Ratline glue

[Univ of Saigon 68]

I am working on my first model - Scientific (brand) Bluenose - that I received many years ago as a gift and which I never got around to working on until I retired.  I recently watched a video on making ratlines.  The author suggested using Revell Contacta model glue to secure the knots in place (at about 8:30 in the link below).  Does that sound right?  I thought it was for plastic.

 

By the way, this is my first post on this site.  Thanks, Univ of Saigon 68

 

 

[Gregory]

I can't think of a good reason to use glue on ratline knots.  Maybe on the outside shrouds to smooth up the cut ends.

Is the Revell glue shiny when dry?  If not, it could be a good choice. Otherwise shellac or white glue is a good choice.

 

Hats off to the guy in the video tying off those ratlines with gloves on..

[Oldsalt1950]

There are a number of ways to secure the knots on ratlines. Some people use Acrylic Matte medium, some use CA (superglue), some use white wood glue. I prefer Acrylic Matte medium. My suggestion is to experiment with the various glues and see which one gives you the best appearance, as in does it stain the line or discolor it.

 

Jim

[barkeater]

I use thinned wood (white) glue on all of my knots. It is invisible at least to my eye when it dries. As has been said, experiment to see what looks best and works best for your situation.

Richard

[Knocklouder]

Hello and welcome, I am relatively new at modelling. I learned that you should only  put a spot  of glue on the first and last shroud line, it keeps it flexible. Just a drop on the end of the lines you cut off, works for me others have their way,  you will soon have many ways of making them pick the one that you like.  That just my thoughts      Bob  M.

[Jaager]

My first thought was either shellac or bookbinder's white PVA pH7.

But I only consider natural fibers - mainly linen for my rope.  

I would guess that older kits featured cotton for rope material.

 

Is not man-made synthetic polymer line making major inroads as scale rope material now?

This material would lack the pores and gaps needed for PVA to bond.

I know that shellac will play nice with polyurethane but will it hold as a layer on top of a plastic?

What holds on a polymer line?

 

@Univ of Saigon 68If your Bluenose is one of the old Scientific kits, the line is probably cotton, so shellac or PVA would be ideal.

 

Has anyone reanimated the old Scientific brand name and started producing new material?  The old kits were "mostly harmless" as a beginner kit and fun to build.

[Gregory]

37 minutes ago, Jaager said:

Is not man-made synthetic polymer line making major inroads as scale rope material now?

This material would lack the pores and gaps needed for PVA to bond.

Have you ever tried to secure scale polyester rope knots with white PVA ?

The fibers in polyester thread are fine enough to produce fuzz, so the spun up threads result in a very porous material that the thinned white glue penetrates and bonds very well.

 

I have had no issues using white glue to secure polyester rope knots.

[Jaager]

24 minutes ago, Gregory said:

Have you ever tried to secure scale polyester rope knots with white PVA ?

Thanks for presenting the option.

This may be a reference in the future and I thought that a more complete map of this problem would be useful.

 

I was not asking for me,  The only anything synthetic that I allow myself is PVA and two part epoxy. 

I have always considered our project here to be a contest with myself.  My rules being what I imagine was available to the English modelers in the 1670 era.  But hot pot hide glue is just too much additional bother.  No limits on power tools allowed though.  The more tools I have- the better it is.  I have maxed out on anything with a foot print though.

[modeller_masa]

 

After I read posts, I was curious about holding ratlines in the 18th century. When I researched ratlines, I was surprised that the ratline in the video wasn't fixed. (Time: 11:00)  Of course, it is possible to slip. Was it true that ratlines in the 17th century were not tied to shrouds tightly?

[Bob Cleek]

56 minutes ago, modeller_masa said:

When I researched ratlines, I was surprised that the ratline in the video wasn't fixed. (Time: 11:00)  Of course, it is possible to slip. Was it true that ratlines in the 17th century were not tied to shrouds tightly?

The fellow in the video will likely soon discover that it is impossible to tie ratlines to stainless steel cable rigging without applying a serious serving to the cable and securing it with a good soaking of paint, shellac, or tar or the like at the points of the ratlines attachments in order to enlarge the diameter of the shroud sufficiently to provide a good friction grip for the ratline knots. This practice, however, raises the concern  that the serving may produce a "hard spot" on the cable at the point of the serving which may cause localized metal fatigue or create conditions favorable to anaerobic crevice corrosion beneath the serving, either of which can result in a catastrophic failure of the cable. Total failure risks may be overlooked by many amateur riggers, but they certainly realize quickly the impracticality of trying to tie a polyester ratline to a length of quarter inch stainless cable! For this reason, modernly rigged small craft rarely carry ratlines.

 

Seventeenth Century ships" shrouds, being made of fiber, were quite thick, often as thick as a man's arm, and wormed, parceled, served, and tarred well. A much thinner length of ratine cordage tightly fastened would easily hold fast with a lashing at either end and clove hitches in between the lashed ends. 

[Keith_W]

FYI, when I did the ratlines on my HMS Bounty (link in my sig) I used CA glue. At the time I was worried that the acid in the glue might corrode the rope. It is now 14 years since the model was completed and the ratlines still look great. 

Also, I did the rigging on another model using PVA glue because of the above concern. I did not like PVA glue as much because it would not set as quickly as CA and the knots could migrate if I am not careful to leave them undisturbed whilst waiting for it to dry. I am obviously not as skilled as you guys who tie your ratlines without any glue. It is now 8 years since that model was completed, and the rigging still looks great. 

Bottom line: for me it's CA glue or PVA. But I prefer CA because it sets much faster. Just be careful to dab a tiny bit of it with a toothpick, and at the back of the ratline where it won't be conspicuous. 

[Univ of Saigon 68]

Thank all you above for all the tips.  I will experiment with various kinds to see which works best.

 

What got me back to the ship model I let lie for so long was another model I was recently given, and finished.  It's this one -

 

[ScottRC]

I was turned on to using fly tying head cement after watching my father in law use it tying flies.  Its designed for thread and dries flat with one coat, or apply several for more gloss, moisture resistant, and stays pliable.  It injects easily through a syringe or it can be brushed on.  

[popeye2sea]

Interesting!   I'll have to look for that.

 

Regards,

Henry

[ScottRC]

What the head cement is really good for is securing seizing, which is what is practically done when tying a fly. 

[mtaylor]

Univ of Saigon 68..   Welcome to MSW.   I suggest you do a intro in the new member area.   From your screenname, I gather you are a vet.   In my branch we referred to it as the "Univeristy of Science Music and Culture.... Da Nang Campus".

[Univ of Saigon 68]

55 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Univ of Saigon 68..   Welcome to MSW.   I suggest you do a intro in the new member area.   From your screenname, I gather you are a vet.   In my branch we referred to it as the "Univeristy of Science Music and Culture.... Da Nang Campus".

I will.  Actually, I was in Saigon for only a day, but University of Saigon sounds more impressive than Long Bin Technical School of Digging Holes, Filling Sand Bags, and Standing Guard Duty.

[Canute]

Welcome home, brother. Flew out of Thailand, but did a number of refuel & re-arm turns in Bien Hoa and Da Nang by the sea. I tend to the PVA for ropes. CA usually dries shiny.

[wefalck]

My material of choice is a fast-drying solvent-based varnish that is sold over here in Europe as zapon-lacquer. In composition it is rather similar to solvent-based nail-varnish. Apart being fast-drying, i.e. within minutes, it has the advantage that you can undo any knots with a drop of solvent (acetone) should the need arise.

[glbarlow]

For a direct answer to your question: Not only for ratlines but for all rigging I use White PVA diluted with distilled water to about a 50:50 mix.  I also use mat medium clear acyrillic in some cases, both dry near invisible. I’m a fan of CA for other purposes in model building, but not on rigging. 

[TBlack]

I like this stuff:

Also, spent some time in Da Nang in '67-'68. We should start a club!

Tom

 

[Univ of Saigon 68]

3 hours ago, TBlack said:

I like this stuff:

Also, spent some time in Da Nang in '67-'68. We should start a club!

Tom

 

Already have one.  It's called Cranky Irascible Old Codgers Club.

[TBlack]

7 hours ago, Univ of Saigon 68 said:

Already have one.  It's called Cranky Irascible Old Codgers Club.

Great! How do I join?

Tom

[Univ of Saigon 68]

On 11/24/2022 at 9:33 PM, TBlack said:

Great! How do I join?

Tom

If you spent time in our misbegotten Asian adventure and are over 70, you're probably already a member and just don't know it.