HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...

[dafi]

Then came the window panes. PVC film and matt transparent sellotape on the back ...

 

 

... gives exactly the right opacity against inside view while ...

 

 

... the outside reflects well, to be seen on both pictures on the right side window.

 

 

And then the special windows for the four old Trafalgar guns on the middle deck.

 

 

 

 

The guns sit almost on the bottom edge of the port, an indication that the windows sat higher than the former gun ports. The interior view is also funny 🙂

 

 

Then one of the 6 signal guns for saluting.

 

 

But I still have to do some work on both of them, the half ring above the old gun and the middle window bars on the signal guns are too narrow.

 

The "chasing" windows at the stern are also in now, ...

 

 

 

... and even better with paint.

 

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Come to the dark side. You want it too! Do you feel the force getting stronger?

 

The more you look at the windows, the more you notice how unevenly the sizes are distributed. At the beginning, I assumed a standard size - limited by the profile bar at the top and bottom - but the variety has become greater and greater.

 

 

Nice to see here in the midship area. The two historic Trafalgar guns have distinctly different widths. The lower deck windows are the largest and reasonably uniform, in the middle deck I have been able to reduce it to 3 sizes but with 3 types of window frames, in the upper deck there are again 3 sizes with 2 types of frames and below the hut deck another size, these are the smallest windows. I have made an excel sheet to help me get through it ...

 

 

... and had the sizes printed on the window inserts and the corresponding pane holders 🙂

 

 

 

Type height approx. 2 papillary strips*** 😉

 

XXXDAn

*** Also called dpi: dafi papillary strip index

[dafi]

Somehow I still have some sanding to do and somehow I'm afraid that I'll get a lot of dirt behind the windows ...

 

That's why I temporarily put in the decks ...

 

 

... and opened all the window ports so that the inserts fit well.

 

The front 2 ports are also being closed right now, because ...

 

 

... around 1922 they were also closed 🙂

 

 

A wonderful picture*** from 1922! You can see how the Victory was still lying on the water shortly before :-0

The bolts in the holes and especially the detail I'm looking forward to building the most: the support of the chimney pipe!

The port/window at the very front was still open for many years, but judging by the sequence of photographs it was planked over sometime between 1900 and 1920.

 

Best regards, DAniel

 

PS***: The historical picture is mirrored to match my construction pictures.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by dafi

[Morgan]

Hi Daniel,

 

Nice find, there is a lot of Victory’s later history captured in that one photo.

 

An Admiral Seymour recorded in the 1880’s that there were places he could run his walking stick through the sides, you can see what he meant.  It has also been recorded around that time that areas of rot were covered with painted canvas, you can see the rows of nail holes where these patches have been removed.

 

It also captures that the Wales had been removed, none are evident, they were taken off in 1857.

 

The simulated yet planked-over Middle Deck No. 2 port is interesting, as are the numerous ventilation holes and their own riggols.

 

You also get an appreciation of the depth of the chute from the heads which you can see just forward of the Lower Deck bridle port.

 

It also confirms the anchor bed being very similar to that currently on the Trincomalee.

 

Good luck with modelling the stove chimney, can I suggest that the plastic tubing you use is given a good kicking around the floor firstly, that should condition it nicely to match 😁.

 

Gary

[Kevin-the-lubber]

What a sad, sorry sight - the photo, that is. It’ll be at the least hugely entertaining watching what you do here Daniel. I sense experiments with drinking straws ahead 🙂.

[dafi]

Thank you!  🙂 🙂 🙂

 

Since I have to print with black resin paint at the moment and thus can't easily put my white parts in between, here is a bit of preparation for the next steps.  Sometime around 1860 to 1880 the Victory got a small booth on the cabin deck. This probably served as a shelter for the watch and was small in the early years ...

 

 

... but was quite quickly converted to a more comfortable size.

 

 

Therefore, here is the determination of the approximate dimensions and position based on the available photographs.

 

 

Here is the approximate relationship between the distance between the mizzen mast, the booth and the stern. It was easy to measure in some of the pictures and the values were always approximately the same. You have to compensate a little for the perspective shift, but the basic dimensions seem to be right.

 

 

On this view you can determine the width of the booth at its aft end, this point was already defined in the first step. Practically, the width of the booth is equal to its height. The two flag lockers could also be determined by the iron supports at the bulwark.

With this I have been able to draw a plan of the quarterdeck that is good enough for my purposes.
The measurements are 1:100.

 

 

And the height of the bulwark could also be roughly determined via the sailor's belly button. On the outside view I could also determine the foreward end of the bulwark by means of a port.

 

So far it fits.

 

XXXDAn

Edited January 30, 2022 by dafi

[Morgan]

Hi Daniel, 

 

I see you have turned detective once more!

 

In this period Victory acted variously as a signalling ship and tender to the Wellington I believe, so my guess is it would be for the on watch signals team.

 

Looks like the 2 lower structures aft of the cabin are flag lockers as you have identified, with the whole Poop set up as a signals platform.

 

Gary

[dafi]

While the printer was finally processing white resin again, some more planning and work preparation went on. The bulwarks of the open decks will have to be built. This has to be placed on top of the plastic hull shells, so construction, positioning and stability are a challenge. That's why I first filed gaps in the deck support for supports of the bulwarks.

 

 

Then the supports are glued in place and a 2 mm polysterol plate is put on top.

 

 

Clamps to press the plate to the support and wire to press the plate down to the hull.

 

 

Then in the deck, slots for the supports were cut ...

 

 

... and the interior panelling added.

 

 

But it looked too thick compared to the photos. That's why I removed the panelling and the supports and it still holds perfectly.

 

 

I sanded the cut edge again to get an even gluing surface. Since all my big files have a very distinct convexity, I took a stable piece of wood and glued it on with sandpaper 🙂

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

In the meantime, the white parts are also finished. And always these brain pictures. These were the two Trafalgar guns in the first attempt ...



... but when I checked the window dimensions again ...



... crap, the panes only have two parts. Three parts were at the guns in the upper deck.

Then glued in the frame as before ...



... filler pieces glued in for better support ...



... and filled with putty:-)

This deck is also only inlaid, because I will have to to take it out again and work on the inside later to put the window panes into the frames. For this I will trim back the carriages. That's why I made the new triangular cut-outs on the frontside of the carriage.

And I also did a test print. The foremost window in the lower deck had window bars. These are very fine.



And they are to be fitted into the already fixed frames. You can see, however, that they are so fine that slight distortions occur when printing - since no supports can be used. Since the frame has too little undersize for its hole, this is of course exacerbated.



And then again AAAAARGHH! With the dimensions of this bit, I got the first rectangular version and not the frames with a lower height that were used in the end ...



... ok, can be corrected with the next print, maybe the distortion will be better too.

XXXDAn

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Daniel, how thin are the bars? I've been experimenting a bit with resins last month as I've only ever used Elegoo ABS over the last year and, good as it is, it does tend to warp post-printing. Recently I've been using SirayaTech Fast, which is more or less the same price, and I like it a lot. Much less warping and not as brittle as Elegoo Standard. And much, much nicer than Anycubic standard. May be worth a try if you haven't already.

[dafi]

Thank you for the hints Kevin, I will have a look at it!

 

Those bars are 0,36 mm, I know that I was going to the limits, as I always do. For a short distance even thinner bars are possible, I realised  0,2 mm is even under best conditions a realistic limit 🙂

 

This was the white Resin from Anycubic. That is not as good as the black one from Anycubic, that I usually take. The black one has almost no failures, whilst the white one sometimes (rarely) loses the parts from the building plate. Also I have the feeling that the black prints are sharper in the details like corners etc., but that could be a visual desception. In the very start I used the grey eleegoo standard resin and had big trouble as nothing wanted to stick too the building plate, then I tried the black Anycubic with the same settings and never had troublke again 🙂

 

I  do only take the resin out of the tank if a part got lost, otherwise I leave the stuff in and have dozens of prints without any maintenace, even I left the resin in the tank for 2 months without printing, buildingplate down and machine well covered from light, and did not have trouble, just put the plate up and down several times to mix up the color particals well again 🙂

 

All the best, Daniel

Edited February 3, 2022 by dafi

[dafi]

Here is a small excursion into the interior life of the Victory around 1900. The difficulty is that there are far fewer pictures and it is much more difficult to put them in chronological order.

 

The first picture is of the upper gun deck, the photographer standing at the level of the foremast chains and looking aft.

 

 

So far this is the only picture showing the signal guns on the inside. All the supports for the deck beams are from iron. The space is empty so far, which seems to be the case in other interior pictures.

 

A picture further back in the ship - from about the middle of the waist - shows the 12-pounders.

 

 

The structure behind the gun racks is interesting. My interpretation based on the shadow on the deck is a cabin in front of the red outlined window, the light area behind it could be 2 windows with the other guns, and then the partition to Nelson's cabins behind. Plans of 1830 show a bulkhead with doors at excately the same place, and as in the pictures the doors open to the head. So the shadow should not be the door´s one.

The chute outside should be between the last and the second last gun, but I can't find any indication of it on the inside. Possibly the small bend to the aft is a sign that a pipe comes from the direction of the window and the cabin, which could indicate sanitary rooms.

 

 

Another image concerns the two heavy Tarfalgar guns in the mid-deck, recognisable by the two-piece window and the larger angle of the ship's side, marked on the outside picture in the green frame.

 

 

Whether the view is aft or towards the bow is not yet clear to me. Either the structure behind is the bulkhead to the officers' cabins or a booth of the entrance hatch.

 

But you can see that the gun carriage sits very low and that the gun therefore rests on the port frame below. On the other hand, on pictures of the upper battery deck you can see that the carriages there have significantly higher proportions, which also makes the gun barrels sit higher in the port.

 

Here are two more pictures that I think are from the upper battery deck: One is probably the oldest picture of the series, showing Nelson's cabin, and the rooms in front of it ...

 

 

... and once probably also mid-deck with the heavy Trafalgar guns, judging by the slope of the ship's side.

 

 

It remains exciting 🙂

 

XXXDAn

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I'm equally lazy about leaving resin in the tank in between printing sessions though not for months! I just give it a good stir and hope for the best. I rarely have sticking failures these days except where it is entirely my own fault i.e. over-optimistic supporting or object orientation, and I put this down to the resin being good and just using the recommended settings rather than messing around with these. I've only done one print with the anycubic resin and found the result horrible, very similar to my one experiment with the elegoo water washable; poor surface finish compared to the elegoo ABS and sirayatech. But that may be that I didn't change my settings so I will give it a better test presently, otherwise I'll have to slowly use it up by adding a tiny bit of it to other resins over the next few months, bit by bit. Far too expensive to just throw away! For your parts I would probably happily use elegoo ABS as the curling only really becomes an issue on bigger parts - all of my victory stern parts were printed using the elegoo abs, though when I go back to it I'll also try the transom and quarter gallery bodies in siraya, as curling remains a bit of a problem and non abs is too brittle.

 

For what it's worth, the window bars on my stern are 0.3 and I use medium supports around the frame and thin on the bars, but I do have the advantage that they cross over in the middle so have a bit more support. But, if I remember rightly, the wispy decor on the lower counter is only 0.2 and I also supported this. getting the supports off without breaking the part is the hard bit. I make the supports quite long, about 10 mm, and snip them at the bottom, then tease them off the part. Oh yes, I've also learned that with very delicate parts it can be better to leave them to dry out for a day or two after washing, and then cure. That seems to result in less curling. And clearance is essential, as you know - the slightest interference will make small bits bow.

 

One possible thought; if they warp after printing this would only be that the frame is shrinking very slightly; maybe you could either restrain it during drying, or pull it back when glue-ing in place?

 

[dafi]

I believe that the warping of the bars comes from the movement of the build plate: the dynamics of the resin whilst going up and down. And seen how soft the uncured resin is, and also by the fact that these bars are 0,36 mm in diameter with a height of 7,6 mm it i a miracle that even this result is possible 🙂

 

I adapted the basic size of the frame to actualk used windowframe, that is 1 mm lower and increased the thickness up to 0,4 mm and will see what the next print does. The new thickness is 10% more 😉

 

all the best, DAnniel

[Kevin-the-lubber]

That would make sense. Good luck with the next attempt. It seems ironic that these fantastic tech developments land in our lap but we are immediately pushing at their limits. I hardly ever seem to have something that is just 'mouse click, mouse click, mouse click', done.

[dafi]

Since I have once again scored some stupid mistakes, I recant all and everything and claim the opposite 😉

 

First for orientation the side view with port numbering, the original photo is mirrored, as the following interior views also show the port side.

 

 

First the fat mistake: when I was sitting in front of the hull and wanted to sand it, I suddenly thought, oh my dear, since when are the signal guns not in the

upper deck but in the middle deck?

 

 

Its because I had mistakenly assigned the following picture to the upper deck because of the gun mounts :-0

 

 

But it is clearly the middle deck, also recognisable by the top of the forward capstan. What confused me were the guns behind the signal guns.

So I looked at the photos again and rediscovered a detail I had already had forgotten a long time ago:  

 

 

Windows 4,5,6 with the yellow circle are the signal guns of the middle deck, followed by an obscured window and then in 8 and 9 guns!

The interior view shows 3 guns at this place. Further beyond a gun can be seen at the very back, which has the breechline lying on it like in this picture:

 

 

You can also see that there doesn't seem to be a booth at the entrance port, only a small indistinct structure can be seen.

 

 

I have also numbered the picture of the upper deck according to the outside view for better understanding.

 

 

The pipe inside is between ports 7 and 8. The pipe outside can be seen just before port 9 and is probably hidden behind by the hanging knee.

As described before, I suspect a booth around of window 10 due to the shadow on the deck and the 2 guns - also guessable in the deck shadow - in 11 and 12 and behind the bulkhead gun 13.

 

It remains exciting, DAniel

Edited February 6, 2022 by dafi

[dafi]

And we continued with sanding and filling ...

 

 

... there is still a long way to go ...

 

 

... until its smooth as a baby's bum 😉

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Actually I only wanted to cut a new upper deck. To do this, I put the large 2mm polysterol sheet on the table, pushed the model to the edge and ...

 

 

... must have been one of the active gale-force winds, I can't explain it any other way.

 

First look, everything went well. Second look, no, 2 windows are missing, stupid but no problem, I have already produced enough replacements.

 

But then ...

 

 

... I had glued the struts for the elevation of the bow on a section of the upper battery deck shortly before. This, of course, was also loose. And when I tried to reattach it I noticed, ****, the hull is suddenly 2 mm wider than before !?!!

 

 

The two upper decks were only put in without being glued in order to be able to take them out again for the installation of the window panes. But the gap on the side is clearly visible.

 

So I did what was only thought of much later, cut the "carriages" off the windows ...

 

 

... and the upper 2 decks were succesively taken out and the culprit was discovered: the lower gun deck.

 

 

This was the only one glued in and was it broken and tilted and so could not flex back.

 

So I drilled some holes and used hooks to lever the deck back up ...

 

 

... and re-glued it well.

 

In the meantime I found 6 more loose windows, but they could all be kept in situ, only one at the very front I had to glue in a replacement part.

 

 

The other decks are now also back inside and I could continue.

 

XXXDAn

[Hubac's Historian]

Tremendous perseverance, Daniel!

[mtaylor]

Excellent recovery from what most would consider a disaster and worthy only of it being put in the trash bin.

[druxey]

Oh, my! There seem to be a lot of MSW modelers' work falling off workbenches lately. There must a disturbance in the Force.... Great recovery, Daniel.

Edited February 21, 2022 by druxey

[dafi]

Thank you gentlemen 😀

One already suffers as a model builder 😉

And when I'm not doing such nonsense, I'm busy at the moment with the elevations of the sides. During the rebuilding in 1816 the high round bow was installed according to Seppings. Everything was first a cardboard template. Here is the immensely high new bow ...



... then along the upper deck ...



... and the built poop.





A face that only a mother could love - or a dafi http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

Then transfer of the masks to 2 mm polysterol ...



... warm up this round nose part ...



... and pre-bend it.



But 2 mm polysterol doesn't quite want to go the way I want, even with heat, so I cold bend it over the edge of the table until it's nice & soft.



And for further help I had already installed supports inside ...



... and since I still have concerns, I also glued something on the outside to hold it up, no, it's not hawse-pieces, that's coming off again http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif


And somehow it was important now that I got the next parts done, just so for the sore soul ...





And now the worst part for me: patience to let it dry well!

XXXDAn

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by dafi

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Wonderful work Daniel, I'm really looking forward to seeing the final look emerge.

[dafi]

After raising the bow and stern, it was time for the upper deck. To do this, remove the deck, fix the polysterol strip for the new bulwark with clamps ...



... and scribe the curve of the lower deck with a blade. Then set the cut, put the deck back in, clamped the fitted bulwark piece again and scribed it with a block on the inside to have a uniform height above the deck. Then removed, cut the height cleanly and ...



... glued in place. You can hardly see it, there are little wooden blocks glued under the clamps on the outside of the hull, just like on the bow, so that it is flush on the outside.

And slowly it's becoming "something"  😉

The elements on the deck are still orientation aids made of cardboard and not dimensionally adjusted, but you can already see where it's going.



The raised bow ...



... the quarterdeck with Nelson's sloop under the poop ...



... the small guard house, behind it two flag boxes still missing and probably the biggest surprise for the most of you ...



... the forecastle over the forecastle, the fore-fore-castle so to speak.



Hardly visible from the outside ...



... unless someone is standing on it :-)




XXXDAn

Edited February 26, 2022 by dafi

[Ian_Grant]

So interesting to see this never-seen-before version taking shape! Just out of curiosity Daniel:  how many Heller Victory kit hulls do you have? 😃

[dafi]

Used the nice weather to sand outside. Good for the tinkering cave, the nose and the soul.
 

 

 

Just enjoy.

XXXDAn

[dafi]

@Ian_Grant I think about 5  🙂

 

Mainbuild

1910

Technology carrier for etch and print

oob from someone else for reference

new one no wip yet

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Small sign of life from Danmark
Frigate Jylland!

 

Stay up, all the best, Daniel

Edited August 9, 2022 by dafi

[dafi]

I got mail today, fresh off the press, from Kerry Jang in Canada:

Victory, 100-gun First Rtae 1765, Seaforth Publishing.

The book is part of a series ShipCraft and is number 29.

The book deals with Victory model kits and is aimed specifically at modelers. Besides history, it presents the available kits from 1:1200 to 1:64 in the full range of materials, gives an overview of the current aftermarket and presents 3 built models. A larger article goes over the various appearances of the ship and ends in new overview drawings, done especially for this book by McKay.

I have yet to analyze the historical and appearance part at times, but know that Kerry Jang has talked to a great many protagonists of the Victory scene.

Personal notes:
- McKay´s AOTS was my first stop on the way to Victory. The color on the book´s pages were watched pale ever since.
- I stood in front of the first of the 3 models presented in the book at the convention in Rochefort with my mouth open, jaw to the floor: the 1:300 version by Etsuro Tsuboi. Breathtaking!
- The second model of the Victory is 1:48 by Kazunobu Shirai and it was the first model of this ship that I fell in love with over 15 years ago when I started doing internet research on this ship.
- And the third model shown is actually the little fatty one with bumble bee stripes by a certain dafi :-0

Never, really never would I have dared to dream of ending up with 3 of my heroes in the same book!

Thank you Kerry for that opportunity!

Dear greetings, DAniel

[Gahm]

Super, Dafi, your wonderful model fully deserves to be in that book! And this is not only true with regards to your outstanding craftsmanship, but also concerning the unique way you reconstruct (based on thorough historical research) and show what life on board of such a ship looked like! I love following your build log.

 

Thomas