gjdale Posted February 24, 2015 Share #361 Posted February 24, 2015 Simply ingenious Ian! Fantastic tutorial too. Thanks for posting so much detail about how you approached this task - it's both informative and instructive. ianmajor and Piet 2 Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponto Posted February 24, 2015 Share #362 Posted February 24, 2015 Absolutely mind boggled and take aback with the attention to detail-----please excuse my ignorance, but will the lid completely obscure your efforts? JP Quote Built & De-Commissioned: HMS Endeavour (Corel), HMS Unicorn (Corel), Abandoned: HMS Bounty (AL) Completed : Wappen Von Hamburg (Corel), Le Renommee (Euromodel)... on hold Current WIP: Berlin by Corel On Shelf: HMS Bounty (Billings), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB40 Posted February 25, 2015 Share #363 Posted February 25, 2015 Ian, Absolutely amazing work. Regards, John Quote John Current Build: USF Confederacy 1778 by JohnB40 - Model Shipways - 1:64 scale HMS Unicorn Corel 1:75 HULKED Completed Builds: Golden Hind Scientific Models -- Swift 1:50 Artesania Latina -- Le Hussard 1:50 Artesania Latina -- Halifax 1:35 Robbe -- Armed Launch 1803 1:17 Panart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted February 25, 2015 Share #364 Posted February 25, 2015 Fantastic metal work Ian and a great tutorial. Cheers, Quote Piet, The Flying Dutchman. "Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends." (old Chinese proverb) Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942 VOC Ship Surabaya Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000 Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi." Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp, Buginese fishing Prauw. Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser. Completed Builds: Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner - Friendship Sloop Gwenfra Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Ensign Posted February 25, 2015 Share #365 Posted February 25, 2015 Oh that heart sinking moment when something you have been working on for ages pings off into the ether never to be seen again - except when you have re made the part, when it suddenly re-appears. As someone who can only gaze with amazement on your metal working dexterity Ian, I think I would go for the soft option of having the cover on one with the workings displayed on the other, but then as someone who can only dream of producing such a great little item, I would wouldn't I B.E. mtaylor 1 Quote Current Build: Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-1:64-scale HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted February 26, 2015 Share #366 Posted February 26, 2015 Really incredible work Ian. Thank you for the tutorial. Even more impressive when considering how small these parts are! I should have paid more attention in math class Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZyXuz Posted February 26, 2015 Share #367 Posted February 26, 2015 Breathtaking Ian!! I must say the details of the chain is simply awesome! and surprise... I'm BACK!!! lol I was busying with my new job.. and recently, Chinese New Year.. I got my new job last September, but the bad side is that it's in Singapore.. so, I can't continue with my Unicorn anymore. She's now resting in shelf. My plan is to work here for like 4-5 years for a better savings, and then only return to Malaysia. Hope everything goes smooth. Seeing your works really 'turn me on' back on this hobby, haha.. now i'm considering making a smaller model here like a boat or sloop which use only minimum tools and take up lesser space. It's time to visit cornwallmodelboat again!!! Anyway, just a pic of my unicorn before I put her in shelf. I did a quick + full time work on her before i got to Singapore. Hope you don't mind You can see that hull started cracking... Mike, I also just learned that you started your Pegasus, nice work so far! The hull looks well after sanding IgorSky, ianmajor, Landlubber Mike and 2 others 5 Quote Visit My Blog! http://malaysiamodelship.blogspot.com/ Previous Build: HMS Race Horse (Sergal) Current Build: HMS Unicorn (Corel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share #368 Posted February 28, 2015 Hi folks, Thank you for your words of encouragement and likes. All of you who have commented are modelers that I look up to on this forum. Nenad, I hope I don't make you too breathless - I don't want you to stop breathing! Grant, I am glad you enjoyed my ramblings - I hope you were not sent off to sleep by them. JP, the lids are removable so that the detail can be seen. However I am wondering how practical it will be to remove/replace the lids when the rigging is in place. Well in my old model railway club I had the reputation of making details like working locomotive inside valve gear that was impossible to see once the boiler is fitted - so I am just continuing with my old lunacy! John, thanks for looking in. I am looking forward to more developments on your Unicorn. Piet, my metal work is put in the shade by that on your 0 19. BE, as you say searching for "pinged" items always results in finding previously lost items. In this case it was bits for the quarter deck rail that I made some time ago. I love your replacement figures on your Pegasus. Before you did them the originals looked good but the new ones are a huge improvement. Mike, I am expecting that you will improve on my chain pump efforts. Something to look forward to. ZyXuz, good to hear from you again. Your Unicorn has come on in leaps and bounds. Not sure why the hull has started cracking. Perhaps someone with more experience then me could offer a view. I am sure you will sort it. Piet and ZyXuz 2 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share #369 Posted February 28, 2015 Onwards with the chain pumps. I made some tubes for the chains to disappear in to. This was a simple turning and end drilling job. The tubes are made from walnut dowling turned down to 4mm outside diameter with a 2mm hole bored through the centre. The top edges were rounded and the bore opened out slightly at the mouth to give a tappered entrance. The tubes were parted off 9mm long. I also produced the bungs to go in to the front of the cisterns. These were again turned up from walnut dowling. I first turned the dowling down to 3mm diameter, then turned the end to 2mm for a length of 1mm. I then parted it off at 1.5mm long. Although only 2 are needed due to my unfailing ability to lose things I made four of them. This also allowed me to choose the better ones to fit. They need 2 off 0.4mm holes drilled in the ends to take a wire staple to represent the handle. To hold the bungs whilst doing this I gripped them in a pin vice. The photo shows the tubes and the first bung in the pin vice. The pin vice was then clamped vertically in the vice on the milling machine to drill the two holes. Short lengths of 0.3mm brass wire were bent up, blackened then glued in to the bungs. The next photo shows the best two. The rim of the bungs crumbled slightly - the walnut I have is not ideal for this work. The sisterns have a pair of 4mm holes drilled in their bottoms to take the tubes plus one 2mm hole in the leading side to take a bung. This was nerve wracking work - it was like drilling egg shells. Piet, dafi, JohnB40 and 1 other 4 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share #370 Posted February 28, 2015 I glued my remaining sprocket wheel in to the starboard cistern. To secure the chain I (permanently) hooked lengths of wire in to the end links. I also drilled two 4mm holes in the cluster base for the inboard pipes to fit. The outboard pipes will simply sit on the deck surface. The wires were then fed down in to the tubes drawing the ends of the chain with them. To secure the wires I turned up two 2mm diameter bungs from bamboo, then drilled 0.5mm holes through their centres. These were threaded on to the wire from the bottom then pushed in to the bottom of the tubes. The bungs were glued to the tubes leaving the wire free for now. The chain could then be adjusted and pulled taught by the wires then the wires secured by a drop of superglue. The wires could then be trimmed off. This ensures the chain is secure at both ends. The bungs also line the chains up centrally within the tubes. The photo shows this almost completed. The left hand wire is yet to be trimmed. Next was a dry run in the waist area of the ship. The cisterns cleared all the surrounding items such as cannon rigging. Unfortunately I have drilled the two holes in the cluster base too close together. This results in the two cisterns being jammed together. Also the crank handles would be too far away from the uprights to which they should be attached. I will have to ease the two holes outwards by 1mm. When I have rigged out the second pump I will make some rodings in the same way as the cannon caps. I keep looking at the chain and thinking I could have made the links finer. I have been giving more thought to the second mechanism and doing some reading on the subject. One document that I consulted was a thesis by Thomas James Oertling called "The History and Development of Ships' Bilge Pumps, 1500-1840" which can be found here . Thomas Oertling has developed this further and published it in a book "Ships' Bilge Pumps - A History of Their Development, 1500 - 1900" ISBN 978-0-89096-722-5. In his thesis he describes the Burr Pump in Chapter IV page 24, the Common (Elm Tree) Pump Chapter V page 32 and the Chain Pump Chapter VI page 73. On page 77 he quotes Blankley (1750) who describes a cylinder of wood with "Y" shaped sprockets set in its periphery. The chain being made of circular, oval or "S" shaped links. At this time the saucers were made of metal. Earlier they were made of wood and referred to as burrs. On page 78 he quotes the London Magazine (1768) which refers to the new improved Cole/Bentinck design that has a spoked sprocket wheel with "cycle" type chain. This suggests that the spoked sprocket type was introduced during the lifetime of Unicorn and that the original pumps would have been of the old type. Did Unicorn ever have the new type of pump? Who knows. Since Unicorn and Lyme could be regarded as experimental ships then perhaps it is feasible that towards its end Unicorn carried one of each type. So.....I think I will attempt to make one of the old type mechanisms. One fly in the ointment - most of the info I have seen suggests the old type mechanism simply emptied directly on to the deck, then the water drained across the deck and out of the scuppers.However if I model one pump with and one without a cistern it is going to look odd. Needs more thought. Still that will have to wait - a few pleasant distractions are coming up in the next few weeks - so no modeling and I will have little Web access which will stop my ramblings for now. jwvolz, ZyXuz, JohnB40 and 7 others 10 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted March 1, 2015 Share #371 Posted March 1, 2015 That looks rather splendid Ian, just lovely work! Looks like you think like me, if I make a detail it better works You might be right in it looking odd having two pumps from different time periods. However, the later one could be there for operational trial reasons. Cheers, Quote Piet, The Flying Dutchman. "Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends." (old Chinese proverb) Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942 VOC Ship Surabaya Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000 Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi." Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp, Buginese fishing Prauw. Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser. Completed Builds: Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner - Friendship Sloop Gwenfra Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomy Posted March 27, 2015 Share #372 Posted March 27, 2015 Hi Ian, I am new to model ship building having just finished BLUENOSE 2, I have now started on Corels UNICORN. The first problem was the slots in the bulkheads were to small to fit the keel, this has been fixed but when they are fitted to the keel none of them are flush with the top of the keel they all sit at different levels. Did you have this problem? if so what is the remedy, file them all flush? I would be gratefull for any advise you can give. Your UNICON is looking superb. Regards, Pomy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share #373 Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Pomy, Yes I had problems in this area as well. I am away from my normal web access for the next few days. I will give a better response then - if that is OK. Edited March 29, 2015 by ianmajor Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomy Posted March 30, 2015 Share #374 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi, Ian and spyglass, thank you for your reply, I look forward to your better response Ian. As to starting a log my computer skills are not too good!!!! I am 78 years old in September, a retired fitter/ turner. I think I will have to get one of my grandsons to help me. Regards to you both, Pomy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomy Posted March 30, 2015 Share #375 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi, Ian and Spyglass, thank you for your reply. I look forward to your reply Ian, as regards starting a log I think it good be a good idea, my computer skills are not the best!!! I am a retired FITTER/TUNER, aged 77, so I will have to get one of my grandsons to help me with the log. Regards, Pomy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted April 5, 2015 Author Share #376 Posted April 5, 2015 Well I am back in the fold having just had a very pleasant 5 week tour of New Zealand, with time in Australia and Hong Kong. I am a great fan of all things NZ and also of all things Aus (with the exception of Rupert Murdoch) so it was especially nice to find everyone so friendly in such beautiful environments. I even forgive them for beating our rugby team (couldn't care less about cricket). To prove I was there.... In Sydney we saw plenty of cruise liners including this one in a fetching shade of grey.... ....nearby was this vessel which presumably allows its passengers to access the golden beaches...... .....and the submarines have some interesting crew members....... ...the latter is outside of the Aus National Maritime museum which sadly I did not have time to visit. In NZ we travelled from the north island to the south island in this ship, which carries cars, lorries and rail wagons... .....the crossing was rather choppy due to the attentions of cyclone PAM. Not so on the tranquil waters of the lake at Queenstown where the TSS Earnslaw serenely puffed back and forth......... ...but in Hong Kong the waterways are very busy with the Star ferries hooting at each other to get out of the way...... ..... bliss. So....once my brain can work out what day of the week it is and what time, I will start on the second pump mechanism. BTW...I am not ignoring Pomy's question, I am having a PM exchange with him. gjdale, Landlubber Mike, JohnB40 and 3 others 6 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted April 8, 2015 Share #377 Posted April 8, 2015 Great pictures Ian - looks like a really fun trip. Welcome back! Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share #378 Posted April 13, 2015 Thanks Mike and thanks guys for the likes. Well I have made some progress on the second chain pump mechanism. I am going with the early type of mechanism. I was interested in the references quoted by Oertling. One was an entry in the Setember 1768 London Magazine (or Gentleman's Monthly Intelligencer). Back copies of this news sheet are held in the Library of the University of Michigan. They have been digitised and the 1768 set can be found here Part of it is the "Monthly Chronologer" (basically a diary). In the September Chronologer (p499) sandwiched between lists of murders, robberies etc and the strange case of a sulphurous fireball in Devon is a brief description of the comparitive tests held between "Mr Cole's New Pump" and the old type pump on HMS Seaford. It includes some of the results. It only mentions William Cole not Captain John Bendinck who is credited as the inventor of the new type of chain pump. Cole would have been the man who realised the physical entity. I wandered off in to other sections of the London Magazine and found for example on page 328 reference to the discovery of a cluster of islands in the Pacific by the crew of HMS Dolphin. They named the islands King George Islands.Apparently the ship's crew found themselves pelted with stones by the locals so eventually the crew responded with cannon loaded with grapeshot. No contest from that point - but not a good way to make friends. The Magazine also includes articles about hostile French activity in Corsica. It is a great source (British view) of information on the various battles, developments, personalities etc on sea and land. The navy tests of the "cycle chain" type pump occurred in the last few years of Unicorn's existence so perhaps for time it carried both types like Seaford. For the mechanism construction I started with the forks that go around the sprocket wheel. These I made from 20 x 4mm blanks of 0.25mm brass sheet. The blanks were tacked together in a stack and the stack attached to a sacrificial piece of scrap for clamping purposes. The basic shape was milled out. I couldn't find any documents with dimensions for this type of mechanism so guesswork was the order of the day. I opted to use the same size "saucers" in the chain as my first pump. This set the forks at slightly over 2mm wide with a 1.6mm hole drilled and milled in the centre. The forks are 2.5mm long and the tang is is 0.5mm wide and approx 4mm long. The final shape was produced with a file and the individual forks sawn off then blackened. 8off are need but I produced enough for a few spares. The centre of the sprocket is a cylinder of wood. The diameter of this was set by the distance between the centres of the tubes in the cistern (9mm). The distance between the centres of the forks had to match the tubes so I turned down some walnut dowel to 7mm diameter. I drilled the centre 1mm diameter for the shaft and drilled 8 evenly spaced holes around the cylinder 1.5mm from the edge then parted off at 3mm. The forks were superglued in to the cylinder along with the shaft to complete the sprocket. From the finished item the proportional size of the forks to that of the central cylinder looks a little large but I am stuck with using some common components with the other pump. I tried the sprocket in the second systern for size. Actually the lower forks are slightly foul of the top of the tubes, but since it is not going to work I can live with that! JohnB40, gjdale, Piet and 2 others 5 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted April 13, 2015 Author Share #379 Posted April 13, 2015 Next was the chain. I have a length of chain left over from that which I "knitted" for the rudder. This looked OK for the job. I cut some slotted discs in the same way as for the first pump. With a little sanding of the slots the discs slipped on to a chain link nicely. A touch of solder on the end of the slot kept them in place. The next photo is a comparison of the "old" style chain (upper) and the "new" style chain. The big question was/is - how many saucers and at what spacing should there be. I could find no clarification in Oertling or anywhere else for that matter. The entry in the London Magazine states that with the new pump 2 men lifted a ton of water in 55 seconds, however two men could not move the old type pump. This indicates to me that there was more friction suggesting the old pump had more valves (saucers) than the new. I was debating whether to have the saucers spaced to engage with every fork but decided to set the spacing at every other fork (OK this means that on a working pump every other fork would never get used). I did a dry run assembly to see how the whole thing looked and compared it with the first pump. Until I permanently fix the mechanism I could still add more saucers. I am inclined against this because both chains look a bit heavy to me and extra saucers would exacerbate this. If I decide that this is OK I will fit the mechanisms permanently and move on to some elm tree pumps. Piet, muratx, dafi and 4 others 7 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjdale Posted April 13, 2015 Share #380 Posted April 13, 2015 Great work Ian. I am constantly amazed and impressed by your engineering ingenuity, and your ability to work out the "how to" as well as the "what". Your log is always an education that I thoroughly enjoy. Thanks for sharing so much of your thinking and processes. ianmajor, Piet and Landlubber Mike 3 Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB40 Posted April 13, 2015 Share #381 Posted April 13, 2015 Wonderful work Ian. I look at your photos,then at my Unicorn and realize how tiny the scale is.......My mind is blown......Must have a nap to recover John Landlubber Mike, ianmajor and ZyXuz 3 Quote John Current Build: USF Confederacy 1778 by JohnB40 - Model Shipways - 1:64 scale HMS Unicorn Corel 1:75 HULKED Completed Builds: Golden Hind Scientific Models -- Swift 1:50 Artesania Latina -- Le Hussard 1:50 Artesania Latina -- Halifax 1:35 Robbe -- Armed Launch 1803 1:17 Panart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share #382 Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) John and Grant, thanks for your kind words - I fear you see a better standard of workmanship than I see. I keep looking and thinking that I should have done better. Thanks guys for the likes. A quick update. I have been consulting the on line copy of Thomas Oertling's Thesis for my info. This is dated 1984. His book on the subject of ships' pumps was published in 1996. Obviously he had done much more research for the book. I had a look at a preview of his book which included a part of the chain pump section. In this he states the valves/saucers were about 50cm apart on the old type pump chains. This scales down to 6.7mm in 1:75. I measured mine - the pitch of my valves is 7.5 which is fairly close. I will leave them as constructed. Interestingly in his thesis there is a diagram of a wooden sprocket wheel on page 85 which has 8 forks. I have seen other similar diagrams which are probably based on a contemporary Dutch diagram of the pump mechanism of an early 18th century British 50 gun ship. However in his book (page 65) he has a diagram of his reconstruction from fragments of the chain pump on the Santa Antonio which has only 4 forks on the drum. Ho hum - yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice! Either way I perhaps should have consulted a copy of the book before starting the pumps rather than after the event. Edited April 14, 2015 by ianmajor Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuciship Posted April 14, 2015 Share #383 Posted April 14, 2015 it's very nice, good job. ianmajor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted April 14, 2015 Share #384 Posted April 14, 2015 Your chain pump drives look very good Ian Nils ianmajor 1 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgbot Posted April 14, 2015 Share #385 Posted April 14, 2015 Your chain is flawless Ian. David B Quote Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7446-uss-maine-by-dgbot-hmv-card/#entry220003 Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6063-blockade-runner-teazer-by-dgbot-card-stock/#entry175967 Completed The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6920-the-monitor-lehigh-by-dgbot-card-model/#entry203680 Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/10-kit-build-logs-in-progress/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share #386 Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) David, Nils and tuciship, thanks for looking in and your comments. (Hopefully I have put this in the correct log this time - what a plonker!) Now to start on the elm tree pumps. Information came from several sources. The dimensions I got from Lavery. I produced a scale diagram. On the diagram I included a 5ft 8in sailor to make sure the size was sensible. The first items made were 1mm wide rings cut from 4mm diameter brass tube. I produced these first so that I could use them as gauges when turning down the wooden "pipes". The pipes were produced from walnut dowel. The end was turned down so that one of the rings was a good interference fit. With the ring in place I end drilled the dowel - the ring stopped the wood from splitting whilst drilling. The dowel was transferred (still in the chuck) to the dividing head mounted horizontally in the mill to make the main part of the tube an octagonal shape. Then back to the lathe to turn the bottom to 2mm diameter. A short length of bamboo was end drilled 0.5mm then turned down to 1mm outside diameter. This was set in to a hole in main pipe as the outlet. Edited May 1, 2015 by ianmajor Landlubber Mike, Piet, ZyXuz and 3 others 6 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianmajor Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share #387 Posted May 1, 2015 Three lengths of 1mm thick N/S were tacked together and then drilled and milled to make the handle brackets. A slot was sawn in the end of each piece to take a handle. The best two brackets were then each soldered to a ring. Three pieces of 0.5mm N/S were tacked together and drilled/milled to make the handles. The next photo shows the various stages. At the top are the blanks produced by milling. The middle shows the blanks filed to final shape. The bottom is an assembled pump. A final photo shows the pump in my agriculturals for scale. The handle wiggles up and down! The metalwork is still to be blackened, then after some final adjustments the whole pump cluster will be ready for permanent installation in the waist area. Piet, RGL, mtaylor and 9 others 12 Quote Ian M. Current build: HMS Unicorn (1748) - Corel Kit Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjdale Posted May 1, 2015 Share #388 Posted May 1, 2015 A great display of both your engineering (drawing/design) and your machining skills Ian. That's a terrific result! Piet and ianmajor 2 Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZyXuz Posted May 2, 2015 Share #389 Posted May 2, 2015 Fantastic Ian! It can't go any better I really love your drawing, it's just like the one for a real ship ianmajor and Piet 2 Quote Visit My Blog! http://malaysiamodelship.blogspot.com/ Previous Build: HMS Race Horse (Sergal) Current Build: HMS Unicorn (Corel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piet Posted May 2, 2015 Share #390 Posted May 2, 2015 Fantastic work Ian, looks very realistic! Cheers, ianmajor 1 Quote Piet, The Flying Dutchman. "Your greatest asset is not the quantity of your friends , rather the quality of your friends." (old Chinese proverb) Current Builds: Hr. Ms. Java 1925-1942 VOC Ship Surabaya Planned Builds: Young America Diorama - scale 1:3000 Future Builds: KPM ship "MS Musi." Zuiderzee Botter - scale 1:25. VOC Jacht in a 6" lamp, Buginese fishing Prauw. Hr. Ms. Java - Royal Navy Netherlands Cruiser. Completed Builds: Hr. Ms. O16 Submarine Hr. Ms. O19 - Submarine Royal Navy Netherlands Ship Yard Diorama with Topsail schooner - Friendship Sloop Gwenfra Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack Golden Hind - Cutte Sark (both not in this forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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