Niagara by lb0190 - Model Shipways - 1/64

[Sjors]

Great job on the 50 % of the planking !

 

That looks just great !

I'll send you my Aggy and you can do the same thing for me       

 

[realworkingsailor]

Fantastic job on the planking so far, you're doing n excellent job.

 

As for Sjors... he's perfectly capable of planking his own barn door..

 

Andy

[popeye the sailor]

sometimes,  depending on the scale,  you can adjust the plank width a little.   one good thing in using narrower planking,  is that it conforms to the hull curvature much better.   on painted hulls,  there's no worries at all.

[lb0190]

Popeye,

 

You are certainly right about narrow planks being easier to install. The first thing I noticed when mounting a wider plank last night and this morning is that they do not conform to the hull curvature as easy as the more narrow planks. I have to soak them a little longer to help negate that change.

[Rich_engr]

Larry- unfortunately I'm still waiting for my revised start date...  per the original offer, my first day would have been TODAY...  but everyone's anxious- me, gf, family, neighbors, and future employers (as well as MSW shipmates)...  just waiting for the gov to do its thing (super slow bc of the shutdown and major backlog)...

 

Hrm, I like the idea of checking to see if the hobby shop has the correct size of wood for the bowsprit- I think I may have to stock up too.  (Yeah, don't know what it is about the bowsprit, whether it's the shape, dimensions, small details, or what, but that thing is scary for some weird reason!)  Perhaps it's something I can whittle on in my room in the evenings once I actually start work.

 

And don't worry about DNA being a part of the build- if a CSI ever needs proof, all they have to do is take a cotton swab to any ship build.  (Heck, the plastic ones from my childhood still have full fingerprints in the glue!!!)

 

Mmm- Scotch and a cigar... that sounds good, but for now I'll settle for a Miller Lite~~   

 

Those planking lines are really looking great- you'll probably finish before Christmas.  

[popeye the sailor]

I don't think you have much to worry about........with the planking you have left to do.   just limit how many times you glue your fingers to the planks,  and you'll be OK 

[mainstay]

Today, I completed the starboard side belt B planking. I believe I'm officially 50% complete on planking the hull based on the ship having four belts. 

 

Great milestone. Congratulations!  It really does take a long time, doesn't it?  At least the planks get wider as you go down.  I had the hardest time with the reverse curve at the stern.

 

And it's looking really nice.  Your careful planning up front and your skill with the plank bender are both showing in the pictures.

 

Joe

[lb0190]

Thank you Joe & Popeye.. Here is where I'm currently at:

Hi Everyone,

I'm in need of your advice, ideas thoughts – whatever you feel like providing in regard to my current issue (which of course may only be in my head).
Photos 1,2 & 3 show where I'm at on the starboard side hull planking. The last row (lowest plank) is plank 5 of 8 for belt C which should include 2 stealers, not yet instlled. Belt D per the plans has 5 rows (includes garboard) which shows 2 more stealers on the drawing.
Once I completed row 5 for belt C I see what may be a problem. If you look at the bow area photo, the remaining open space is closing rapidly. The stern photo still shows plenty of space.
Photo 4 shows my garboard plank laying loosely in place at the bow, untrimmed in length and width.
To my amateur eyes it looks like I getting into trouble that the stealers as defined on the drawing will not resolve (photo 5 & 6).
Before I install another plank I would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions or ideas you may have.

My initial thoughts are to;

• install the garboard plank before there is not enough room to do so
• then build up the stern planing area with the stealers
• then start installing planks moving in the forward direction, recognizing I may be able to resolve any issue forward with additional stealers.

To be blunt, I do not know if that plan makes any sense. I'm not against ripping any planks off or cutting in some stealers now, I'm just not sure what is the best next step
BTW, I have not started belt C on the port side thinking it has enough planks in place to prevent twisting, as I finish the starboard side first – make sense???


Edit: almost forgot, Yes I'm back posting and plan on complying with the request to limit social comments on the build log. I apologize if my posts caused you or anyone else (including Ghuck and his staff)any issues.

Edited November 23, 2013 by lb0190

[Sjors]

Hi Larry,

 

Welcome back and I'm happy that you are posting again.

I'm sorry that I can not help you with your issue.

But planking looks great !

 

[aliluke]

Hi Larry

I agree get that garboard plank in now. I usually install that plank and several rows above it much earlier than you have. Perhaps also shorten it at the bow so that it is parallel to the keel and doesn't rise up the stem at all. That will increase the space for subsequent planks. Definitely you'll need stealers, maybe more than are shown on your plans, and if you make them and the adjoining planks full width the gap at the stern should close quite quickly. The only other choice - which is harder - is to take off a few rows of planks at the bow and taper them further back along the hull to increase the rise of the planks at the stem. From the photos it appears the lowest rows of your planks are parallel to the keel or even turning down slightly when they should still be rising.

 

Although the above may not be heartening, I hope it helps.

 

Cheers

Alistair

[kenr]

Hi Larry

I too am glad you are back.

Alistairs detailed reply will help a lot

At the end of the day gaps will be filled and the hull will be painted. 

So don't stress about it

 

Regards

Ken

[lb0190]

Thanks Alistair & Ken. I'll get started on the garboard next. Now that you mention it, I do recall reading the garboard shouldnot rise up the stem.

[augie]

Yup - 110% with Alistair.  Get in the garboard and shorten it back at the front end to give other planks more room.

[lb0190]

Thanks Augie, that's the path I'll take!

[popeye the sailor]

yup...lessening the bow is a good idea.....but I think you might want to try using joggers at the bow,  instead of stealers.  the idea is to keep as straight a line as you can.   following two planks from the mid ship, to about the third rib from the bow......taper them and fit in a single plank, run to the bow stem.   essentially,  it merges these two planks together,  into one.   after a couple of those,  that curve at the bow should almost be gone.......the rest can be eliminated with tapering other planks.

 

stealers are used when the planking want to divide from each other

 

joggers are used when the planks want to merge with each other

 

this is how I've come to understand how these two work.......hope it helps out.   the stern looks fine.......you'll be able to fit the garboards with no trouble at all.   looking good my friend........glad to see an update on this fine build.

[lb0190]

Thanks Popeye. The term joggers is new to me but now that you bring it up I recall seeing a diagram on this approach. This should help me for me issue at the bow.

 

Thanks everyone. Between remaking the garboard and using stealers and joggers I should be able to resolve the issue. This is going to take some time

[Chuck]

It is looking good.   Just as the others mentioned you should shorten the length of the garboard quite a bit.   Otherwise the remaining planks will need to be tapered too much along the stem.   I show in red the approximate amount.  I would suggest after the garboard plank is in place that you divide up the remaining space at each bulkhead so you can see just how the remaining planks will run and how much they need to taper.  Use a tick strip at the widest point of the opening midship to determine how many planks you will need.  Once you know how many planks will fit at that widest point you can mark the width of that number of planks at every bulkhead in the opening.   This will show you exactly how the planks will run and how much they need to be tapered.

 

Im guessing you will probably need six more plank strakes to complete that side of the hull once the garboard is in position.

 

Chuck

 

[Sjors]

I try to understand what everyone is saying about a garboard plank.

I understand that it is the plank that goes to the keel.

But how do you measure that and when do you place him ?

 

[lb0190]

Hi Chuck,

Thank you! Your input helps a great deal. For some reason, the garboard is a more signifcant challenge for me, but the marked photo really helps. Augie sent me a pdf that shows how you planked the Syren - so much help form so many people, it's what makes MSW so special.

 

I'll remake the garboard and get it in place then follow your suggestion on how to install the remaining planks. Due to everyone's help, the remaining hull planking does not sound as daunting.

 

Hi Sjors,

As I mentioned above, the garboard is a real challenge for me and from where I'm at now I believe installation would have been easier if I installed it much earlier, simply due having more room to work with at the bow. For me, the shape will probably be trial and error until it looks right.

[mainstay]

Hi Larry,

 

I agree with Alstair about adding the garboard plank now and with Chuck about making it narrower.  The main issue is how thin do the individual planks become by the time they reach the bow.  You may still have to do some stealers (or joggers) at the stearn.

 

Joe

[popeye the sailor]

where the bow stem starts from the keel,  is a good rule of thumb.  it's not designed to take up any space at the stem.   the idea here is to create the straight line and work your way to the chine.   I usually work my way down the bulwarks to the chine {or the turn},  and then lay the garboard,  and work form there to meet where I left off.  planks can be fashioned quite easily to close it.

 

 

how you use stealers and Joggers,  Joe,  depends how the planks want to lay.  test fitting will be the guide

Edited November 25, 2013 by popeye the sailor

[lb0190]

Hi Popeye,

 

Thanks for the help and for looking in. We just recently returned from our son's home with one grandchild in tow. I've had just enough time in the shop this evening to finish my first attempt at the garboard plank, starting near the point you and Chuck referenced. I believe I'll make this a single plank and cut in simulated butts later so the step pattern is correct. I feel pretty confident on closing up the hull with the suggestions everyone provided. Chuck's estimate was right on in regard to the number of remaining planks.

[popeye the sailor]

super!!   by keeping the line of new planking as straight as you can.......you'll see what you'll need to change at the bow,  with the other line of planking.    glad to hear it!   Kudos to Chuck!

[mobbsie]

Hi Larry,

 

Pleased to read you are well on the way to sorting your planking out.

 

I wouldn't have been any help to you mate, I hate planking.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[texxn5]

Where you been Mate??? Hope all is well.....

[lb0190]

Hello to all my friends on MSW.

 

I'm alive and well - thank you for the concern. The past month or so has encompassed a little bit of traveling, family visits and friends stopping by, keeping me busy and away from the shop. I sneak in a quick peek at MSW send a few Likes when I can and try to get an hour or so in the shop from time to time but it's been hard to do. I hope over the next few days or so I can pick up progress on my ship and spend more time on line with my friends on MSW.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and good health to all of you.

[Sailor1234567890]

Joggling is the term. You joggle the planks in. Woodenboat forum will have information on that if you're interested in knowing more about it. The reason behind it was to allow the builder to caulk the seams. He needed a certain width of plank to allow his caulking iron to fit. There's no way to insert a 2 inch wide iron into a 1 inch space at the end of the plank so instead of tapering down that far, you joggle the plank to allow the iron to fit. The irons came in different sizes of course but practically speaking, you aren't going to caulk (pronounced "cork" by many) a plank with a pointy awl, you need a chisel shaped calking iron. FYI, a good experienced caulker, supervising newbies could often tell how fast his proteges were progressing and how well they were doing by the speed of their mallet blows and the sound they made. They make a sort of ringing noise. Caulking mallets are always used, no rubber mallets or hammers here.  if it didn't "ring true" he knew his apprentice was botching it up. And now you know where the expression "ring true" comes from.

[riverboat]

Hi Larry, just wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!

Frank

[lb0190]

Hi Frank,

 

Merry Christmas to you and yours and I hope you (all) have a great 2014!!! Of course the same goes the the rest of my friends on MSW!

 

I hope to provide an update in a few days. I targeted end of year to complete the hull planking, but it looks like I'll be doing good to complete the port side. Once the port side is done, I'll post a few photos and show where I had challenges and how they were resolved. I suspect the starboard side will go much quicker

[aliluke]

Have a good one Larry - Christmas and 2014. I look forward to your updates and you getting that pesky planking all shipshape and done.

 

Cheers

Alistair