albert Posted December 4, 2015 Share #331 Posted December 4, 2015 Hi Siggi, fantastic work. CaptainSteve, mtaylor and Siggi52 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted December 4, 2015 Share #332 Posted December 4, 2015 Coolest build ever, Siggi. What's next in the dockyard - the fore part of the ship? Siggi52, mtaylor, Erik W and 2 others 5 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 5, 2015 Share #333 Posted December 5, 2015 Wow... that is beautiful, Siggi. I'm looking forward to whatever it is you're doing next. Siggi52, WackoWolf and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainSteve Posted December 5, 2015 Share #334 Posted December 5, 2015 Outstanding, Siggi !!! Siggi52 1 Quote CaptainSteve Current Build: HM Granado Bomb Vessel (Caldercraft) My BathTub: Queen Anne Barge (Syren Ship Models) Log: Queen Anne Barge (an build log) Bounty Launch (Model Shipways) Log: Bounty Launch by CaptainSteve Apostol Felipe (OcCre) HMS Victory (Constructo) Check It Out: The Kit-Basher's Guide to The Galaxy Website: The Life & Boats of CaptainSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnobiumPunctatum Posted December 5, 2015 Share #335 Posted December 5, 2015 I second the compliment of the others. I find it very interesting what you do with the color on your model. I got a lot of inspiration from this. Siggi52, CaptainSteve and mtaylor 3 Quote Regards Christian Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36 On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777 Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48 "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share #336 Posted December 5, 2015 Good morning, thank you for your kind words. I'm still not ready with this ship and sorry, I would't build the first part of it. This would be a one of a kind model for me. The next ship would be build in the bread and butter technique, with all possible short cuts My next project in spring are two Kentucky rifles. One for a friend and one for me. That are then the last rifles I build. Here some pictures from the last rifle I build. It's after a rifle by William Antes. It's more simple to build than a ship model. You have only to cut away any parts that did't look like a rifle Regards, Siggi mtaylor, avsjerome2003, archjofo and 7 others 10 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 5, 2015 Share #337 Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Cut away the parts that didn't look like a rifle ! ? ! You make it sound easy. it can't be so simple..... can it ? Edited December 5, 2015 by AON Siggi52, avsjerome2003, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 5, 2015 Author Share #338 Posted December 5, 2015 Alan, you have to know how a rifle looks like and that is much more simple than such a ship Siggi src, mtaylor and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted December 5, 2015 Share #339 Posted December 5, 2015 Now you are being modest. As a former hunter I appreciate the ergonomic design of a perfect grip and shoulder rest, balance of the stock, length, etc... Then there is the fit and finish of a real wooden stock (not that plastic crap they sell now) that brings a smile to my face. mtaylor, avsjerome2003, WackoWolf and 2 others 5 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share #340 Posted December 6, 2015 Hello, yesterday I build the stanchion with the bitt piece and this morning I installed them. The deck is also fresh oiled. The next things would be the stanchions, transom and taffrail at the stern. By the way, the captain is back When I look at the bitt piece, I find it very low. But it's exactly after the plan! Regards, Siggi CaptainSteve, EdT, robin b and 9 others 12 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 6, 2015 Share #341 Posted December 6, 2015 The crosspiece is placed low so that you could pass a line under it and haul it up tight on the other side. It gives one a good angle of pull. Over the years I've discovered that nothing on a ship was placed by accident: it's all part of a well thought out or well developed design. WackoWolf, Siggi52, dvm27 and 3 others 6 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share #342 Posted December 6, 2015 Druxey, thank you for your explanation. I thought the same thing, but did't know it exactly and in relationship with the captain it looks very low. Cracker, try it harder. She did't look very happy. Thank you all. Regards, Siggi WackoWolf, mtaylor, CaptainSteve and 2 others 5 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share #343 Posted December 9, 2015 Hello, the taffrail is ready! That was't so easy as it looks, but now fresh under paint, all the hardships are forgotten. Regards, Siggi Dubz, ggrieco, Landrotten Highlander and 15 others 18 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted December 9, 2015 Share #344 Posted December 9, 2015 Hi Siggi, beautiful model, fantastic work. mtaylor, Siggi52 and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted December 9, 2015 Share #345 Posted December 9, 2015 super model Siggi, Nils mtaylor and Siggi52 2 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 9, 2015 Share #346 Posted December 9, 2015 Yes, those serpentine curves - plus the transverse curve - are very tricky to do, but you've nailed it, Siggi! mtaylor, dvm27 and Siggi52 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvm27 Posted December 9, 2015 Share #347 Posted December 9, 2015 "Wasn't so easy as it looks"? That's an understatement as it looks bloody difficult Siggi. Lovely job! Siggi52 1 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share #348 Posted December 13, 2015 Hello, Thank you for your kind words and likes. Today I finished the rails of the poop deck, except for the scrolls at there beginning. I think I build these tomorrow. Regards, Siggi Timmo, druxey, albert and 9 others 12 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert Posted December 13, 2015 Share #349 Posted December 13, 2015 wonderful Siggi52, CaptainSteve and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share #350 Posted December 14, 2015 Hello, now with the scrolls the ship is more or less ready. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. But the rest must also be done. There is the stairway to the poop deck. Normally there are two stairways, but the Thunderer/ Hercules has only one in the middle of the deck. I think it's a model of the Dragon, because of the dragons at the stern. The label in NMM says only this: I followed in most cases the plan and not this model, so should I better build two stairways? In the plan is now stairway drawn, but I think not that this means there was't any. Regards, Siggi AON, archjofo, Erik W and 11 others 14 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 14, 2015 Share #351 Posted December 14, 2015 Siggi, Given the time period, it might be that the 74's had only one ladder and then later, they changed it to two as the needs evolved. I'm thinking that one is what it probably had as they copied the French design early on. Siggi52 and WackoWolf 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 15, 2015 Share #352 Posted December 15, 2015 I imagine only one access ladder was needed until there was armament mounted on the poop deck. Siggi52, wyz and mtaylor 3 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share #353 Posted December 15, 2015 Good morning, I think that Mark is right. After Boudriot, even the 74 gunner of the 1780th have only one ladder. Earlier english ship models have mostly two ladders or none! I think that this is only a shortcut, because it has nothing to do with the design of the ship. But they have build the intern ladders! The poop was in battle the place where the marine's have there place behind the netted hammocks. So there was may be a lot of traffic in battle and that the reason for two ladders and you have a ladder away from the battle. So I really dont know what to build. From the artistic view, two ladders look better and you could see the binnacle and wheels better. Also the helmsman could see better forward. I think that they may have changed it later to a two ladder version. What do you think? Regards, Siggi CaptainSteve and WackoWolf 2 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 15, 2015 Share #354 Posted December 15, 2015 This was early on in the English development of the 74 which they based their designs on the captured French 74's. The French tended to limit access to officer's country and were pretty protective of it. They had a "watchkeepers" bench usually overlooking the ship from the poop or quarterdeck (depending if the ship had a poop) and that bench also doubled as an arms locker for the officers on watch. The French also had a covered companionway that was only used by officers to access the highest aft deck. Referencing AOTS Bellona shows 'as built' in 1760 with one and it was after the rebuild of 1778-1780, that there is a model showing two ladders. Which says that the Brits, at some point, decided they needed two ladders. Bottom line... I'd go with one based on the historical references if it's "as built". If it's later in life after a large rebuild, then two ladders but I suspect there were more changes during the rebuild than just two ladders. Siggi52 and WackoWolf 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
src Posted December 16, 2015 Share #355 Posted December 16, 2015 Siggi, If you plan to enter in a contest then I would think you should go with what you can document. If however your goal is to look at it and know you did the best you could than go with what looks better to you and justify it with the "refit" back story. Just my thoughts. Sam WackoWolf, mtaylor, CaptainSteve and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build Constructo Enterprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share #356 Posted December 16, 2015 Hello, many thanks for your detailed answers to my question. Mark, where did you find that statement in the Bellona book. I fond only under external details, page 62 E19, ladder from quarterdeck to poop, but the drawings 19/1-2 showing the ladder from upper gun deck to quarterdeck! Regards, Siggi Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted December 17, 2015 Share #357 Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) I believe that E19/1 and 2 are the Quarterdeck to Poop ladder plans as the ladder seems to be at the middle of the beams.. Catch is, I can't find a poop deck plan, nor see any other ladder going to the poop. Maybe I'm misreading this E19 drawing. I assumed the label was correct but it shows stanchions around the ladderway which wouldn't be on a ladder at the end of the deck. Did the poop deck get totally missed by Lavery? I'll look at some other resources I have... I like a good mystery and this one is a puzzle... Edit: I'm shrugging my shoulders... this is getting a bit weird... and my apologies... Hero, Hercules, and Thunderer --- NMM plans and/or models indicate one ladder from the poop to the quarterdeck.... Ajax, Edgemont, Bellona --- NMM plans and/or models indicate 2 ladders. All these are contemporary of the Dragon.... It looks like either way could be right... Edited December 17, 2015 by mtaylor Siggi52 and avsjerome2003 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share #358 Posted December 17, 2015 Hello Mark, the ladder in picture 19/1 is between two beams and has a rail! So it looks at the plan of Bellona / Dragon except the rail. There is no ladder to the poop drawn and to my knowledge there is no plan of the poop deck. The ladders to the poop deck have no rail and no beams above in front of the ladder. Sorry my english, but I hope you understand what I would say. It is bad, but real that Lavery has many mistakes in this book. As I stated earlier, I believe that the model of Thunderer/ Hercules is really the Dragon. The model at page 26 is the same model from wich are the pictures I posted under #382 and the model of the coppered Bellona (page 24) is from 1778, after some greater repairs. I think I go with that what Sam say's and build two ladders. May be one ladder was only a try, but did't work for them. There are older and younger models with two ladders, the model of the Thunderer/ Hercules is the only one I know with one ladder. Regards, Siggi avsjerome2003 and WackoWolf 2 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted December 17, 2015 Share #359 Posted December 17, 2015 The contemporary NMM (RMG) model of Thunderer/Hercules, SLR 0310, has one central ladder to the poop deck, and no breast railing. mtaylor 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggi52 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share #360 Posted December 17, 2015 Yes Druxey and the pictures I posted under #382 are from that model. But sorry, there is a breast railing. Is my english soo bad ? Siggi mtaylor 1 Quote Regards, Siggi Recent build: HMS Tiger (1747) Captains Barge ca. 1760, scratch build HMS Dragon 74 gunner 1760, scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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