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BRiddoch

USS Constitution by BRiddoch - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76

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Glad to see the "patient" has recovered and been successfully repaired. I can only imagine how sick you must have felt when you dropped her :( . Coppering looks great

Best Jaxboat :)

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This really looks great. I'm working on the CW Morgan, and about ready to start planking. Your coppering job will be of great help on this. I'll be using it for reference. I just completed the Constitution by Revell after 44 years of working on it. I hope the Morgan doesn't take that long cause I won't be here that long.....I'll be following this. Thanks for the pictures.

John

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Bob:

That coppering looks very good. I think coppering the rudder now is a really good idea. Nice work all around.

 

Russ

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Hi Bob.  That's a very nice job on the coppering. She is one big hull and you

did a good job of keeping the run of the plates true. Well done. :)  

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Inspiring accomplishment. I am stuck and can't seem to get back to work. I have been building masts & spars. Finished everything but the upper main spars and got stuck.

 

By the way, I'm reminded of the people who thought that the moon landings were staged when I look at your shop. Nobody has a shop that clean and organized. It would take me a couple of days to clear my bench to that level. Must be the sign of an organized mind. Perhaps it's the secret to such outstanding work.

 

Looking forward to the next phase,

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Thanks all.  I am debating whether to paint the iron red stripe or leave it be.   Yes Chuck.  I will spend a few hours on the longboat.

 

            Bob R.

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I'm curious about the copper tape. I have seen other tape from cellophane tape to masking tape to duct tape dry up or get gooey over time. I'm talking decades of years. Does anybody know how the material used for "coppering" the bottom of model hold up? I'm asking because in about a year or so I hope to start my Conny model. It would be a shame if after all the hard work,patience, and devotion to detail were to unravel due to the ravages of time.

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JSGerson,

      I don't know the life span of the copper tape, but I can tell you this, it certainly sticks.  It is difficult to work with but I had no problems with it sticking.  I think the key is surface prep.  You also need to avoid touching it.  Once I had a few dozen plates applied, I used Armor-All Glass Cleaner to wipe it down with a lint free cloth.

 

           Bob R.

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Thanks all.  I am debating whether to paint the iron red stripe or leave it be.   Yes Chuck.  I will spend a few hours on the longboat.

 

            Bob R.

Well I might as well throw my two cents in. I guess it would depend on what time frame the model represents. As you well know, what it looks like today, is not what it looked like in the thirty's never mind what it looked like in 1812. Today the actual ship has a red stripe, in the past it didn't. If the rest of the model represents the ship as it looks today then by all means add the stripe. But that's just me.

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Bob

 

I left the red strip off. I was afraid with the copper tape I would not get a good seal and have some bleed through. Thats just the way I did it.

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That is my primary concern Geoff.  I am building as she sits today but don't want to ruin the copper tape job.  If I paint the stripe it will be with an airbrush.

 

             Bob R.

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Bob I have a question on your coppering the hull of your Connie.

I have almost complete belt one on the Starboard side and I notice that a few of my plates tend to curl up slightly. Even after I press them back down, some of those curl again.

Have you or any of the other modelers experience this and /or have a recommended solution?

 

Continue the pictures, they are awesome.

 

Gerry

 

Current build: Model Shipways USS Constitution

Past Builds: Mamoli Friesland,  Pan Art San Felipe

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I'm curious about the copper tape. I have seen other tape from cellophane tape to masking tape to duct tape dry up or get gooey over time. I'm talking decades of years. Does anybody know how the material used for "coppering" the bottom of model hold up? I'm asking because in about a year or so I hope to start my Conny model. It would be a shame if after all the hard work,patience, and devotion to detail were to unravel due to the ravages of time.

 

I was hoping some expert would comment on this subject.  Since no one has, allow me to venture that copper tape, unlike masking tape or so called duct tape- is intended to last forever.  It is used in making stained glass constructions.  You apply the tape to the edge of the glass, fit the pieces together and then solder over the joints.  Although when looking at the glass you see the silver solder, it is actually the adhesive of the tape that holds it together.

 

Duct tape is actually a very poor tape for most permanent repairs, and in fact using it in an A/C system is NOT recommended for the reasons you state.  There is an aluminum foil tape that is made for permanent duct that any reputable contractor will use.  You can spot it easily because it is very shiny and will cut you if handled improperly.  Masking tape is, of course, intended for temporary "masking."

 

I wish I knew enough about it to comment on the chemical or bond nature of the tapes, but I don't   Perhaps someone can take a less anecdotal approach and answer your question properly.

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Well I might as well throw my two cents in. I guess it would depend on what time frame the model represents. As you well know, what it looks like today, is not what it looked like in the thirty's never mind what it looked like in 1812. Today the actual ship has a red stripe, in the past it didn't. If the rest of the model represents the ship as it looks today then by all means add the stripe. But that's just me.

I asked my nephew this question about the copper tape. He works for a company in Japan (he speaks very fluent Japanese) that deals with adhesives and coatings, matching buyers with sellers of these various products. In other words they match the problem with a solution. He does all their technical translations into English as well as maintain their website. He is NOT a model builder however. He responded:

 

Good question. I've actually never come across copper tape before, but I'll look into it. It's something we don't cover specifically, and if I haven't come across it, that probably means we've never covered it. That said, I can tell you all kinds of things you never knew (or wanted to know) about copper tape.
 
You are correct in assuming that no tape lasts forever. Under specific conditions (mostly sealed conditions) it can last years, even decades. They use all sorts of tapes in construction now, but that is usually for temporarily holding things together until something more permanent is used (screws, etc.). But in a sealed environment, such as that inside an aluminum window frame, it will last as long as your house is standing. In fact, those tapes are often used for waterproofing and not as a structural element, so must be virtually immune to water and moisture.
 
But the big problem with adhesive tapes is two fold. The first is that most are pressure-sensitive, which means they don't even try to be permanent. The second is that it really depends on what you are taping (the adherent). I am assuming you will be working with wood, and very porous wood at that. This means that oxygen will reach the adhesive layer relatively easily, and quickly. This will oxidize the adhesive (not to mention the copper itself), and cause it to become gooey or dry out, depending on the adhesive agent. The difficulty is in finding a copper tape that uses the right adhesive agent for the adherent. Most stick to wood pretty well because wood is rough, but before applying the tape, make sure there is as little dust as possible. This will increase the life of the tape.
 
You could also put a transparent sealant over the tape to increase it's life. I assume you would add a sealant to the ship anyway, so you would want to do this after applying the tape (granted, the solvent in the sealant could dissolve the adhesive, just as the solvent in the adhesive could dissolve the paint it is on and cause delamination). In the Tiffany lamps, the solder is basically used to seal the tape so that oxygen does not reach the adhesive agent. Copper tape is used because copper is heat resistant and conductive and can thus withstand the soldering temperature and bond well with the solder itself. I doubt you could solder copper tape on a wood surface, though. Not that you would want to anyway for the application you are considering.
 
From my understanding of how adhesive tape works and knowing that you would not be working in a nice environmentally controlled area with pressure gradients to whisk away dust as you worked, I would find an alternative. Tape is what is usually called a PSA (pressure sensitive adhesive) and is thus always in a moist state. So I would use a true adhesive that dries completely and copper foil strips. I know that would be more difficult, but if you want it to last years, or decades, to me that seems like the better option.
 
I'll see if I can find anything on existing tapes in terms of durability, but I have a feeling that copper tape is not designed to be applied to wood or organic surfaces (paint, etc), so I would recommend against it.
 
I don't know if I have opened a can of worms, muddied the waters, and befuddled everyone. Let's see if he can come up with a more definitive answer.I would hate to have to glue individual strips with CA glue to get long lasting results. 

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I am afraid I cannot speak intelligently on the properties of the tape or adhesive.  Luckily I did not have the problem of "curl-up".  I used a small piece of 3/16" x 3/16" basswood as a burnisher to press the tape down over both the wood and the lap over onto other pieces of tape.  To date it still holds.  I did not use a sealer as I am told that it tends to dull the appearance of the copper.

 

             Bob R.

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Thanks Bob

I have tried to minimize handling and contacting the tape.  I use the paper backing to press it down now and that has seem to help some.

any other ideas would be appreciated.

 

Mercdaddy

 

Current Build:  Model Shipways USS Constitution

Past Builds"  Mamoli's Friesland ,  Mantua's San Felipe

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Hi Bob..... it's been awhile since I've looked at your progress, things are looking awesome, despite the unfortunate mishap. You did some great work on the head rails and seats of rest!, plus the rest of this outstanding build. The Connie is such a great looking ship , everyone should have one! :P. I envy your stays in Japan ( not the flight), I spent a couple years there  and just loved the country and its people.

Excellent job on the plating too Bob !

Frank

 

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That copper tape (if it is what I'm thinking of) was designed to allow you to run electrical wiring up walls (for lamps and whatnot) without having to make holes in them, becoming virtually unnoticeable after being painted. I would think that a product like that would have to have a fairly good, long lasting adhesive in order to live up to electrical and fire code requirements. I don't think that in the long run, it should pose much of a problem on the hull of a model ship

 

Andy

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