US Brig Syren by bobandlucy - Model Shipways - 1:64

[bobandlucy]

I selected the USS Syren  for my seventh model. There are many build logs on MSW for this kit, and I was unsure if I'd do a log this time. After reading a few logs I decided that I may well need some advice along the way, so here I go. . .

 

I previously constructed all of David Antscherl's kits available at Model Expo. I learned much from each of them, and enjoyed the experience. I hope to achieve additional growth in this hobby constructing this Syren kit designed by Chuck Passaro, who also has an excellent reputation.

 

My goals for this build:

 

1. The POB models I have done thus far have been furnished with "pre-shaped" planking, which is a great help, but I'd like to be able to construct a hull from stock planks, a skill necessary for scratch-building.

 

2. Make a decent coppered hull.

 

3. Move up a step in more involved rigging. The ME Harriet Lane I made had pretty involved rigging, and I'm really proud of getting it done, and pretty nicely. Pictures of the Syren's rigging are absolutely mind-blowing. I like the feeling of total concentration and spatial awareness required. I do need to obtain the best magnifying visor/glasses for this task as I've had at least one disaster, sometimes more, on each rigged model- snagging rigging on the visor trying to get a better view. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Reading glasses used to be optional for me- but no longer. . .

 

4. Obtain appropriate reference materials so I might have a better understanding of ship features and operation, as well as the history of this particular ship. 

 

I'm doing inventory against the parts list now, filing the small stuff into a compartmentalized plastic case as I go. I will probably not try to count the 320 small eyebolts and 310 3/32" blocks. . . but am counting everything else.

 

I will be requesting a replacement for the cast metal "stern carvings," which may be the worst castings I've ever seen. I'm hoping that someone can suggest an alternate for these parts. . .

 

More later

 

Bob

 

 

[GGibson]

Hi Bob! Not sure I'll ever get to the quality build of the Syren... but going to follow you with great interest on this build log.  Thanks for sharing your work and time!  Best wishes on a great, yet challenging ship build!

[bobandlucy]

Built a building board. . . spine was warped as usual, but the board seems to hold it straight.

 

I found it difficult to carve the required bevels in the plywood spine and bulkheads. Got it done, leaving some material for fairing. All my bulkheads except one were loose, and I am installing them with card and paper shims. For that reason, I am going to delay the final fairing until after all the bulkheads are glued in. I just have to figure out how to support the model upside down.

 

Tapered the bow piece and tinkered with the figurehead to achieve a nice fit.

 

 

 

 

[bobandlucy]

I forgot to mention the fact that I cut the holes in the spine for the masts and boxed them in. While doing that I found that at least the one plan I used for locating the masts was not printed at the correct scale. I decided to use the lines for the bulkheads nearest each mast as a reference point. . . I hope that works out OK. Looking at the deck plan it seems like there might be a little wiggle room.

 

I found the framing templates PDF's posted on another log and downloaded those. Going forward I'll need to figure out the scale correction factor to adjust photocopies of the plans for use in locating other elements.

 

I've encountered this kind of error before in ME's printed plans- I just don't get why they can't seem to get this simple and essential thing right. Frustrating.

 

On the bright side, a neighbor gave me this used wooden tool chest which she found at Goodwill ($25.00!!) for Christmas. I absolutely love it. It weighs a ton!

 

 

 

[GGibson]

Nice chest, Bob! (Maybe the first time in your life you've heard that, huh?)  😄

[bobandlucy]

Added the filler blocks, made out of poplar wood:

 

[bobandlucy]

I made a support structure for holding the model upside down.

 

Began the final fairing. This may take a while. . . Fairing plywood is more difficult than fairing basswood! It looks like I will need to add shim to a couple of areas. I'm not going to rush this. So far I haven't broken any of the bulwarks. 

 

 

[tlee01]

Great start Bob, I really like your logs so I am glad you decided to do one.  BTW I like the chest.

[bobandlucy]

"Finished" the fairing of the bulkheads, although it looks like some additional work needs to be done on the bow area. 

 

I added the sills and lintels, and am closing in on fairing them to the bulwarks, on the outboard sides. This is very difficult to do without gouging the bulkheads/bulwarks, while maintaining the curve of the bulwarks- and indeed I have minor problems in a few places. When I am done I may have to do a little repair work. Looking at other logs, I see similar. This is taking a long time, I've been sanding for days now, and the inboard looks to be even trickier! Then comes the gun port framing, and more fairing. Luckily, I've become pretty patient in my age (except when waiting in lines, then I tend to commiserate with the other prisoners around me).

 

Amidships, some of the lintels protrude above the tops of the bulwarks. On the port side, I sanded the lintels flush, and subsequently read in another log that one should not do that, as the planking may rise above the tops of the bulwarks, so I did not do the same on the starboard side. Not the end of the world, obviously I can add material if I have to.

 

 

 

The bow filler pieces need more fairing, in fact it looks like I didn't touch the inside surface on one side at all, in any case the angles I did sand are incorrect. I may take them out and start over, but later.

 

The framing elevation drawings provided are useful, but I won't use them as a template as the manual suggests- they are not elongated to account for the curvature of the ship at bow and stern. The plan view framing plan is pretty close to my model regarding bulkhead locations, so I will take framing locations from that plan using dividers.

 

Back to it!

 

 

 

 

[RossR]

This looks really good.  I have this model on my shortlist for future builds and look forward to following your build.   Good luck.   

[_SalD_]

Hi Bob, just found your new log and will be following along.  Things good great so far.  Good luck and be patient.

[tlee01]

Bob,

 

Looks good as always, just started the 18th century armed long boat.  Need to start a log

 

Gary

[bobandlucy]

I've gone as far (too far, probably) as I will go on the inboard sanding of the sills/lintels. The manual suggests using a folded length of sandpaper. I couldn't figure out a better way, as I wanted to span three bulwarks and not lose the double (S-shaped) curves. I did maintain the curves, but some of the bulwarks curves became exaggerated (thinner in the middle) from over-sanding. I have looked a lot of logs, and it seems that most have ended up with a fairly flat inside surface after planking. I saw a YouTube video in which the modeler attacked this operation, both inside and out, with a small block plane- it looked like he ended up with a flat inside surface also, as one would expect.

 

I finally noticed that the bulwarks were not exactly the same shape on both sides. On one side, the last 1/4 inch meets the bulkhead gracefully, and I was able to sand the sills/lintels pretty flush with the bulwarks. On the other side, this area takes an abrupt angle downward and outboard. This was the second of the sides I sanded, and since I was trying to sand flush this contributed to more over-sanding than on the other side.

 

Since the manual calls for additional thinning of the bulwarks inboard after framing the gun ports, I decided to stop here and start the framing. When I (try to) fair these additional pieces, I'm hoping that areas needing fill will become apparent. This will be true outboard as well, but to a lesser degree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's becoming apparent that I may have selected a model requiring more skill than I actually have, but it's a given that I will learn from it, and so will press on with all due humility!

 

Back to cutting, shaping, and gluing!

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by bobandlucy

[Overworked724]

Following with interest, Bob!!!

[bobandlucy]

Sanding, sanding, sanding. Completed the framing for openings on the sides. I felt the hull was faired pretty well before the process of adding the framing, but in sanding all this down, I created depressions below the sills and lintels that required adding some veneer/shim. There is still a bit more of this to do. I feel that the inside fairing is not perfect, but is getting as close as I'll ever get. . .

 

Three weeks with a cold/bronchitis, had a few down days- convinced me to rethink my aversion to masks (wonder how that arose?), and also two weeks ago to stop smoking. For me smoking goes hand-in-hand with modeling (in fact with everything), so it has been an adjustment. At least on this model I won't stick my face with a lit cig sticking out of my mouth into the rigging! And I can spend the money on tools!

 

 

 

As you can see, I began work on the stern. I don't know why the instructions call for checking the height of the sill for the stern gun port openings after installing the sills- I did that first thing and found that the laser marks were about 1/8" too high for the gun barrels to clear the sills.

 

Used my waterline marker to strike a new line across the bulwarks. The sills appear to be straight and flat.

 

 

 

 

I'm apprehensive about the sanding that will need to be done to fair this framing to the bulwarks. So far, I haven't broken any part, did have some framing come loose during sanding the sides, but if I am to have breaks, this stern is where they will happen!

 

 

[Overworked724]

The stern was a fear of mine too. Until you get your external planking on above the wales they’ll be a concern. After that, it will feel solid as a brick. 
 

Enjoying your build!!!

[_SalD_]

Nice job on the sills and lintels Bob.  Stern is lookin good.  I remember the inboard side of the bulwarks were a challenge to sand.  

Hope you're all recovered from the cold/bronchitis and good luck with quitting smoking.

[bobandlucy]

I needed a break from the work on the hull, so started the longboat. I think it's coming along OK, what a lot of sawdust, though. . .

 

I used the Dremel with drum sanding attachment, as suggested in the manual.

 

 

 

 

There is a lot of material to be removed on the inside, especially from the second lift. I'm not sure if the drum sander will be appropriate there.

 

 

Enough for today.

 

[bobandlucy]

Finished carving/sanding the inside of the longboat. 

 

 

 

 

The instructions call for adding 1/16" square ribs by wet-bending and gluing in while wet. Makes sense as I don't see a good way to clamp and let dry without damaging the boat hull. I've never done this before. . . I assume the PVA will not be appropriate for this, and will try CA

[Bob Fraser]

 

That's a very smooth hull there!

3 hours ago, bobandlucy said:

The instructions call for adding 1/16" square ribs

Got me looking for this- hope I've got it correct.

 

The original prototype build log by Chuck when designing this model had the frames as 1/32"sq. Doing a side a time he placed a stopper length of 1/32sq along the keel to help hold the ribs in place.

The entire longboat build is pages 421 - 444 in the pdf available in the resources, Chucks prototype log,  which I've got to help with myself understanding build processes.

I've just read the official Syren instructions as well. I think you may have the same image retention for numbers as me, as on page 67 the 1/16 refers to the max thickness of the boats hull, and the next paragraph says to use the 1/32sq for the keel rib and side ribs just as the prototype log says, and is shown on the photo on p69. First time I read it I carried the 1/16 forward for the rib size.

I've jumped in with both feet before and used the wrong thickness planking before reading at the next step about the right one. 😬

 

It'll be easier to bend the 1/32sq stuff 😃 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Bob Fraser

[bobandlucy]

Of course you are right, Bob, and I caught my mistake before I started gluing in the ribs! And yes, numbers have always been a problem for me- at work it was something I struggled with, and I learned to check and re-check. . .

 

I do appreciate your checking this. . . I owe you a beer!

 

Bob

Edited March 11, 2023 by bobandlucy

[bobandlucy]

Added the ribs. Could not avoid some crimping in the bends:

 

 

At this point I came to the realization that I should have thinned the hull more- it's going to require a wider cap rail than specified to cover the hull/ribs with a slight overhang all around. The kit-supplied rail was never going to fit even if the overall width of the assembly was as specified. Decided to move forward regardless.

 

Added the grates, thwarts, and mast support:

 

 

Although the 28 gauge wire supplied is supposed to be darkened out of the package, it does not look black enough to me. I may try to paint it black later.

 

Fashioned the windlass from 3/32" square stock. The manual speaks of shaping the octagonal portions by filing and sanding, but my set of micro-files are not fine enough for this, and sanding at this size is hard even at the highest magnification I have available. I carved the piece with my surgical scalpel with a #11 blade. It is octagonal, I think, but may not be exactly uniform. I did find that I like carving. . . 

 

 

 

And finally, my obscenely wide cap rail, which I made in two halves. I was actually very happy that I was able to fashion them at all.

 

 

 

It will be quite a while before I have to commit this longboat to the larger model. I may give it another shot, but I also may not. I remind myself that I am in this for fun, not perfection. . .

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt D]

I think it looks great, Bob.  I’m amazed that you can put so much detail in such a tiny boat.  

[bobandlucy]

Very charitable of you, Matt. Haha, looking at your Winchelsea you are light-years ahead of me! Some of your details are very small and very nicely done. I signed up to follow your project.

 

Bob

[bobandlucy]

Making the knees for the thwarts. 

 

 

 

 

Added the knees at the thwarts, stern and bow. Added the rails at the sides of the hull and painted the area between the cap rail and lower rail black .

Added the oarlocks and bowsprit step.

 

 

One thing I missed: the upper stem and stern post should be stained rather than painted white at the point where they cross the lower rub rail.

I kind of like the effect the way I did it, though, and will keep it as is.

 

I'm hung up on the bowsprit strap, which is supposed to be made of the same tape used for coppering the hull. It is just too thin to manipulate. . .

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by bobandlucy

[allanyed]

B&L

Your workmanship on the boat is very nicely done! 

FOR THE FUTURE - I realize you duplicated the build on the site you show above.  Unfortunately it looks like it is either set up for a double banked boat but missing rowlocks for four thwarts, or, if it is supposed to be single banked there should be one rowlock on alternating sides for every thwart.   This is a common mistake as contemporary drawings' side views usually only show one side of the oarlocks so many presume it is the same on both port and starboard which is not the case for single banked boats.   Drawing below showing 7 thwarts and 4 oarlocks.  The photos below show single banked boats.  FYI boats that were double banked were normally at least 7'6" in breadth.  While Syren was a US ship, there would likely be similarities if not duplication of British design in this time period. 

Allan  

 

 

 

[Jaager]

On 12/30/2022 at 12:24 PM, bobandlucy said:

2. Make a decent coppered hull.

This is a complicated and a "it depends" goal.

If you want the popular version, use actual copper sheets or foil,  to go deeply into decorator kitsch - use the material with soup bowl sized bumps.  Neither will be realistic.

 

A thin archival paper painted with a material containing metallic copper particles will be closer to scale.  There are reactive follow on solutions to get as much or as little green or blue if and as desired.

Being paper, PVA can be used to bond the plates.  Coating the hull with PVA and letting dry at the start,  coating the plates with PVA and letting it dry,  allows for an iron with temp control to fix the plate to the hull -near instantly.  

An experiment to try: 

coat a sheet with PVA.

paint the other side with copper.

I am thinking that mineral spirits or terp based enamel (redundant?) would be better than water based paint - which probably does not like metallic copper anyway - as well as leaving a flat icky finish when dry.

Then use the guillotine to get individual plates.

This may not be kosher,  but each sheet could be painted with a slightly different shade of copper - very slightly different -too show off the plates as being individuals.

 

Questions:

What is the effect of the paint on polymerized PVA on the other side of a sheet of paper?

Would painting first and then coating with PVA on the other side produce a surface incompatible with PVA bonding to it?

If it does not, that means that a wet coat of PVA on the other side of a painted plate could be used to bond the plate to a bare wood hull.  With a 15 min open time, I am guessing that the wet to dry method could be complicated and slower to get a tight bond. 

 

 

On 3/9/2023 at 4:25 PM, bobandlucy said:

There is a lot of material to be removed on the inside, especially from the second lift.

I looked at your outside carved boat hull at this stage - and thought: 'what a wonderful mould!'

Shellac the hull, Fix it upside down on a block.  Mount the stem, keel, and stern.  Saran Wrap or paraffin wax.   Then use thick paper or thin cardboard as scale appropriate planking.

It would be thin, so the rail  need not be as wide. 

You could make as many replicates of the hull as you could possibly want.  As well as not having to be perfect on your first try.

For the ribs -  use a wood that tolerates bending - dry heat bend - increment bend until it fits - being dry, PVA will be the bonding agent.

 

 

[bobandlucy]

Allan, thanks for the information on single/double banked boats. This is all new to me and very interesting. The images are very helpful. I did put the oarlocks in per the instructions and have seen them similarly installed in other build logs. But I'll keep this concept in mind for future projects.

 

Jaager, thank you as well for your ideas. Obviously, I don't have to make a decision about coppering right now. . . I have seen the mold method for making boats on this site, but it did not occur to me that it might be applicable to this project. Why not, though? Still, I had passed that decision-making point already. I may try it in the future. I had stopped thinning the hull because there were areas that were near paper thin, I had to add filler, and did not continue thinning the other areas as perhaps I should have. But I've decided to live with my results, at least for now.

 

The longboat is now finished. I ended up using strips of aluminum from a beer can for the pintles, gudgeons and bowsprit strap. I had to try several times but was finally able to make good cuts with my scalpel. I felt that each experiment required a new can, which I had to empty, so it took a while. To my eye they look to be within scale and are certainly stronger than the copper tape would have been:

 

 

Thanks for the "likes" as well!

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by bobandlucy

[bobandlucy]

Capstan and Binnacle.

 

The capstan was relatively easy to construct, except for the two rows of chocks (black), inserted between the whelps (the vertical strips). These are really tiny, and have to be individually cut to shape. Took awhile, but I think it came out OK.

 

Still need to make a compass for the binnacle. The cast metal bell, which is to be mounted on the top on a wire frame, is too poor a casting to use. May order another.

 

 

 

Eventually I'll start planking. . .

Edited April 4, 2023 by bobandlucy

[allanyed]

Your capstan and capstan look really good 👍

On 3/28/2023 at 5:04 PM, bobandlucy said:

I did put the oarlocks in per the instructions and have seen them similarly installed in other build logs.

Totally understand following the instructions and other logs and it is a big learning curve we all go through.  It pays to take some time away from any build, and do a bit of research of contemporary based information on your own as sometime there are errors, this being a classic case in point.  Look in your own library of books if appropriate or ask away here.  There are a lot of VERY experienced and learned members here at MSW that have helped many of us for many years.   

Allan