HMS Portland 1770 by scrubbyj427 - 1:48 - 4th rate 50-gun ship

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Really nice progress at your prototype model. I love your different jigs.

[scrubbyj427]

6 hours ago, AnobiumPunctatum said:

Really nice progress at your prototype model. I love your different jigs.

Thank you Christian, I’m still thinking of ways to simplify them but as of now they get the job done as intended.

[scrubbyj427]

Starting the gunport framing is the next step once you have all the frames stabilized in the jig.

These are all cut to fit in to slots on the bulkheads, they are also etched to receive the port framing uprights, there are a total of 6 of these pieces/side ,

you’ll notice they are labeled side specific and the direction they face

The three labeled “up” are the bases for all the gun ports and should be carefully installed with a smooth curve up and down the hull,

You may have to sand the slots here and there to adjust the height at some of the bulkheads to achieve a nice run. Once satisfied go ahead and glue it in and let it dry, go over to the other side and do the same while you wait.

Do the same with “port/stbd 2 down” but do not glue it in, just get it snug and in its place.

i found that if you attempt to glue it all in at once, some of the gun ports could be off a little and you won’t be able to adjust properly.

so what I did was start adding the uprights and the gunport template to make sure everything looked ok,

once everything fit well and lined up with the template I glued in the uprights and clamped if necessary 

I also added some glue around the bulkhead upper port frame to attach it firmly to the bulkheads.

You’ll notice above that I’m pulling these parts from the frame jig, this also doubles as a parts tree for all the templates and port frame uprights 

if you look above the jig has UD and GD etched in it with parts contained within etched lines, these correspond to whatever port is directly outboard. The one pictured above says GD and you’ll see that it corresponds to the gun deck port etchings right below it. The uprights are also facing the direction they belong, either a forward or aft upright. I’m going to add more etching to further clarify as well as directional arrows for the port templates. Be careful not to glue the templates in! 
Take your time with this and make sure everything lines up and the same applies to the upper gun deck, line up and glue “port/stbd 3 up” to the bulkheads and carefully glue down “port/stbd 4 down” one gun port at a time. It should turn out pretty nice when complete.

The hull is almost ready to lift out of its base and begin fairing it all for planking, there are just a few steps left.

 

Thanks for looking in.

 

JJ

 

 

Edited February 9 by scrubbyj427

[allanyed]

JJ

Your work looks VERY good!    What contemporary plans did you use for the deck layouts, including gratings, ladder ways, &c?   I assume you used the inboard profile as a guide, but curious about this.  I could only find one contemporary set of deck plans for a fifty of that era, Salisbury 1770.  She is not listed as a Portland class but there are many similarities.   

 

Thanks for sharing on your log. Having a high qual kit of a fifty looks to fill a niche in our hobby.

 

Allan

[scrubbyj427]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

JJ

Your work looks VERY good!    What contemporary plans did you use for the deck layouts, including gratings, ladder ways, &c?   I assume you used the inboard profile as a guide, but curious about this.  I could only find one contemporary set of deck plans for a fifty of that era, Salisbury 1770.  She is not listed as a Portland class but there are many similarities.   

 

Thanks for sharing on your log. Having a high qual kit of a fifty looks to fill a niche in our hobby.

 

Allan

Hi Allan, thank you for the compliment, I’m glad you like the project So far.

 

So to answer your question,

in short, I used a lot of sources.

 

Yes you are correct, I did lean on the IB profile (ZAZ1720) for much of my deck layouts, but I also used this as a springboard into the deck plans for Bristol (ZAZ1751 and ZAZ1750) which without I don’t think I could have pulled this off.
As stated in the beginning, I took a keen interest in the two marshal paintings, Chuck had advised me to research a subject that had a contemporary model still in existence but as far as I know there is no model of Portland, at least one hasn’t surfaced yet, however I felt that between the paintings and the available drawings for the class, that if I did my homework I could come up with a solid representation of what Portland looked like and I think I have.

If you take what we have of Portland starting with ZAZ1718, ZAZ1720 and ZAZ1719 you can get a pretty good idea of her layout compared with the deck plans for Bristol (ZAZ1750,51), I also used Bristol and Isis profiles, both very detailed  (ZAZ1749 and ZAZ1831) and compared with Portland IB profile. From here you can start to spot differences between the three ships.
Luckily Bristol was built in the same yard as Portland and right afterwards so they are very close so I was able to borrow a lot from not only the plans but also the contemporary model (what I could see of it). Also if you really start to study the paintings and compare it with ZAZ1718 you’ll see a lot of consistencies which to me, really validated the paintings which also made me very confident in using the paintings as a guide for the friezes and all the sculptures as well as topside details…that I can see. You can also see some similarities between the Bristol model and Portland paintings this led me to conclude that at some point there was and possibly still is a contemporary model of Portland for which these paintings were based on, and likely built just before the Bristol model, by George Stockwell.

Also I have to note that the diagrams of Leopard in Winfields book were very helpful, and again, they compared really nicely to the Bristol drawings, which helped me arrive at cabin arrangements. Could things have been different on Portland than Bristol regarding her deck layouts? Of course, but if they were I don’t believe it would be a significant difference.  I was able to find some differences in the QD bulkhead arrangements between Bristol and Portland by using the painting, ZAZ1718 and ZAZ1749, this is represented in the 3D model and will show up on the prototype.

Should new discoveries be made, which I have found a few since beginning the design, I will modify and implement into the design/build.
Until additional drawings or a contemporary model surfaces  I feel confident in saying that I have a pretty good representation of what Portland looked like especially her outside appearance. 

 

JJ

 

 

[bdgiantman2]

I'm seeing a ship!! She looks great, keep up this project

[Thukydides]

44 minutes ago, scrubbyj427 said:

Portland paintings this led me to conclude that at some point there was and possibly still is a contemporary model of Portland for which these paintings

I know at least for sphinx the painting was based on perspectives done up by draughtsman based on the plans. Now where Portland was launched prior to the paintings it is possible a model of it existed or that marshall actually saw the ship in question, but it is possible he used some creative license with the decorations.

Edited February 10 by Thukydides

[allanyed]

 

8 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

I did lean on the IB profile (ZAZ1720) for much of my deck layouts,.................

Thanks JJ this a great stuff.  I had downloaded all the drawings you mention from the high res group of plans on the Wiki Commons site as well as the many that you were so kind to send me.   I love the fifties and Bristol or Salisbury are on my hit list to draw up frames and hopefully build as they both still have a lot of carvings and no copper bottom sheathing when launched as it is my understanding coppering did not really come into common use until the late 1770s.  What are you using for scantlings in addition to the plans?  The closest I ever found find are those in the 39 page 1745 Establishment and Shipbuilder's Repository 1788.  There are likely some differences  and the plans are the obvious go to rather than these two sources if there is a controversy.  I greatly admire the research you have done!

Allan

Edited February 10 by allanyed

[scrubbyj427]

On 2/10/2024 at 10:13 AM, bdgiantman2 said:

I'm seeing a ship!! She looks great, keep up this project

Thank you Brain. More to come soon!

[scrubbyj427]

On 2/10/2024 at 10:14 AM, Thukydides said:

I know at least for sphinx the painting was based on perspectives done up by draughtsman based on the plans. Now where Portland was launched prior to the paintings it is possible a model of it existed or that marshall actually saw the ship in question, but it is possible he used some creative license with the decorations.

It is certainly possible that some license was used. But I would have to think that a drawing similar to Bristol side profile (ZAZ1749) would have existed for Portland as she was the lead of class, that would have given an accurate example of her carvings and friezes, but who knows, it was 250 years ago that the paintings were made. Who knows what was lost in that time or what is yet to be discovered.

[Thukydides]

26 minutes ago, scrubbyj427 said:

It is certainly possible that some license was used. But I would have to think that a drawing similar to Bristol side profile (ZAZ1749) would have existed for Portland as she was the lead of class, that would have given an accurate example of her carvings and friezes, but who knows, it was 250 years ago that the paintings were made. Who knows what was lost in that time or what is yet to be discovered.

You are right, that is very possible.

 

At the end of the day even if we think marshall made the decorations up, what do we replace it with. In the absence of other primary evidence I would say what he makes up is more reflective of a likely scheme than anything I could come up with.

[scrubbyj427]

14 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

You are right, that is very possible.

 

At the end of the day even if we think marshall made the decorations up, what do we replace it with. In the absence of other primary evidence I would say what he makes up is more reflective of a likely scheme than anything I could come up with.

As the guy designing Portland, I’m really hoping he didn’t make it up lol. I suppose we can look at his other works and compare them to their existing contemporary models and or their existing drawings and come to conclusions on how reliable Marshall’s work really was. Since that series of paintings was ordered by King George himself, I’m betting Marshall did some of his best work, I know I would have. 😂

[scrubbyj427]

18 hours ago, allanyed said:

 

Thanks JJ this a great stuff.  I had downloaded all the drawings you mention from the high res group of plans on the Wiki Commons site as well as the many that you were so kind to send me.   I love the fifties and Bristol or Salisbury are on my hit list to draw up frames and hopefully build as they both still have a lot of carvings and no copper bottom sheathing when launched as it is my understanding coppering did not really come into common use until the late 1770s.  What are you using for scantlings in addition to the plans?  The closest I ever found find are those in the 39 page 1745 Establishment and Shipbuilder's Repository 1788.  There are likely some differences  and the plans are the obvious go to rather than these two sources if there is a controversy.  I greatly admire the research you have done!

Allan

Allan, for scantlings I found that the deck plans were a great source. The resolution of the scans really allowed me to zoom in quite far in CAD and produce accurate copies. They also worked well in correlation with the inboard profile of Portland. I kept the dimensions of the Timbers very close to the original drawings (keeping modeling and wood production in mind), I ended up with a good representation of what the drawings show.

[scrubbyj427]

Once the gun port frames are complete we can move on to some final structural elements of the hull, there are a series of hance pieces and fairing caps that need to be added.

these are quite simple and really just need to be checked for fit and adjusted if needed. Some of the frames are cut short and or at an angle for the hance pieces to rest on, for example the one seen below, aft of the waist.

Both of these sit at an angle to minimize shaping.

After all the hance pieces are installed then we can move onto all the fairing caps. The two forward caps are laser cut and before they get glued down, the forward bulkhead needs to be temporarily installed to make sure everything is aligned. There are a series of laser cut pieces that make up the beak head bulkhead assembly,

begin with the lower beam that will support the bulkhead

carefully glue the lower pieces on as seen in the photo above, the lower pieces will hang off about 1/4”, they act as a stop against the frame as well as a landing for the sundeck and later on, the grating assembly.

once this is together it can be placed on the forward most frame, there are slots there to receive the beam

once the beam is in place then go ahead and slide the top one in, it’s orientation isn’t important now but the slots for the timber heads faces aft,

if the  forward hance pieces were placed correctly then the upper forcastle fairing cap will fit perfectly into the notches in the beak head bulkhead and protrude about 1/32.

Do not glue the beak head assembly together yet, it all needs to come out so we can fair in inside of the hull first. The sub deck assembly can be tested too, it should drop right in. 

you can see the beak head bulkhead has a larger cut for the bowsprit than the beam behind it, this is basically establishing a fairing line to clear the bowsprit. Will detail further as we approach that part of the build.

The hull is now ready for some fairing, the MDF Sands down pretty easy.

I got about 1/4 of the stbd side completed last night.

Now there are some more structural parts that make up the stern, that need to added after the sides are faired up, I will cover those soon….after a few more days of sanding.

 

Thanks for looking in,

JJ

 

[allanyed]

Hi JJ

Looking REALLY good!  Your attention to details is great and if you do go forward with offering a kit it will be a worthwhile investment for any kit builder.  The knee of the head is spectacular, especially the tapering which is not commonly seen on the majority of modern models.

Allan

[rlb]

Looking great, JJ!  

[the learner]

Wow! What a project. Interesting how you are putting it all together. Is this intended to be a fully pla ked model? I know you talked about frames earlier if I remember.

[scrubbyj427]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi JJ

Looking REALLY good!  Your attention to details is great and if you do go forward with offering a kit it will be a worthwhile investment for any kit builder.  The knee of the head is spectacular, especially the tapering which is not commonly seen on the majority of modern models.

Allan

Hi Allan, thank you for the compliments. This thing has the bar set high. I intend to park it right next to my Winchelsea when they are both complete. So I can’t afford to leave out any details.

 

As for a kit, yes I do intend to offer it, just not quite yet, I’ve got to get quite far advanced in the build before I can release it. I’m hoping in a years time I’ll be able to offer the first two chapters.

[scrubbyj427]

5 hours ago, rlb said:

Looking great, JJ!  

Thank you Ron.

[scrubbyj427]

1 hour ago, the learner said:

Wow! What a project. Interesting how you are putting it all together. Is this intended to be a fully pla ked model? I know you talked about frames earlier if I remember.

Thanks for looking in Guy. Yes I do plan to fully plank this hull. The design is in place for a framed version and I have some parts here to test it.
Long story but I was going to partially frame this one until I couldn’t come up with enough AYC to cut remaining frames I needed, so I then ordered pearwood from Vahur and it was stolen by my lovely neighbors. So I just cut the remaining bulkheads and decided to build this version planked. I will eventually show how the framed version will work with a test mid section.

JJ

[KennyH78]

JJ, coming along nicely and I must second the comment by Allan on the attention to detail.  Your model will look stunning next to your Winnie.

1 hour ago, scrubbyj427 said:

stolen by my lovely neighbors

That really sucks, I hope that you are able to get your timber back.  Seems like you just can't trust anyone anymore these days.  That is why I have cameras set up all over the exterior of my house.

[glbarlow]

You’re putting a lot of hard work in this and I can see attracting a crowd interested in your research.  I have no detailed questions, just impressed at what you’ve accomplished already.

[scrubbyj427]

23 hours ago, KennyH78 said:

JJ, coming along nicely and I must second the comment by Allan on the attention to detail.  Your model will look stunning next to your Winnie.

That really sucks, I hope that you are able to get your timber back.  Seems like you just can't trust anyone anymore these days.  That is why I have cameras set up all over the exterior of my house.

Thank you Kenny, I’m hoping that it will finish into a nice model. Lots of work!

Yes, neighbors are dirtbags. I think Vahur was even more upset to hear.

[scrubbyj427]

13 hours ago, glbarlow said:

You’re putting a lot of hard work in this and I can see attracting a crowd interested in your research.  I have no detailed questions, just impressed at what you’ve accomplished already.

Thank you Glenn. Doing the dreaded hull fairing now. Apologies in advance to all who may attempt building this thing.😂

[scrubbyj427]

So I have been fairing the hull up the last week, I’ve mostly been working on the top sides with the model remaining upright.

My plan is to fair the hull to the lower wales and start planking upwards on both sides before I move the hull from its stands and flip it over. Once all the frame extensions are planked I will coat the inside with epoxy, this will make everything rigid and allow the removal of all internal jig structure, from there I will begin planking from the wales down.

 

As mentioned earlier there are some remaining structural parts to add after initial fairing has been completed, this is all centered around the stern as you can see below. Below you can see some additional pieces that further tie the stern frames together and define the upper and lower counter.

These pieces can now be added, they are quite simple. You’ll notice that one of them has decorative panels on it, this is one of the first attractive parts that needs to be added now and I’ll cover this shortly.

We will begin with the two pieces etched with upper and lower, these tie the frames together and define both counters as well as where the windows will be placed on the gun deck.

adding the lower piece, I did heat it a little to help it conform easier as it needs to have the proper round up on it, the frames and the jig will hold its shape but it was just easier

to install with a little bend to it. Be careful NOT to glue it to the jig! You can see above that I only added glue to the frames. You can add a rubber band to it and utilize the pegs above on the jig to ensure it’s held tight. Go ahead and repeat the exact same process with the horizontal frame marked “upper”.

Now we move up to the balcony area, this is made of two parts with help tie the upper structure together by also define the balcony and act as a sub deck, fancy mouldings will also attach here.

You’ll notice the two little notches in the outboard stern frames as well as the notches in the middle frames, these notches line up the balcony pieces. We will begin with the lower piece that has the panels etched in. Before installing the paneled piece I finished sanded it and gave it a nice coat of WOP for protection. It will be awhile before it gets attention again.

The upper and lower balcony pieces look very similar but they are not and will not interchange so pay attention. The etched panels need to face down, the panel slides into the slots in the frames, make sure it fits the frames and is angled the same as the slots. This should be easy but be sure, this also defines the angle of the upper deck. You can now install the upper piece, they will be laminated together and should line up perfectly

I clamped them together carefully with some small clamps hanging off the ends to help maintain the correct round up. You can also see I put a support piece under the center clamp just to make sure the clamp weight didn’t pull the balcony down to the wrong angle

below you can clearly see the deck angle on the 3D model.

Once this is complete we have some filler pieces that need to be added, these will define the outside of the lower counter.

Starting with the larger one and working outward

this just glued to the outboard stern frame and the gun port framing structure. I only used two per side. There will be a template of the lower counter that you apply after it is all faired up. This will give you the shape of the counter that can now be shaped/sanded from the sides.

 

You can see below I already started fairing the frames in preparation for the counter template. I will cover this next.

Ive also hired Horatio Hornblower as a project manager from @chris wattonand the staffing agency at Vanguard models.

Amazing detail on this resin print, now I need to attempt painting him. So far he seems pleased with the progress and I wouldn’t dare argue with an armed Captain.

Thanks for looking in,

JJ

[Thukydides]

1 hour ago, scrubbyj427 said:

Amazing detail on this resin print, now I need to attempt painting him. So far he seems pleased with the progress and I wouldn’t dare argue with an armed Captain.

He is great fun to paint, lots of nice detail, I also like the way he is posed and the flow of the clothes, it feels natural where to put the highlights. Though mine was smaller (1/64th), I found the details lent themselves well to being brought out by paint.

 

If you are planning to remove him from his base go slowly as the resin is a bit brittle.

[scrubbyj427]

2 hours ago, Thukydides said:

He is great fun to paint, lots of nice detail, I also like the way he is posed and the flow of the clothes, it feels natural where to put the highlights. Though mine was smaller (1/64th), I found the details lent themselves well to being brought out by paint.

 

If you are planning to remove him from his base go slowly as the resin is a bit brittle.

This will be my first shot at painting a figure like that, so there may be a couple do overs. I do plan to remove from the base and build a thin one out of AYC. The current base puts him close to an additional 6”+ taller at scale. These figures really put the models in perspective. 

[Siggi52]

Hello JJ,

it is always amazing to see, what one can construct on a computer.

[allanyed]

Hopefully Ed Tosti (Naiad and Young America) sees this and can add some information.  I had the privilege to visit him at his home quite a few years ago and see his collection of miniature military figures prior to his fabulous work on the ship models and books.  I have never seen better representation than his collection.   Maybe PM Ed to ask if he can lend some advice/methods based on his experience.   

Allan  

Edited February 28 by allanyed

[scrubbyj427]

5 hours ago, Siggi52 said:

Hello JJ,

it is always amazing to see, what one can construct on a computer.

Thank you Siggi. I’ve had to build two models, one complete on the computer and one that’s at my workbench. The goal is to get them as close to exactly the same as possible!