Wood filler recommendations

[DonBMichigan]

I'm working on my first wood model and have a need for a little wood filler. Someone suggested auto body filler or a good wood filler. 

 

Without looking at the packaging, I bought some bondo filler at a local hardware store, and when I got home and read the instructions, it warned that it could affect my eyes, damage my hearing (it said this twice!) and basically, try not to be anywhere near this stuff. I thought I'd try a tiny dab to see what it was like and how it worked, and I can still smell it in the house the next day. While I can see how smoothly it went on, and why people like it, I definitely can't use this.

 

I had some hardware store wood putty I have only ever used outside, and while its warnings were less alarming, it still asks for a well-ventilated space, don't breathe this, etc. 

 

So - is there an option for wood filler that doesn't have these kinds of warnings? I work in my basement, and one of the reasons I like modeling and hand-tool woodworking is the quiet, plus the lowered risk of damaging my hands or eyes or lungs. 🙂

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by DonBMichigan

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Back in the day, there used to be a pretty good wood filler known as Hobbypoxy Stuff.  It came in a can pre-mixed and ready to use, and it air dried without (as I remember) much of a smell - and could be sanded once dry (depending on the thickness applied).  Of course, that was back in the day of small hobby shops selling supplies for stick-built model airplanes (RC or not) - plus trains, plastic models, etc.  I've no idea if 'Stuff' is still available, or whether there is an alternate product.

[TBlack]

I've got a couple of thoughts. they depend on whether you are going to paint over the affected area. If you're not painting, try collecting some sawdust from the wood in that area and mixing it with PVA glue and applying it to the area needing filling. If the area is going to be painted, then use a spackling compound to fill the gaps.

Tom

[whitejamest]

There are a lot of options for non toxic wood filler, and things that are a lot easier to use than bondo. Bondo is great for heavy duty applications, but something that dries that hard can be problematic to sand, when the wood around it is so much softer. 

 

Personally, I like to use Goodfilla wood filler. It comes in a variety of colors. It dries decently hard and gives a nice finish, and also it is not so crumbly or brittle. That makes it easier to apply very small amounts of it in tiny crevices and not have it crumble away as it is sanded down. 

 

When I need something softer I'll just use Elmers brand filler - though note that stuff is much more crumbly. 

[John Ruy]

I have found Acrylic products to be less toxic, although the do still have those warnings for ventilation and/or respirators. 
 

Minwax has a good line of color match wood fillers and an acrylic glazing and spot putty works for those final touch ups.

 

John

[RossR]

If it is going to be painted, or for under a second layer of planking, I use Durham's Rock Hard from the hardware store.  cheap and easy to work with.  I don't find any odor problems.  Dries hard and is easily sanded.  It is a powder that is mixed with water and as such I am careful not to inhale it before it is mixed with water.  I mix it to the consistency of peanut butter and sand it the next day.  

 

Not a good option if not painted.  Then I try to find a product like minwax colored wood filler.  

[Roger Pellett]

Durham’s Rock Hard Water Putty.  Cheap, commonly available, fool proof, odor free, and sands to a feather edge.  This is an acrylic powder.  Mixed with water it forms a paste that can be applied with a putty knife.  Unlike other fillers as long as the powder is stored in a dry place it will keep for a long time.  I bought my last can Mid-Pandemic from Amazon but our local Ace Hardware stocks it.

 

Roger

 

Must be a Minnesota Thing!  😀😀

Edited February 7, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[Bob Cleek]

Recognizing that I may be sticking my neck out here, I'll offer the comment that the warnings seen on many solvent-based materials these days exist more for the manufacturer's' protection against products liability lawsuits which often result from the misuse of the product than for the protection of folks who use the product "as directed for the use intended." If you read the warnings now printed on a common ladder, you'd never climb one again. This phenomenon has created a certain level of paranoia in the general public, many of whom shy away from anything that has an odor they've been conditioned to find disagreeable. While chemistry continues to make progress in developing non-solvent-based materials, in most instances these substitute "water-based" materials intended to replace long-established solvent-based materials are inferior to their solvent-based predecessors, particularly with respect to their archival qualities, an important consideration in modeling. When used as directed, meaning "in a well-ventilated workspace" and in the small amounts encountered in modeling, there is generally negligible risk in using solvent-based materials. Commonsense is the order of the day in this respect. Without question, pouring an excessive amount of solvent-based material in a paper bag and "huffing" it is hazardous to your health, but we aren't contemplating that sort of misuse. Sadly, the general public's conditioned reaction to these product warnings has reduced the marketability of valuable materials and chased many manufacturers out of the marketplace entirely. (The demise of Floquil paints being a prime example.) In jurisdictions like California, which requires warning labels on anything that "may cause cancer or birth defects," we find state-mandated warning labels to that effect on everything from gasoline to wine and many long-valued solvent-based products can no longer be legally purchased at all. Local "product safety" ordinances in some California "air quality districts" even go so far as to outlaw the sale of any volatile organic compounds above a certain content limit including simple oil-based enamel paint or paint thinner and the like and, consequently, all that can be purchased anymore are inferior water-based coatings. Mindfulness of shop safety is a good thing, but we should not "throw the baby out with the bath water." Otherwise, we will continue to find valuable materials becoming entirely unavailable to the detriment of our craft.

 

That said, Bondo is a hygroscopic material intended for use on dented automotive body metal and is not intended for nor suitable for use on wooden surfaces. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I forgot about Durham's water putty (which cures fairly tough - perhaps not quite as hard as what Dentists call 'stone, a type of plaster made for casting likeness of teeth after and impression is made), and can be sanded.  You need to apply to a 'porous or fibrous substrate (like coarse sanded planking) ... something with "tooth" for the plaster to grip to.  If one seals first (or the surface is very fine sanded), the dried Durham's can flake off.  No fumes to worry about, mate.  Yet manufacturers are advised by their lawyers to be SUPER cautious and plaster warnings all over whatever product they are selling.  Like a flimsy card table that has a warning - DO NOT stand on this flimsy POS - because it will collapse under your weight.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Snug Harbor Johnny

[allanyed]

1 hour ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

Yet manufacturers are advised by their lawyers to be SUPER cautious and plaster warnings all over whatever product they are selling.

CYA is rampant.  Look at pharma ads for examples.  It takes longer to rattle off the side effects than the benefit.

 

Don,

Regarding the subject at hand, how large are the gaps?   As mentioned above, sawdust and pva work well.   One quick way is to fill the gap (if small) with pva and hit it with an orbital mouse or similar.  

 

Sorry to bring this up, but as you are adding strakes, if there is a large gap, remove the plank before gluing it in place and re-shape it or replace it with a new one that has been properly pre-shaped as shown in the planking tutorial by David Antscherl in the Articles data base here at MSW (https://thenrg.org/resources/Documents/articles/APrimerOnPlanking.pdf) or shown in Chuck Passaro's four part video on how to pre-shape the planks with heated edge bending  Part one --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWooJ1o3cM     Both methods yield properly planked hulls without gaps.

 

Allan

Edited February 7, 2023 by allanyed

[DonBMichigan]

44 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Don,

Regarding the subject at hand, how large are the gaps?   As mentioned above, sawdust and pva work well.   One quick way is to fill the gap (if small) with pva and hit it with an orbital mouse or similar.  

 

 

Not big gaps - just a little to fill in around the breast hook on this dory. Once the filling is done, it will be painted. The sawdust and PVA idea seems like a reasonable solution for this size gap. I can try it on some scrap wood and see how it goes. 

 

 

And thanks (so far!) for the other ideas and thoughts on materials and other things. I am intrigued by the suggestions and will give some of them a try. I appreciate that not all product warnings are dire predictions of physical doom, however, the two items I tried had a pretty strong smell that made me leave the room, which is enough for me to want to avoid them. 

[allanyed]

30 minutes ago, DonBMichigan said:

Once the filling is done, it will be painted. The sawdust and PVA idea seems like a reasonable solution for this size gap. I can try it on some scrap wood and see how it goes. 

It actually might be easier to take out the piece and make a new one.  Your call of course, but just a thought.  Many of us like to use posterboard stock which is pretty stiff or even the cardboard on the back of a tablet to make a template then go from there.  Saves a lot of shaping and do-overs.

Allan

[Bob Cleek]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:26 AM, allanyed said:

CYA is rampant.  Look at pharma ads for examples.  It takes longer to rattle off the side effects than the benefit.

No kidding! Don'tcha just hate waking up in a cold sweat dreaming about that "rare, but life-threatening infection in the skin of the perineum?"  

Edited February 11, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[mtaylor]

I tend to use the sanding dust and PVA but add some water (about 50/50 water to glue) No smell, clean up is easy, and it sands well.  Seems to take finishes and paint.   Not for big gaps or holes though.  

[Tsm209]

I like using pollyfilla for the more larger gaps, spreads easily, dries hard, and is easy to sand, it's also paintable. It gives a smooth wall-like surface. Though for wood models, wood filler is the way to go. 

[DonBMichigan]

On 2/7/2023 at 3:52 PM, allanyed said:

It actually might be easier to take out the piece and make a new one.  Your call of course, but just a thought.  Many of us like to use posterboard stock which is pretty stiff or even the cardboard on the back of a tablet to make a template then go from there.  Saves a lot of shaping and do-overs.

Allan

 

After taking a few days off to think about it, and read responses, I did remove the old piece and make a new one that I'm happy with. 🙂

[navarcus]

Water soluble and extra can be rubbed off planking with wet tissue after gaps are filled.

[Wawona59]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:59 AM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  . . . . Yet manufacturers are advised by their lawyers to be SUPER cautious and plaster warnings all over whatever product they are selling.  Like a flimsy card table that has a warning - DO NOT stand on this flimsy POS - because it will collapse under your weight.

My go to wood filler is a mix of the sawdust from the actual wood I'm using and a 50/50 dilution of Elmer's white PVA glue.  I collect the sawdust with a palm sander and a dust collection bag attachment.  I keep the sawdust in one of those plastic containers that you can get from the fast-food drive in for holding ketchup, etc.  The filler is cheap, non-toxic (depending on wood species) sands well and the filled repair is virtually invisible from the surrounding wood.  Staining the repair leaves a little to be desired IMHO but works well under a painted surface.  Of course, nothing beats tight fitting joints to begin with.

 

The plethora of warning labels on ladders, lawnmowers, automobile airbags, etc. is the result of the courts increasingly holding manufactures and sellers liable for injuries to consumers and bystanders by requiring manufacturers to provide warnings for known hazards in using their product as intended.  They are also required to anticipate product misuse (You, manufacturer should have warned me not to use my table saw without the blade guard attached so I wouldn't have cut my fingers off). One of the justifications for this policy, I believe, is that manufacturers are in the best position to know of the known dangers in using their product.  They are also in the best position to absorb any losses through insurance and pass the associated cost onto all of the other consumers of their product.  So, part of the cost that we pay for that fancy new bandsaw, drill press or other power tool we purchase includes a small portion of the insurance and liability payouts.  I taught college level Business Law for 30 years before I retired.  Before that I practiced law for10 years (please don't hold that against me as I've seen the error of my ways).