Shipping Costs

[Mercator]

As I mentioned in another post I purchased a Vanguard kit from California, the next one (same size box) I purchased directly from Vanguard (England), the shipping was roughly equivalent. I live in Idaho, go figure. When possible I use Amazon, free shipping when you are a prime member (so far). 

[BikerMart]

I am curious. When a customer in the USA purchases from, say, Vanguard, does the price of the item include or exclude VAT?

 

[BANYAN]

I think Jim (Byrnes Model Machines) and Chris Watton have hit the nail on the head - in many cases we should not blame the retailer (in our hobby many are smaller operators such as Chris and Chuck).  Rather we should be all putting pressure on the 'greedy' postal services, I take every opportunity when they ask for feedback to give them my 'opinion'  (well they asked for it ).  We have the same problem here in Australia - ever since the Government put AustPost on a 'profit' driven path they are more interested in making money than delivering a quality service.  They have doubled (or more) their delivery times rather than hire more staff; but (and the real kicker) the prices have increased - all so that their executives can be given fancy gifts and bonuses (this in a Government service??).  This is the main cause of many good businesses losing international (and some internal) trade.  I used to recommend several overseas sources for model related products to new modellers, but now it is just not cost effective to buy these items.

 

I have stopped buying many products unless I can get it/them in Australia as the international shipping costs are now ridiculous (its bad enough for internal postage) - sometimes that means I have to do without and find another solution or product.  There are still a very few niche businesses overseas that I will go to (such as Chuck for rope and special blocks), but that is about it.  The over zealous profit driven attitude of the postal services (here and overseas) is going to be the ruin of many good business and hobbyists.  That said, there are also some businesses that take the opportunity to gouge the customer as has been described (WRT to P&H).  These practices are all contributing (along with the general loss of interest in the hobby) in the decline of our fine hobby.  

 

I'll stop my rant now

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

Good post, Pat.  We've seen that here in the States also but not the "bonuses" part.  The current Postmaster General (the big cheese as such) had removed some office's sorting machines, shut down overtime for the workers, and extended the delivery times.  And... the prices went up naturally.  I realize there is an increase in costs due to fuel prices going up in the last 6 months or so, but like everything else, the prices go up and seldom, if ever, come back down.

[rudybob]

4 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Good post, Pat.  We've seen that here in the States also but not the "bonuses" part.  The current Postmaster General (the big cheese as such) had removed some office's sorting machines, shut down overtime for the workers, and extended the delivery times.  And... the prices went up naturally.  I realize there is an increase in costs due to fuel prices going up in the last 6 months or so, but like everything else, the prices go up and seldom, if ever, come back down.

The Postal workers must have their retirement money. A contract was signed. That's the real cost

[davyboy]

On 7/22/2022 at 4:41 PM, BikerMart said:

I am curious. When a customer in the USA purchases from, say, Vanguard, does the price of the item include or exclude VAT?

 

HI B:M,if you live outside the UK there is no VAT charge on your purchase/s from there. I'm not sure about the EU countries however.

 

Dave 

[BikerMart]

Dave; Right. And no import duty if what you buy is less than $800. So it can make sense to purchase from, say, Vanguard Models or Cornwall Model Boats, rather than from a distributor in the US.

[rshousha]

In order to understand what is going on with mail prices around the world, one should study the rules of the Universal Postal Union treaty. This is a treaty that goes back something like 144 years and allows developing countries (including China) to get huge discounts on shipping mail around the world, based on the volume of mail sent and received. As far as I know, once a year, transfers of money take place among countries' postal systems to allow developing countries to send mail to developed countries at prices that are very advantageous to those developing countries. 

 

Here's a link to the Wikipedia page on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Postal_Union#:~:text=The%20Universal%20Postal%20Union%20(UPU,to%20the%20worldwide%20postal%20system.

 

It's interesting reading. 

 

And, as an interesting side note, the previous American administration decided to pull out of this treaty, saying that it had become unfair as developing countries were overwhelming its postal system with packages that were being mailed at a deep discount. 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by rshousha
slightly more info - it's a complicated subject

[Mark m]

I’ve been on both sides of this issue.  
 

As a seller, shipping is very expensive for small sellers, even with the EBay discount rates.

 

As a buyer, I think it’s best to consider the total cost (item price plus S&H).  $20 with free shipping is not as good as $1 with $16 shipping.

 

As an aside, the “developing countries” subsidy can lead to ridiculous situations.  I needed one or two needle threaders, but it was cheaper to buy 50 from China than 1 from the US!

 

[rshousha]

I have now switched to "buying one from the US" no matter the difference in price. Time to help our own economies, one needle at a time!

 

[John Murray]

On 7/22/2022 at 11:29 PM, jimbyr said:

Just did a quote for shipping to South Africa this morning,  a saw and sliding table,  $616.00,  UPS has gone wild.

 

Jim

Model Machines

 

 

I just paid for a Byrnes 4"table saw and saw accessories to be shipped to South Australia. The subtotal was US$1189. Freight to me via UPS (only option) was US$540 equivalent to AU$770.
It's what is is as far as I am concerned, I want it, I gotta pay it. Living in a global economy means I can get great gear from around the world. 
Edit, I have just reread this thread and realised I bought it from you! 🤣

Edited July 31, 2022 by John Murray

[Bob Cleek]

Perhaps now's the time for somebody to set up some kind of internet platform that connect airline travelers and shippers together. I could easily be wrong, but it seems to me that somebody flying on a commercial flight from the US to Australia to easily add a box with a Byrnes Saw and sliding table to their luggage allowance, paying for overweight, if any, and get it there for a lot less than $616! Then again, on a per mile basis, I'm sure shipping the same package across the US would be every bit of $100, so perhaps not. Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything, but I can't help but think the corporate capitalists have seen the "recovery" from the pandemic as "open season" on charging as much as the market will bear to make up for lost time. I heard the fuel companies' profits for the first half of the year were the highest in history.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bob Cleek

[mnl]

DHL often has much better international rates. I’m surprised more people don’t use them. If I had to ship international I would call them first.

Edited July 31, 2022 by mnl

[rshousha]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:41 AM, Bob Cleek said:

Perhaps now's the time for somebody to set up some kind of internet platform that connect airline travelers and shippers together. I could easily be wrong, but it seems to me that somebody flying on a commercial flight from the US to Australia to easily add a box with a Byrnes Saw and sliding table to their luggage allowance, paying for overweight, if any, and get it there for a lot less than $616!

Count me out!

 

"What is in the box, sir?"

"Not sure. It could be a saw"

"Did you pack it?"

"No"

"Do you know who packed it?" 

"No. Perhaps someone in China".

 

"Sir, can you please step this way? We have a few more questions."

[Bob Cleek]

Or it could go like this:

 

"What is in the box, sir?"

A miniature table saw I obtained in the US. Here's my customs declaration form.

"Did you pack it?"

 No, but I unpacked it when it was received from the manufacturer and then repacked it myself.

"Welcome home. Your import duty is..."  

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Bob Cleek

[KeithAug]

Not long ago I shipped a pair of collet chucks (1kg) from the Uk to Australia using the Royal Mail. The shipment went via air mail and cost £19 which I thought was pretty decent, it didn’t take long either. Everything was above board with all the correct customs declarations etc.
It seems to me that some shipping costs are reasonable while others seem exorbitant. If I judge the total cost (price plus shipping) to be unreasonable I just don’t buy.

 

In the instance of the 2 collects I actually bought them in the Uk for another msw member and he paid me for them and for the shipping via PayPal. This may be an option for some of you struggling with unreasonable shipping costs.

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

I think one thing to remember is that these days everything mailed seems to go by air. Air mail prices were always expensive. Back in the days of the transatlantic mail ships, the Queen Mary or Queen Elizabeth could carry hundreds of tons of mail across the Pond in four days time and we were used to waiting several weeks to get surface mail from Europe. Now, we expect the same in a few days. They can do it by air, but it comes at a much higher price.

 

Surface shipping has gone way up in price, as well. A good bit of the inflation we're experiencing is the result of price gouging by the shippers. Before the pandemic, the average rate for shipping from Shanghai to Los Angeles was stable at less than $1,800 per container from 2011 to March 2020. Since the pandemic, the rates to ship that same 40 foot container from Shanghai to Long Beach have gone up almost as high as $12,000 per container, although prices are coming down a bit at present. The pandemic gave rise to a big increase in "e-commerce" mail order business (think Amazon) which overwhelmed the shipping infrastructure. There weren't enough containers in existence to carry it all. Add to that the fact that China "locked down" to prevent Covid spread and their import traffic contracted, so, with much less to ship back from the US West Coast to China, a lot of empty containers piled up here, raising the price of empty containers in China. 

[mtaylor]

Last report I saw said there's still a huge amount of empty containers in west coast ports as well as scattered across the county.  Getting them back to the coast and then to China isn't cheap. Part of the issue is also the number of truckers on the road has decreased so they're only moving when full.  Fuel costs seem to still a factor in truck shipping.