Advice Needed on Next Build

[BurgundyModels]

Hey everyone! Relatively new wood ship modeler here, and also new to Model Ship World (just introduced myself last week). I'm another transplant from the plastic model kit world, and decided just this year to build my first wood kit. Now I have 1 3/4 kits under my belt. I finished the OcCre Polaris this year, and immediately turned around and started into the OcCre Golden Hind, which I expect to complete in a few weeks. I'm putting some thought into my next build, and wanted to get some input from the community.

 

I've been looking through tons of build logs and forum postings to get an idea of the "trajectory" of users shipbuilding careers. I had no idea of the available kits until I found the OcCre website, and even then took months building myself up for the challenge. I considered the Polaris quite a challenge indeed, and hopefully laid the foundation for skills to come. I chose the Golden Hind for a couple reasons: I wanted the next "challenge" in line from the Polaris, and also wanted to build something old so I could experiment with some different finishes, etc. Got a good feel for deck planking, and although my hull planking turned out pretty rough, each iteration gets better.

 

I'd like to see what the general consensus is for the next build, both in terms of overall difficulty and natural skill progression. Initially I wanted to jump into the OcCre frigate Diana, but after reading through the post here regarding jumping into frigates, I shelved that idea. Doing some more homework, I found different builds like the Vanguard models geared for Novices (Sherbourne jumps out at me), the Artesania Latina schooners (Harvey and Virginia), Model Shipways offerings (armed Virginia sloop, US Brig Syren, Rattlesnake), as well as the "Medium" difficulty ships from OcCre (Beagle, Terror). I feel that while OcCre might be the logical next step in having already built two OcCre ships, I want to ensure I'm not building bad habits, or getting used to build techniques that are maybe OcCre specific (like the planking, etc.). I also want to broaden the skill set as I go. The Golden Hind was quite a bit different challenge-wise in that the instructions were somewhat lacking in comparison to the Polaris, and forced me to think outside the box to assemble things. I love the look of the bigger ships, but don't want to fall into the trap that has been warned against repeatedly here. 

 

Anyways, apologies for the long winded ask, but certainly looking for peoples opinions, as well as your own journeys. The community here is amazing, never have I found so many awesome individuals getting together for such a fantastic purpose.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[JacquesCousteau]

I'm not sure how helpful my response is, but I don't think there's any one right answer. What sort of vessel interests you the most, and what aspects of building do you enjoy most, dislike most, and want to focus on improving? You mentioned that the Golden Hind's instructions forced you to think outside the box--did you enjoy the challenge, or would you prefer better instructions for the next model? If you're really most interested in a frigate, it would certainly be a step up in complexity, but you do have experience you can build on, you're not starting from zero (and if part of a build is too complicated or frustrating, you can always set it aside for a bit--that's part of what I've enjoyed about having multiple builds going at once). On the other hand, a smaller warship might also be useful as an intermediate step for building skills in fully rigging masts and cannon. About the only firm advice I would give is not to build a ship you're not interested in.

 

There are many paths in modeling, and it's really just about finding what you enjoy. For example, I've found that I'm really not interested in warships, and I'm not a big fan of rigging so I don't plan on ever building a full-rigged ship. Instead, I've found smaller wooden working boats to be extremely rewarding subjects and interesting research topics in their own right, and I particularly enjoy the challenges of scratchbuilding (whether whole models or just additions to kits, which I'm still happy to build). That said, I've also chosen projects that allow me to progressively build skills, rather than jumping straight into some of the more complex scratch builds I hope to do one day. All of which is to say, there's no one right path, it's just a question of asking yourself what interests you and what is feasible.

[BurgundyModels]

@JacquesCousteau I appreciate your response. I very much enjoyed the challenge that the Golden Hind presented, and certainly want to scale up the difficulty a bit without necessarily scaling up the size of the ship. I know that a lot of that answer is dependent on what I like, and what interests me about these ships. Personally, I love warships, and love the assorted deck details that make them feel real, so perhaps realism as well. I suppose I want to harden the "baseline" shipbuilding skills in smaller forms, as opposed to taking my current skillset and scaling it up to a larger, but perhaps less realistic kit.

 

When I first started this past February, I ordered some paints from Model Expo. I received one of the sample catalogs with the Model Shipways ships in them, and after looking at some of their instruction manuals, I felt immediately overwhelmed. Fast forward 6 or 7 months to today, and I look at those very same instructions as something that I can actually build!

 

Your input definitely helps point me in the right direction!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  I've gone through the builds of the Harriet Lane available on two forums, and it has several things going for it ... an interesting transitional Coast Guard Cutter with both steam (side wheels) and sail - but not too much sail;  there are guns - but not too many of them; a decent size model - but not too large;  decent plans and instructions from Model Shipways - a well thought-of kit maker.

  The only oddity I've seen is that most builders find that the guns hit the top of the gunport (bottom of the gunwale) and tilt slightly downward.  'Not sure how this anomaly occurred, and the gun barrels have been verified as being to scale.  The easiest 'fix' deals with the height of the gun carriages - and the bottoms can be sanded down (just run over sandpaper on a flat surface) before fixing the axles (with the notches for the axles deepened accordingly).  That will lower the front of the gun carriages enough so that the gun barrels will point horizontally.  Forewarned is forearmed, and other than this small fix, the kit look appropriate for your trajectory.  Pricing and availability vary, but I attach a picture (below) of one on eBay just now.

 

 

  Another suggestion is Artesania Latina's Bluenose 2 1:75 (with caveat).  They've simplified a number of details to make it appropriate for a fair spread of ability.  The 'fix' is to get a copy of L.B.Jensen's hand drawn book "Bluenose II", which has everything needed to vastly improve the details and rigging from an 'out of the box' build, and you are capable of doing upgrades. OR, Model Shipways has a 1:64 Bluenose (original) ... slightly larger and of the original ship built in 1921.  And the Jensen book has diagrams of that as well, plus the rigging is virtually identical.  She's a schooner but (with the book to supplement instructions) you'll learn a lot about fore-and-aft rigging without having do deal with the well over 100+ lines of a clipper.

 

[BurgundyModels]

@Snug Harbor Johnny I appreciate the suggestions! Both of those kits look gorgeous. The Bluenose II came up on my radar from looking through logs. I was initially apprehensive about trying Model Shipways, but after seeing their line of American ships (I'm from the US), I was quite intrigued. They also scored very high on the poll that was taken here regarding the kit quality/etc. I appreciate your input!

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Looked over builds of both the M.S. 1:64 Bluenose I and the A.L. Bluenose II 1:75, and concluded that the A.L. kit has somewhat easier hull construction.  The bulwarks are a single applied piece ... the build by Travis notes the slight bulkhead correction needed in one place, as well as the addition of a small triangular piece at the bow (later hidden by a larger piece of trim) that will better secure the bow joint of the bulwarks.  This feature permits the application of correct sized stanchions along the interior of the bulwark where they need to go. I noted how Travis applied the thin fore keel during the planking process, and other helpful aspects of the build.  The model is a good compromise size.  The builder needs to download the instructions and there are no drawings.

 

  The M.S. kit makes a somewhat larger model (ergo larger case required later), and has planked bulwarks against extensions of the bulkheads.  Many kits have it this way, and requires shaving to get the correct size of stanchions that will not stand out from added stanchions in between.  The kit has better instructions and there are drawings, but the level of difficulty is somewhat higher overall.

 

  I decided to go with the A.L. kit (now in my stash) in conjunction with the Jensen book (to use as a guide - making up for the lack of information connected with the kit) for a future retirement project.  There are smaller scales of Bluenose kits available that I wanted to avoid, since the 1:96 projects I have to finish get fiddly with correct sized rigging blocks, belaying pins, etc.

 

 

[Ronald-V]

I would turn it around and first pick out a few models that you really like and then ask if they are feasible for your level
Personal taste is very important in my opinion. Also to keep yourself motivated to finish something.

By the way, I think you can't go wrong with a model from Vanguard Models, in terms of material and construction descriptions. But other brands have certainly released good models with extensive instructions.

[BurgundyModels]

@Ronald-V I definitely appreciate that advice. Sometimes I get caught up in thinking that there are kits I "should" build, and almost forget that at the end of the day, it's supposed to be fun 😀 It's interesting to see the different quality kits and instructions, even with the same vendors. One kit might be very quality, yet another may be quite a bit older with poor instructions, etc. I was leaning toward Artesania Latina, but realized that it was pretty much the same as the OcCre kits. Nothing bad about OcCre, but now that I have 2 from them, the intent was to branch out a bit and learn other skills.

 

I concluded that instead of taking my existing skillset and scaling it up (with a larger kit), I can tackle a smaller kit with high detail. Almost quantity vs. quality.

 

-Ron

 

 

[Wawona59]

Hi Ron.  Welcome to Model Shipworld.  I'd like to second what Ronald said.  Get a model subject that interests you in order to maintain your motivation.  The Bluenose that Snug Harbor suggested is a good one.  I'm partial to Model Shipways kits and am currently working on their 21' Pinnace designed by MSW's own moderator Chuck Passaro.  I'm enjoying this build although there are a couple of tricky steps IMHO.  My last suggestion is the Model Shipways New Bedford Whaleboat with plans and instructions by Eric A.R. Ronneberg, Jr.  The plans are outstanding, and the instruction manual is a 100+ page treatise detailing the history of the whaleboats as well as step by step instructions.  When you finish the Whaleboat, you will have a unique model that is sure to garner comments from those who view it.  There are several build logs on MSW for the Pinnace as well as the New Bedford Whaleboat.  Both highly recommended.  I wish you my best in your search for your next project.

 

Welcome Aboard!

 

 

Edited September 11 by Wawona59
fix typos

[vaddoc]

21 hours ago, JacquesCousteau said:

I particularly enjoy the challenges of scratchbuilding

Do consider having a look at the Dark Side! It can be great fun.

[Freebird]

 

Let me add my 2 cents. I've been a modeler for decades of R/C airplanes and this I feel has given me some skills that have helped me to transition over to model ship building, so keep this in mind. After reading many build logs and seeing some of the awesome and inspiring builds on MSW, I decided to start with Chuck Passaro's Medway Longboat. It ticked off a lot of boxes for my first build. It was of a nice size, the instructions were very detailed, no guns, limited rigging, learning to single plank a hull and a fair amount of scratch building even though it was a "kit." Plus, the subject matter had a tremendous amount of appeal for me. Best of all, there were several build logs and the designer was available to answer questions and give advice - priceless! My Longboat came out very nicely and I attribute this to the well thought out design and available help. Chuck has a way of building confidence and making you think that you can build anything. For me, anything that Chuck has designed would be a great choice, Model Shipways has a few of his designs with very nice instructions. Chuck also has some offerings at his own company "Syren Ship Model Company". Check it out!

 

Best Regards .... Rick

 

 

[mtdoramike]

The Model Shipways Bluenose is a great kit, and a pretty easy build especially the planking of the hull. But to me, if you planked the Golden Hind, then you should be able to plank just about any model because planking is the hardest part of any ship model build. So if you can turn out a decent planking job then the sky is the limit for you are far as models to build. 

[BurgundyModels]

@Wawona59 that is a great looking kit! The Model Shipways kits look amazing, and pretty daunting as well. Looks like quite a bit more "realistic" as far as the approach taken to building them. The Pride of Baltimore II caught my eye as well, very beautiful looking ship. I appreciate the advice and kind wishes. 

 

@Freebird the Chuck Passaro kits look really good. I've watched his planking videos about a dozen or more times now. Is there a list of ships that are Chuck quality? Or how would I know just browsing the Model Shipways website? I would like to do a smaller warship or schooner next, so hopefully can find something that fits the bill.

 

@mtdoramike I appreciate you saying so! The planking of the Golden Hind was rough, but came out OK in the end. I would love to tackle a build with the "correct" way to plank (OcCre planking is different, it leaves gaps that are later filled. No problem there, just different).

 

Thank you everyone for the input. I appreciate the knowledge and wisdom conveyed here by fellow shipbuilders. I still have a lot to learn here, your input helps immensely. 

 

-Ron

Edited September 12 by BurgundyModels

[BurgundyModels]

Thank you everyone for your input on this! I'm leaning pretty heavy toward the Model Shipways Shipright Series, the 3 pack of basic ships. I feel that's a great way to further my skillset, while still building some great looking kits. 

[Nirvana]

Ron, just adding my 2 cents as well.

I would suggest staying away from AL at the moment.
Instead go for Syren Ship models or Vanguard.

Both the instructions but plans are easy to follow.

 

[BurgundyModels]

@Nirvana I have heard similar, and while I have no direct experience myself, ultimately decided against the AL Virginia and Harvey kits. They were far too similar to the Polaris build, and I would like to try something different.

 

I ultimately decided on the Model Shipways Shipright Series 3-pack. I think that is exactly what I needed, to get a baseline of shipbuilding skills.

[Erik A]

On 9/12/2024 at 1:31 PM, Nirvana said:

Ron, just adding my 2 cents as well.

I would suggest staying away from AL at the moment.
Instead go for Syren Ship models or Vanguard.

Both the instructions but plans are easy to follow.

 

thats an interesting comment why is that? i have a couple of AL ones that i am doing and find them to be ok in terms of instructions and buildability. 

 

@BurgundyModels i started in a similar fashion to yourself. i had been interested in doing a wood ship build after many years as a plastic model maker (all be it in my Youth).

i saw a new release Vasa from De Agostini and thought that would be my start. however once i saw the build logs i backed down pretty quickly and ended up with the AL endeavour longboat as my first build (still in progress) mainly as im from New Zealand and the history we have with Capt Cook. life got in the way a bit and it went into dry dock for a while. then i got back to it and also managed to pick up the De Agostini Victory for a bargin. started that as well and again life got in the way and both ships in dry dock. finally got life under control and then i had a spate of buying bargins and getting ships given to me for nothing. i now have 21 ships in the queue. a mixture of big warships, small dory/longboats, midsize ships and even a couple of half ships and a ship in a bottle kit.

one thing i will say is that while Billing Boats put out some kits the instructions are pretty sparse so really aimed at the experienced model builder. 

AL i find ok with pretty good instructions

De Agostini do good instructions as well.

most of the other kits i have are blue jacket and it seems that the person who had them before i got them must have taken all the instructions out to read and didnt put them back so they might be a bit of a struggle. 

 

i am pretty busy with work and stuff so i have fits and starts in doing the builds. 

will be interesting to see what you do next 

[BurgundyModels]

@Erik A I appreciate your input! I'm probably too new to understand all the differences and intricacies with the different brand of ship kits. It seems that even within the same brand, kits can vary wildly with quality and level of provided instructions. I really appreciated the YouTube series for many of the OcCre kits, but also found that as I got more comfortable with different aspects of the build, I no longer needed the videos to help me along. So maybe as I progress through the hobby, quality of instruction won't be as important? Not sure.

 

At any rate, once I do get the new ships going, I'll post a proper build log here, as well as build logs to my own website.

[ERS Rich]

Keep it simple, something with a single mast….

[Landlubber Mike]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:44 AM, Ronald-V said:

I would turn it around and first pick out a few models that you really like and then ask if they are feasible for your level

 

100% agree with this.  You've already got experience building wooden kits (and lots of experience building plastic kits), so at this stage I would argue that you can probably handle almost any kit out there.  To me, assembling the hull/planking and rigging are probably the two areas with the biggest learning curve.  You've already built two hulls and rigged both a 2-mast and a 3-mast ship, so you're well on your way as you already have experience with the pitfalls, things to look out for, etc.  The bigger subjects typically just involve more repetitive steps than the ones you already built.  If you feel like you're still not fully comfortable "moving up" then just buy a kit you like that is well designed with good instructions - like the ones from Vanguard or Syren - which have really good instruction manuals and/or kits with detailed build logs on here to help you along.

 

FWIW, I started with the Caldercraft Badger, and I hadn't built a model since I was a kid.  I picked it over some of the very basic kits that were recommended to me in large part because I wasn't interested in those subjects and Caldercraft put together a very good manual to help walk me through the build.  Also, there were a few other people here building the kit, so us "Badger Brothers" helped each other along the way.  Took me a while to get up the learning curve, but to me it was a better use of my time starting with a subject I liked than having first gone with an easier kit that I wasn't too into.  I've gone the opposite route of you and got sucked into plastic kits at the moment, but I managed to make a good start on the Amati Pegasus, MS Charles Morgan, and Euromodel La Renommee and felt like I had plenty of experience from the Badger to work on those.  

 

I know this is counter to what a lot of people recommend here - essentially to start with a level one kit, move to level two, and so on.  I'd argue that with your experience on the two kits that you've built, you have the experience to tackle almost any kit out there so pick a subject you like, take your time, and have fun.

 

 

Edited September 16 by Landlubber Mike

[BurgundyModels]

@Landlubber Mike I appreciate the vote of confidence! Building these ships has introduced me to such a wildly new skillset, thank goodness for all the guides and wonderful users here helping us newbies along. 

 

I ultimately decided to go with the Model Shipways 3 part Shipright series. I believe it will help to round out everything that I have learned with the OcCre kits, as well as give me an opportunity to test different finishes and approaches without trying things on a larger kit. I appreciate your input, and your Badger looks amazing!!

[rmccook]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:07 PM, BurgundyModels said:

 

I'd like to see what the general consensus is for the next build, both in terms of overall difficulty and natural skill progression. Initially I wanted to jump into the OcCre frigate Diana, but after reading through the post here regarding jumping into frigates, I shelved that idea.

 

 

 

Anyone have a link to this post--shockingly, searching "frigate" isn't helpful, but I'm in the same boat as Burgundy, looking for my next kit and loving the idea of a frigate, but interested to hear the reasons I shouldn't. 

[JacquesCousteau]

53 minutes ago, rmccook said:

 

Anyone have a link to this post--shockingly, searching "frigate" isn't helpful, but I'm in the same boat as Burgundy, looking for my next kit and loving the idea of a frigate, but interested to hear the reasons I shouldn't. 

I think it might be this post: 

That said, it's aimed mostly at a complete beginner, and it sounds like you already have some experience. You can use your judgment as to what makes sense for your skills, display space, etc. And for your interests--no point in choosing a kit that's not actually interesting to you.

 

 

[Thukydides]

1 hour ago, rmccook said:

Anyone have a link to this post--shockingly, searching "frigate" isn't helpful, but I'm in the same boat as Burgundy, looking for my next kit and loving the idea of a frigate, but interested to hear the reasons I shouldn't. 

As Jacques said it is hard to recommend something without knowing your exact skill level. It all depends on how hard your first subject was and how successful you were with it.

 

If you are keen on a warship here are some suggestions that are smaller and easier than a full frigate:

1. Vanguard Models Sherbourne (small cutter)
2. Vanguard Models Alert (large cutter)
3. Vangard Models Flirt or Speedy (small brig)

Especially as a new entrant to the hobby I find the VM kits are great. They are a little pricier than some other brands, but they have higher quality materials making building easier.

[rmccook]

2 hours ago, Thukydides said:

As Jacques said it is hard to recommend something without knowing your exact skill level. It all depends on how hard your first subject was and how successful you were with it.

 

If you are keen on a warship here are some suggestions that are smaller and easier than a full frigate:

1. Vanguard Models Sherbourne (small cutter)
2. Vanguard Models Alert (large cutter)
3. Vangard Models Flirt or Speedy (small brig)

Especially as a new entrant to the hobby I find the VM kits are great. They are a little pricier than some other brands, but they have higher quality materials making building easier.

 

The HMS Alert is such a pretty little boat. I really do like it. 

[Thukydides]

42 minutes ago, rmccook said:

The HMS Alert is such a pretty little boat. I really do like it. 

Alert is great. You can make something nice out of the box but also there is lots of scope for small improvements. It was my first build (see signature for the build log) and I was very pleased with it.

[BurgundyModels]

@rmccook this is the post I was referring to:

 

@JacquesCousteau that is also a very helpful thread!! Gives a great list of what ships to look at in different stages. 

 

[BurgundyModels]

48 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

Alert is great. You can make something nice out of the box but also there is lots of scope for small improvements. It was my first build (see signature for the build log) and I was very pleased with it.

Love your Alert build @Thukydides! Going to use that as a reference should I ever decide to build the Alert myself.