing the unbuilt kits and a bigger problem with real estate for the finished ones. 

Alan

[king derelict]

7 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Nice work and an interesting subject.  I too am enjoying your pictures.  This is a region that I suspect few of us have ever seen.

 

Roger

Thank you very much Roger. I realise I have done a poor job of relating exactly where the focus of this back story is located. It is the meeting point of Egypt to the North, Sudan to the South and Libya to the West. Its deep desert several days drive from any oasis in any direction and with very few sources of water. A massif called the Gilf Kebir lies just withing Egypt and a mountain called Jebel Uweinat lies just inside Sudan. The Kufra convoys travelled to the west of the Gilf. This is a long way south of the main drama of the desert war which was mainly fought close to the Mediterranean coast so there are no wrecked tanks or battle wreckage down there. The route of the convoys is marked by discarded petrol cans and food containers along with a few trucks but they tried to reuse anything they could so a lot of damaged vehicles were hauled back to Wadi Halfa on the empty returning trucks. Those left were gradually completely stripped 

Alan

[king derelict]

5 hours ago, mtaylor said:

It's all about context.  Without it, it's just a model.   With it... it comes to life and tells a story.  Those stories are often forgotten sadly.

Thanks Mark,

I agree with you. This is one of the forgotten corners of the desert war.

Alan

[king derelict]

5 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

I kinda do as the diorama possibilities seem much more extensive than what is typically done with ships, planes, and cars which is what I currently build.  But have too many future projects scattered in piles throughout the house and not enough time with 3 young kids in the house.  I’ll just have to retire early and live to 100 🤓

 

Mike

I think the diorama potential with armoured vehicles is great. I have a couple of WW1 scenes that I want to attempt. My problem is that dioramas take up more space than the model placed in a case but I really like the challenges of making them along with the diverse techniques that are possible.

Alan

[lmagna]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:34 PM, king derelict said:

If the historical interludes are boring please let me know and I will desist. I find this area hugely interesting and can get a bit out of hand.

Without one there is little or no reason for the other. And you may as well build a steampunk war machine. Besides you have chosen a subject that is little known. You are not building another Bismarck, Constitution, or Missouri where the details have been picked over like a slightly used Thanksgiving turkey. I think that my looking at the responses that all are enjoying both aspects of this build.

 

I for one hope you keep both the build and the information coming. Next you could possibly build the (in)famous Rolls Royce 'Miss Agnes'! 

[Canute]

I, too, like to see the historical tie-ins. While considered "obscure" by the model making community, there were many of these little gems manufactured for various purposes. I like these one off- models. Vive la differnce.

[Landlubber Mike]

Personally for me, researching and learning about the model subject is almost more interesting than the actual build.  

[popeye the sailor]

but that's the beauty of it.......there are many aspects{of any war} that are looked over,  overshadowed by the bigger picture.  to think.......just one of these minor altercations may have been the true cause for the turn out of the entire war!  to shed some light on these lesser known actions {or subjects} is refreshing........it's new.......and perhaps new insight on the war >subject< you wish to model.  I get more enjoyment going off on these tangents,  than I do buying a run of the mill kit.

 

you mentioned the tires being different sizes?  notice that they are on the front.....steering.  larger tires rotate at a slower rate that smaller diameter tires,  so it would greatly improve steering over sandy terrain.  in one of the pictures,  the tread looks to be ribbed.  tires on early farm tractors were made that way to better navigate the furrows cut by the plows.   did you figure out the problem with the rear tires and the running boards?  just trim the boards away to clear the tires........it won't look bad and you have the freedom to do it {it will still look right}.

 

super job....really like what you've done so far  

[king derelict]

19 hours ago, lmagna said:

Without one there is little or no reason for the other. And you may as well build a steampunk war machine. Besides you have chosen a subject that is little known. You are not building another Bismarck, Constitution, or Missouri where the details have been picked over like a slightly used Thanksgiving turkey. I think that my looking at the responses that all are enjoying both aspects of this build.

 

I for one hope you keep both the build and the information coming. Next you could possibly build the (in)famous Rolls Royce 'Miss Agnes'! 

Thank you Lou.

I enjoy delving into the more obscure parts of history rather than reiterating a summary of a well-trodden route. Hopefully this won't turn out to be a turkey 😄

Thank you also for introducing me to Travis McGee

Alan

Edited December 15, 2021 by king derelict
wrong poster quoted

[king derelict]

10 hours ago, Canute said:

I, too, like to see the historical tie-ins. While considered "obscure" by the model making community, there were many of these little gems manufactured for various purposes. I like these one off- models. Vive la differnce.

Thanks Ken

Hopefully I will stay interesting

Alan

[king derelict]

9 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Personally for me, researching and learning about the model subject is almost more interesting than the actual build.  

It adds an extra dimension and is thought provoking

Alan

[king derelict]

4 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

but that's the beauty of it.......there are many aspects{of any war} that are looked over,  overshadowed by the bigger picture.  to think.......just one of these minor altercations may have been the true cause for the turn out of the entire war!  to shed some light on these lesser known actions {or subjects} is refreshing........it's new.......and perhaps new insight on the war >subject< you wish to model.  I get more enjoyment going off on these tangents,  than I do buying a run of the mill kit.

 

you mentioned the tires being different sizes?  notice that they are on the front.....steering.  larger tires rotate at a slower rate that smaller diameter tires,  so it would greatly improve steering over sandy terrain.  in one of the pictures,  the tread looks to be ribbed.  tires on early farm tractors were made that way to better navigate the furrows cut by the plows.   did you figure out the problem with the rear tires and the running boards?  just trim the boards away to clear the tires........it won't look bad and you have the freedom to do it {it will still look right}.

 

super job....really like what you've done so far  

Thank you very much Popeye. Its a fun build so far

I thought I had the running boards sorted out by pushing them further forward to match the photos of the real thing. Unfortunately they are still too long and had to be clipped a little.

I think the rear wheels are going to need to be mounted on the end of the hubs rather than the rim sitting around the hub which is the way the front wheels will mount. I think I have some plastic tube that I can use inside the rim to make a better glued joint.

Alan

[king derelict]

A little more progress today. I added another layer of the Krystal Klear to the headlights and while that was drying I thought about the load for the rear deck. I think a line of four petrol cans and a tarped pile of gear.

The wartime British petrol can for aircraft and vehicles was the square "flimsy"

These were considered disposable and were also capable of leaking a significant part of the contents. On rough desert crossings such as the Khufra convoys cans were damaged and would lose half their contents. They were packed for transit in wooden crates with cardboard dividers.

The discarded containers were used as route markers for the convoys and there are stacked cans filled with sand acting as pillars. They were also used as markers for the desert air strips. The arrow points to the landing strip of "8 Bells" which is just south of the Gilf Kebir

The airstrip is identified with more cans although its difficult to read from ground level

With the British army running on tea several of the cans can be found that were used as desert stoves. A side of the can was cut out and the can was filled with sand and petrol poured in and lit. If a kettle wasn't available a second can was cut in half and used to hold teh water

These cans were found well away from the convoy route so are probably from a Long Range Desert Group brew up.

I have read that the flimsies were painted green in Europe and Sand in the desert but all the ones I have seen have no sign of ever being painted. They just have the typical patina of desert rust on bare metal as seen above

This photo of a soldier in the desert refuelling a Crusader tank shows a bare metal can too. I will use a dull metal paint for them

The flimsies were four gallon containers 15 inches high and 9 x 9. That scales out at about 5 x3 x 3 mm. I planned to make a strip of four cans from two pieces of plastic strip glued together to give me the appropriate dimensions. I made a cardboard base to carry teh load thinking it would be easier to build and paint it up off the model and drop it in when completed. The load is a foam offcut glued to teh base and a square of toilet paper acts as a tarp.

The toilet paper was glued down with diluted white glue and the plastic strip was scored and filed to represent the individual cans,

The strip of cans is not as neat as I hoped but may look better when tidied up and painted. The detail of the top of the cans is too small to attempt I think. I have ordered some 1/8 square plastic rod to make individual cans if this doesn't work out. The load will be painted when the glue mix dries and rope added.

I checked the forward vertical piece of the rear wheel arch and I didn't like the way it leans back and it was also too close to the rear wheel so i clipped 2 mm off the running board and I think it looks better.

Thanks for looking in

Alan

[lmagna]

7 hours ago, king derelict said:

Thank you also for introducing me to Travis McGee

My hero as a teen. I wanted to be just like him. I was also a big fan of Mike Hammer by Mickey Spillane and of course Philip Marlowe by Raymond Chandler, but I always came back to Travis McGee when the new books came out.

 

Miss Agnes aside, I really like how this one is bending to your will. I think it will be a winner.

Edited December 16, 2021 by lmagna

[king derelict]

15 hours ago, lmagna said:

My hero as a teen. I wanted to be just like him. I was also a big fan of Mike Hammer by Mickey Spillane and of course Philip Marlowe by Raymond Chandler, but I always came back to Travis McGee when the new books came out.

 

Miss Agnes aside, I really like how this one is bending to your will. I think it will be a winner.

Thank you Lou. I have all the Philip Marlowe books and they have been read many times. I always liked "down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. He is the hero" 

Alan

[king derelict]

Today seems to have seen a bit of progress - the part of teh build where stuff is coming together instead of waiting for stuff to dry. The lights were added to the car. I am quite pleased with the result of painting the inside of the light with a bright metal paint and then filling them with the Kristal Klear fluid.

The whole car was then sprayed with a gloss coat and when dry I added a thin black wash of oil paint to bring up the panel lines. Getting the dilution right is still a bit hit and miss but I think its getting better. I bought a cheap set of oils to try this and the black seems to be quite gritty and reluctant to dissolve smoothly so I will get a Rowney or Windsor tube now that I like the technique. I used a brown wash on the panel lines of the wooden parts and I like the result although its not very obvious

The radiator doors were added. The kit has them closed but I would like them open so I thinned the edges and I will make a wire prop for the top edge. I painted the front of the hull matt black and hopefully the view past the doors will not allow much to be seen.

The tyres and wheels were washed and the sand ladders were cleaned up. I put a layer of paint onto the tarp over the load and primed the flimsy row

With a bit of shading on it the Scarff ring looks a lot better and I doubt if I could make a better one in wire

 

I cut off the pin in the centre of the rear hubs (with the wheels sitting on teh edge of the rim it serves no purpose and drilled a hole into the hub. I plan to glue a metal pin into the wheel centre hole which will be long enough to fit into the hub and centre the wheel

 

 

Thanks for looking in

Alan

[lmagna]

Getting hard to believe that these were ever made by RR. But somehow even with all the armor and boxes, along with the truck bed morphed to the back it still somehow still has some RR grace. Maybe this IS really where Miss Agnes came from!

[Old Collingwood]

Thats coming along really well Alan   - love the touch with the headlamps  - I did similar on my   Chally  2 build  I used a bit of that acrylic clear water I have,    you really are mamking a  really interesting looking  vehicle here.

 

OC.

[king derelict]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:23 PM, lmagna said:

Getting hard to believe that these were ever made by RR. But somehow even with all the armor and boxes, along with the truck bed morphed to the back it still somehow still has some RR grace. Maybe this IS really where Miss Agnes came from!

As soon as i put the headlights on I thought "There is a Rolls-Royce in there" 

Alan

[king derelict]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:25 PM, Old Collingwood said:

Thats coming along really well Alan   - love the touch with the headlamps  - I did similar on my   Chally  2 build  I used a bit of that acrylic clear water I have,    you really are mamking a  really interesting looking  vehicle here.

 

OC.

Thank you very much OC. It was a shame to dirty up the headlights to make them dusty.

Alan

[king derelict]

Suddenly it feels like this build in nearly over. For weathering and wear and tear I feel that rust is unlikely in a desert setting in the initial years. It takes a long time to develop the rust patina in that dry atmosphere. The more likely damage comes from scraping through the scrubby acacia bushes that are found in some areas around Khufra. 

Those spines will penetrate a sandal sole with ease. But amazingly the camels will crew them off the tree along with the leaves

So I think bare metal and dust is the appropriate finish

 

I used the Vallejo metal paint. It is "Aluminium" but I'm not sure its distinguishable from steel in the amounts I am using. Its the first time I have used this paint and I like it a lot; good coverage but it is thin enough to spread a bit farther than intended unless carefully watched

I painted some onto the wheel nuts and rims as frequent use of tyre irons to fix punctures would take the paint off. And punctures would be frequent (see above acacia trees)

I added bare metal edges to the mudguards, panel rivets and forgot to take photos. I used the Vallejo paint for the edges of the spades and gun metal paint for the middle part. I'm not sure it really made a difference.

A dilute coat of Tamiya Buff was air brushed onto the lower part of the vehicle to add dust. I'm fairly happy with the result but a lot of tiny work with the metal paint has been lost; the headlights I was very proud of just look dirty now.

LInkages were added to the radiator doors, guns were installed and the spare wheels fitted

 

I can't make up my mind whether I like the tarped load in the load bed. It looks better now that its dusty but ........... Its only dry fitted so I can pull it out.

The kit instructions would have you stow the sand ladders slung under the running boards. To me that seems a bad place to put them. If you bog down in the soft stuff and the rear wheels dig in the car ends up settling down - on the sand ladders - meaning they then have to be dug out from under the car; no easy task

I decided to stow them on top of the running boards and added some rope ties to hold them in place.

So a bit of tidying up, add some gloss back to the weapons, maybe some bare metal back in a few areas. Then time to put the wheels on.

Thank you for looking in and all the nice comments and interest.

Alan

 

[mtaylor]

Well thought out about the dust instead of rust.   Looks like a well used desert vehicle.   As for the tarp, it looks green in the photos you posted.   Would have been green, olive, or something other than tan?  

[Egilman]

The sand ladders would be exactly where you put them, tied to the tops of the running boards.

The tarp would be mostly bleached out canvas.... (almost white) but bleached out military green would also be appropriate...

 

Excellent work!

[king derelict]

12 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Well thought out about the dust instead of rust.   Looks like a well used desert vehicle.   As for the tarp, it looks green in the photos you posted.   Would have been green, olive, or something other than tan?  

Thanks Mark

This is what I had in mind when I was working up the tarp. This one was used by the Germans but it was on a captured Ford truck so who knows who it originated from. The desert war saw a lot of "borrowing" by both sides.

Of course the tarp is seventy years old but it was in the shade of a rock outcrop so probably not too heavily bleached out.

Alan

[king derelict]

12 hours ago, Egilman said:

The sand ladders would be exactly where you put them, tied to the tops of the running boards.

The tarp would be mostly bleached out canvas.... (almost white) but bleached out military green would also be appropriate...

 

Excellent work!

Thank you Egilman for the kind comment and supporting information.

Alan

[king derelict]

I'm experimenting with some weathering ideas which I'll show tomorrow but today I wanted to share the thread that brings a lot of the less known desert operations together. The tale of a lost city and the explorations to find it.

Rumours of a lost city in the desert south of the oases were documented by European travellers in the 17th century. Several nomads looking for lost camels talked of ruins and treasure. There was even a gold and ruby ring in the possession of King Idris of Egypt that supposedly was stolen from the lost city and had been examined by experts who put the workmanship as medieval European style. No trace of the ring has been noted in recent times.

In its most enduring form the legend talks of a city with white walls deep in the desert. A pillar by the locked gates has a sculpture of a white bird which holds the key to the gates in its beak. The city was called Zerzura

In the early 1930s a group of mostly British officers started exploring the desert using Ford Model A trucks. The leader of the group was Ralph Bagnold (who is a story in his own right - if you ever want to learn how to fill a life full). In 1930 the Zerzura Club was founded to attempt to find the lost city and the cars were supplemented by Robert Clayton in his Gypsy Moth aircraft. From the air three oasis were seen in the shadow of the mountain on the modern borders of Libya, Sudan and Egypt. These became the focus of the subsequent explorations. During these expeditions they learnt the techniques of desert driving and navigation, learnt to lower tyre pressure on soft sand and to use sand ladders. Bagnold developed an accurate sun compass and eventually all three oases were explored without finding any trace of the lost city. Bagnold at least never believed there was a city down there but it gave purpose to the expeditions into the desert.

The exception to the British members of the Zerzura club was a Hungarian called Laslo Almasy and it was Laso who found the Cave of the Swimmers in Wadi Sura in the vicinity of the oases. He was of course the basis for the English Patient.

The swimmers are still there along with a host of other human, animal and mystical creatures.

 

That is if they are swimmers. There are many interpretations of the meaning of the figures; are they really swimming or drifting through the afterlife.

When Italy entered World War Two in 1940 and the fighting moved to North Africa Bagnold created and led the Long Range Desert Group. He commanded many of his previous expedition team mates in their reconnaissance and raiding sorties using their experience and skills to travel deep in the desert.

Laslo Almasy joined the German Luftwaffe and led a brilliant desert sortie from Libya right across Egypt to the Nile Valley, couriering two German spies travelling to Cairo. The traces of his expedition, like those of the LRDG are still to be found in the desert. The tarp in the previous post is from the Almasy raid; Operation Salaam.

No sign of Zerzura has ever been found and it is thought that the oases have never been occupied by anyone other than nomadic pastoralists.

But high on the mountain above the three oases we found a cave with this picture.

Doesn't that look like a ruler with a crown and a subject kneeling in obeisance?

 

I promise to be back with the Rolls tomorrow

 

Alan