AON Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share #931 Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Here we are with summer a happy memory and fall deep in my bones (damp and getting colder). A good summer for fishing, relaxing, and just basically enjoying the outdoors and the sun. Now I find myself back down in the playroom for a few hours in the early afternoon with all my toys. Starting remaking and attaching my forward cant frames earlier this week, so I'll be crawling along on this for a couple weeks. Also stumbled upon some nice bamboo skewers to use as treenails as the others I started making from old bamboo stakes are not so good I also cut out two blank castello blocks for my figurehead carving. I've yet to transpose the sketch widths to the front and rear but I will have enough to keep me from getting bored Edited October 17, 2019 by AON resized photos paulsutcliffe, Landrotten Highlander, Jorge Diaz O and 8 others 11 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 18, 2019 Share #932 Posted October 18, 2019 Good , you are back. I nearly started missing you 'round here. What size/width do you make your treenails? Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share #933 Posted October 18, 2019 Thank you Carl. It feels nice to be almost missed... but I always come back. The contract reads the frames were bolted to the deadwood with 1-1/2 inch (3.8 cm) diameter bolts. This would be 0.023 inch (0.58 mm or less than 1/32") at 1:64 scale. I need to draw down to the hole size identified as number 23. These seem quite small and as I am looking for additional strength in the glued joint to the keel I may make them a wee bit larger diameter, especially since there is no #23 on the draw plate. There are Nos. 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 31, 32, 33, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 45, 47, etc. I might try .047 (1.193 mm or 3/64") or 3" dia. to scale. Still thinking about it. Alan druxey, mtaylor, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted October 18, 2019 Share #934 Posted October 18, 2019 Welcome back, Alan! mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share #935 Posted October 20, 2019 (edited) For those interested in the Bellerophon I have been collecting information for years and have compiled the first half (attached PDF) - HMS Bellerophon, Part 1: A Service History for your enjoyment The second half (Part 2) will be transcriptions of newspaper postings and letters from the 1700's and 1800's I have collected 948 newspaper articles, many are duplicate events in different publications. It will be some time to manage these... but then so will my build! HMS Bellerophon - Part 1 - A Service History.pdf Edited October 21, 2019 by AON corrected some typos in the attached PDF mtaylor, allanyed, druxey and 9 others 12 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted October 20, 2019 Share #936 Posted October 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, AON said: I have been collecting information for years... Looks like you put the information to good use. I had a quick look at the Service History and think I will make a cup of coffee and read it properly. Nice touch. Thanks. Bruce Canute, AON, cog and 1 other 4 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted October 20, 2019 Share #937 Posted October 20, 2019 Quite the gallant ship. Thanks for organizing the history. 👍 mtaylor, cog and AON 3 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share #938 Posted October 20, 2019 Thank you for the favourable comments and likes. As with all works I thought I "had it" but upon yet another review (surely my tenth or more) I discovered some typos and minor corrections. These have been dealt with and the document switched out. So if you see this before you start your review please grab the newer copy above. (and let me know what you think, comments/corrections, etc. by PM if you please) mtaylor, bruce d, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Hunt Posted October 20, 2019 Share #939 Posted October 20, 2019 Wonderful model Alan. I'm enjoying reading David Cordingly's book "The Billy Ruffian" right now (about halfway through) so it adds an extra dimension to the whole thing. cog, AON, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted October 21, 2019 Share #940 Posted October 21, 2019 Thanks for the download, Alan. I'm looking forward to reading it as I'm a "fan" of the Billy Ruffian. AON, Canute and cog 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 22, 2019 Author Share #941 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Down in the shop this afternoon for about 3 hours readying three more frames as I struggle with frame T2 on the starboard side. The port side went in quite nicely but it's mate was giving me grief for the last few days. I always need to adjust the taper on the foot to pull the top in or out a wee bit but this one just refused to align. In frustration I put it down on top of the template once more, ready to walk away and then I spotted it. The lowest or first futtock had shifted up and inwards during glue up. It would never align to the adjacent forward frame properly. I took it apart, cleaned it up and now the glued joint is drying once again. Edited October 24, 2019 by AON Canute, mtaylor and paulsutcliffe 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted October 23, 2019 Share #942 Posted October 23, 2019 All hail, isopropanol! AON, cog, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share #943 Posted October 23, 2019 And the fellow that introduced me to it. mtaylor, Canute and gjdale 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share #944 Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Had an accident today. My rolling stool ran away as I was going to sit at the scroll saw. Sprained my wrist and my bottom side. Both are quite sore but nothing broken. Difficult to make and pick up my evening tea. Might need to take a few days to recover. Edited October 23, 2019 by AON cog, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted October 24, 2019 Share #945 Posted October 24, 2019 I'm liking that as "acknowledgement" only. I'm glad that it wasn't worse and I hope you have a speedy recovery. Edwardkenway, davyboy, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 24, 2019 Share #946 Posted October 24, 2019 Always nasty those self moving chairs. You never know when they take off. Glad it's mainly your pride which has been hurt. mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted October 24, 2019 Share #947 Posted October 24, 2019 Hope your wrist recovers quickly. We do need serviceable mitts to do what we do. mtaylor, cog and AON 3 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJSoane Posted October 24, 2019 Share #948 Posted October 24, 2019 Alan, I just read your account of the Bellerophon. A fascinating read! Kudos to you for accomplishing this great piece of research! Mark AON, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Current build: HMS Bellona 74, ca. 1760, 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/196-hms-bellona-by-sjsoane-scale-164-1760-as-designed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share #949 Posted October 24, 2019 It has been over 24 hours and my wrist and hand are much better but not 100% as yet, possibly one more days rest is called for. However my butt reminds me of the fall every time I take a seat. Thank you Mark and all others for thinking so much of my favourite ship to have downloaded and reviewed my Part 1. The attached PDF is a preview of Part 2. It has a lot more to go so don't expect to see the finished product any time soon. Take care. Alan HMS Bellerophon - Part 2 - Newspaper Articles and Letters - 24 Oct 2019.pdf cog, davyboy, bruce d and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted October 24, 2019 Share #950 Posted October 24, 2019 Alan, nice outline of your "Billy Ruffian" newspaper items. AON, mtaylor and cog 3 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share #951 Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Canute I am glad you appreciate the old reports. They are definitely written on behalf of the victors. My favourite newspaper post to date is the announcement of the auction of the prize of a ship and the goods on board. It reminds me of the prize my grandfather lost out on in WWI. We had found a record of it. I was surprised they were still doing that then... at such a late date. I believe the practice of selling prizes and distributing the money is not done any more. As a kid I thought this was only done by pirates. I never found history as exciting in school. I suppose it is like a fine wine... gets better with ageing. It is likely why the younger generation repeat the mistakes of the past... they are not old enough to appreciate the lessons offered with the temperment if time. Am I old? Edited October 25, 2019 by AON mtaylor, davyboy, Edwardkenway and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted October 25, 2019 Share #952 Posted October 25, 2019 Ah..history.. part of it's aging, but the other part is when we look into something that interests us like a model that we're building. Nah, none of us are old,Alan. We just have a different amount of years experience. I haven't read PT. 1 yet... I'm planning to take some time this weekend to kick back with it. AON, Canute, cog and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share #953 Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) It is annoying how we learn to look at things more critically as we get comfortable.... I mean experienced. Yesterday I popped off one set of forward cant frames to tilt the tops inboard a tiny smidgen (that is a technical term). These are back on today. Today I popped off three of the most forward cant frames on the starboard size to do the same. Tomorrow I will get the mates on the port side off. It is looking so much better with these minor adjustments. I have 2-1/2 sets are R frames to go before I start the installation of the P station cant frames. These have very small angles to them but I find the shaping of the timbers to take the chocks does not get easier. For a moment I was going to forego the bevel on these in the R and P station frames because the angle didn't seem like much, but I find it does still make a difference... so we carry on. Hope to be finished the cant frames next week as I can only manage to install one set a day and can make three sets ahead with the table space available as I prefer not to stack them. It's an CDO (or OCD) thing. Now I've just realized I have a problem with the method of clamping my keel to the work table Once I get all my square frames installed I won't have access to the screw heads to lift the model out. I need to loosen the screws to remove one side somehow. It was suggested I replace the screws with dowel pins so I can pry it up to remove it. I thought I might just replace the screws with bolts through from below and nuts on top. Seems simpler. Anyone have a better suggestion? And I need to make final adjustments to my presentation for this Sunday afternoon at the local club meeting (Model Shipwrights of Niagara) on Digitally Photographing Scale Models If interested, you will be able to download a PDF of the presentation from our website later next week. You can find a link to the website in the signature line below... go to the Blog page. And finally... yes, my derriere is all better now. There was some wicked deep bruising. They should invent a softer concrete for workshop flooring. Edited November 5, 2019 by AON Landrotten Highlander, mtaylor, bruce d and 9 others 12 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted November 5, 2019 Share #954 Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) I'm glad you can justify refitting the cant frames for tilting, even for a smidgen, for I can't see why something which seems to be perfect should be imperfect ... at least I couldn't spot it I would suggest thicker padding of your pant's seat. Your own suggestion would make the chance of falling bigger and might cause different injuries altogether, which in turn would keep you from your build, and would greatly disappoint yourself, not to mention us Edited November 5, 2019 by cog Canute, AON and mtaylor 3 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted November 5, 2019 Share #955 Posted November 5, 2019 Sorry to read of your tumble, Alan (I'm just catching up on your previous posts). Hope all is well now. If you can manage a pair of cant frames in a day, that's pretty good progress. For fixation to the building board, I use captive nuts in the keel/rising wood and bolts from below. These eventually end up securing the model to the pedestals on the display board. SJSoane, Tony Hunt, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Hunt Posted November 5, 2019 Share #956 Posted November 5, 2019 I agree with Druxey, captive nuts are the way to go. Useful for a whole range of reasons later on. mtaylor, AON, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJSoane Posted November 5, 2019 Share #957 Posted November 5, 2019 Looking nice, Alan! I agree, captive nuts work well if you can get to the bolt heads (or nuts on threaded rod) from below. I also keep a small wrench of the right size next to my model, so if we suddenly have to leave the house in an emergency I can get the cat, wife and ship model all out together in short order! Hate to lose a ship model for want of a wrench to release it...🙂 Mark mtaylor, Canute and Tony Hunt 3 Quote Current build: HMS Bellona 74, ca. 1760, 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/196-hms-bellona-by-sjsoane-scale-164-1760-as-designed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share #958 Posted November 5, 2019 Cog I suppose I can staple my knee pads to my butt.🤕 Mark First the cat?🤐 Druxey I best haul out volume 1 of TFFM again.🤔 Thanks all😆 cog, Canute, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowmer Posted November 6, 2019 Share #959 Posted November 6, 2019 59 minutes ago, AON said: Cog Mark First the cat?🤐 LOL, I was thinking the same thing......was that in a particular order? as afar as the mounting suggestion, I’ll throw my hat into the same ring on captive bolts with threaded rod for mounting. Looking nice Alan. cheers Canute, mtaylor and cog 3 Quote Able bodied seaman, subject to the requirements of the service. "I may very well sink, but I'm damned if I'll Strike!" JPJ My Pacific Northwest Discovery Series: On the slipways in the lumberyard Union, 1792 - 1:48 scale - POF Scratch build 18th Century Longboat - circa 1790 as used in the PNW fur trade - FINISHED Future Builds (Wish List) Columbia Redidiva, 1787 HM Armed Tender Chatham, 1788 HMS Discovery, 1789 Captain Vancouver Santiago, 1775 - Spanish Frigate of Explorer Bruno de Hezeta Lady Washington, 1787 - Original Sloop Rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share #960 Posted November 8, 2019 I use a square to set the outside edge of my frame to the layout on the table top and also I mark the height on the frame onto the square with a piece of painters tape. Can't forget to check that the top or head of the frame aligns with the layout. All the R, T and W frames needed the heels sanded to match the inboard to outboard varying thickness change in the stem keel/apron/deadwood assembly as it is thicker inboard (top) than outboard (bottom). Now at stations P everything is practically flat which is making it a bit easier. I installed the last R frame to the starboard side late yesterday, and worked on frames P4, P3 and P2 yesterday and today. Frames P4 and P3 will be ready to install tomorrow but I will actually only get the two halves of P4 installed tomorrow. P2 will be ready Monday. We have our local club meeting Sunday so the ship won't get anything done on it that day. I am debating if I should take a chance and bring it to the meeting or not. Last time I did some of the frames were knocked off. Hmmmm... what to do? JpR62, cog, Canute and 9 others 12 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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