Landlubber Mike

Hi Mark, thanks for commiserating my friend. I actually thought of you when shutting this one down The lines are different, so I will have to take them off the plans. What I plan on doing is first going through the Pegasus hull construction, then the Morgan hull construction, which requires some scratch building as you set the hull (and other things) up. I'm learning a ton from the Pegasus, and I imagine I'll learn even more from the Morgan. So when I start back up on the Lyme, I hope to be a little more knowledgeable and have a decent game plan. On the question of 1:75 versus 1:64, the kit is in 1:75, so I took the NMM plans of 1:48 and converted them to 1:75. I also copied a set at 1:48. 1:75 is a bit of an add scale, so I could change to 1:64. I kinda like the idea of trying it at 1:48, but that would require a lot of wood and space. I have some time to think about it.

Mark, hang in there my friend. Looks like you've got a good solution in the works, so just stay with it. I was scolded by my wife for using a few choice words last night taking three tries to make various planks for my upper hull planking, so we've all been there. Just looked up domkop - maybe I should add some foreign words to my arsenal. Either that, or I can just call myself "cabbage head" or "pudding head," as my girls would get a kick out of that.

Hey Joe, thanks for looking in. Sorry to hear about the framing - I can only guess at your frustration. One thing to consider is that Model Expo I think will replace parts? Maybe you can fix the framing that way?

Looks really great to me Jason! The boxwood and finish look really nice. I took the same "Frankenstein" approach on my Pegasus. If you're going to cover it up with copper plates, why bother using good wood? I have a love-hate relationship with walnut. I think it looks gorgeous when it is oiled, but working with it at this scale is tough given how splintery it is. I was really glad to get through the lower hull planking. I needed a mental health break after The upper hull planking so far seems to be a little easier, at least on the Pegasus, where I haven't needed to spile. Lots of custom planks to be cut around the gunports and sweep ports though.

I bought the Dewalt that people recommend off of someone on Craigslist, basically brand new, stand, light and extra blades, for less than half of what it was retail. I saw a lot of scroll saws on Craigslist when I was looking - I think lots of dads out there buy them to do a project with their kids, then have no other use for them.

Nice work Scoot, looking very solid. Just out of curiosity, have you thought about whether you are going to single plank your build, or double plank it? The instructions say you can plank with 0.5mm planks as a second planking. I am thinking of doing that for the lower planking, particularly to get a nice smooth hull, but the upper planking I might single plank. Looking closely at the Morgan, it looks like the upper hull planking has planks beveled at the edges - I don't think 0.5mm planks are thick enough to bevel to get that effect, so I might single plank the upper hull.

Hi Scoot, thanks for looking in. It's great that more people are working on the Morgan right now. When I bought the kit a couple of years ago, I think John (texxn5) was the only one with an active log. Now there are a bunch of people either finished or on the home stretch, or starting their builds like us and Joe V. Will be nice having someone working alongside me as I work through the build.

Scoot, really nice work so far. I like your approach to the rabbet and attaching the keel pieces to the center keel, I might have to do the same on my Morgan. One thing I haven't decided is whether to attach the stem on at this time, or after the planking is added. The benefit of adding the stem now is that it is easy to align it perfectly with the keel. Others suggest adding it after the planking to help get a clean planking line. I'm leaning towards adding it now, as that worked out pretty well on my Pegasus.

Old Man, of the kits I've started so far, for the keel and bulkheads, Caldercraft and Corel used plywood, Amati used MDF, and Model Shipways used basswood for the keel and I think plywood for the bulkheads. Use whatever is flat and will provide a good solid skeleton for your build. I don't think you can go wrong with plywood or MDF. Just make sure that it's pretty solid without any flex. The Corel bulkheads, for example, I found had too much flex, particularly at the tops of the bulkhead extensions. Even if whatever material you use has more flex than you would prefer, there are steps you can take to minimize any twisting of the hull - filler blocks, braces between bulkheads, etc. help a lot. I used braces on my Corel Unicorn and the bulkheads and hull were very solid. The bulkhead extensions, however, still had quite a bit of flex though.

The key is to have something that isn't warped, and won't warp. A junk piece can work just as well as a new piece - you won't see it anyway.

I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the kit. The plans and instructions are really well done. The wood that comes with the kit is mostly basswood and beech dowels, though the bulkheads might be in plywood. I wonder about using basswood for the keel, and will probably consider strengthening the hull in some areas to keep it straight. The wood though seems to be of very nice quality. The cast parts are, well, cast parts and I'll probably look to improve on them. The nice thing about this kit is that the plans contemplate that the builder will scratch build some parts. I think that will be a lot of fun. Plus, there are lots of metal tools and implements, so I will probably have to bug my buddy Ian for metalworking tips. Not too much progress thus far. The center keel is in two pieces, so after marking the bulkhead lines and the orientation line from the plans (a very nice touch on the kit to ensure proper alignment), I glued the two pieces last night on a piece of MDF covered with plastic wrap and with heavy weights to ensure that it remained straight.

Build Log Table of Contents [to come]

Now that I've shelved my HMS Lyme for the time being to build it as a future scratch build, I decided to start the Charles Morgan by Model Shipways. I won't get into the politics of whaling, and by building this model I don't mean to glorify that industry, but the ship is a beautiful vessel with a lot of history. It was built in 1841 and made 37 voyages, processing more whales than any other ship in history. It was purchased for Mystic Seaport in 1941, where it currently resides as part of the museum. A couple of summers ago I went to a wedding in Connecticut and took a side trip one day to visit Mystic Seaport and the Morgan with my family. My daughter had a great time going on the "pirate ship." It's well worth a visit if you can get out there, with other ships also as part of the collection. I'm particularly excited to build a model of a ship that I had the privilege of visiting. I was able to take a lot of pictures, which I'll show from time to time on this log (like the ones on this post). My plans for the build: The MS kit is based on the configuration of 1892-1908. I have the Leavitt book on the Morgan, and like the Constitution, the Morgan has gone through various configurations at the stern. I'll probably build the kit based on the kit's configuration, but I might do a little research to see if there is another that I prefer. At one time fake gunports were pointed along its sides which is not a look I want to replicate on this build. Like the Pegasus, I'm planning to paint with wood by either using natural woods or using stains in lieu of paints. The Morgan is primarily black with white accents, the bulkwarks and deck structures ochre, and the deck somewhat grayish. At one time I thought about using African Blackwood for the black areas, but was quoted a price of close to $700 for wood to make the build. A bit pricey, so I think I'm going to go with pear stained black for the black areas. I still need to think about the white areas - I might use holly, or in the alternative, I found a white stain by General Finishes that isn't too garish and covers wood and metal very nicely. The ochre areas will be in boxwood, and for the deck, I have one stain that will give that grayish look - but I might try some of the weathering applications out there to see things come out. My goal is to hopefully show the Morgan in a more weathered state - a little rust on the iron parts, oxidized hull coppering, etc. I also plan to display the model in full sail. There are a number of other great logs out there from which I will shameless borrow from - Texxn5 (John), Bruce Evans, Gerald Spargo, Joe V, Udo K, Scoot and Homer -- among other logs using other kits. They set the bar up high which is a good challenge for me to do the best I can do. In case you are interested, the Morgan underwent a big restoration project a few years ago. There is a real in-depth blog on the Mystic Seaport website which details with great pictures all the work that went into the restoration. It's amazing how these ships were built in the absence of power equipment: http://www.mysticseaport.org/morganblog/ Thanks for looking in!

As Mark said, a lot of plywood in hobby sizes seems to be warped. I bought some to replace my Unicorn keel - first from Micromark which was really warped (to their credit, they refunded me my purchase cost) and then a packet of five pieces from a second retailer and most of those pieces were warped as well. When I re-start my Lyme as a scratch build, I'm going to think about MDF. I don't think it suffers any warp issues, and is incredibly solid. MDF was used in my Pegasus kit, and it was great. The only thing I would mention about MDF is that it is very hard to sand yet at the same time can flake if you try to chisel it.

Lavery has a nice discussion of the tiller and ship's wheel history and development. Lots of discussion on various developers and their approaches to the tiller and sweep. If you can't make it to the library, let me know and I can see how to get you the information you need.

Ian, wow, that tiller cover came out fantastic. Brilliant way to incorporate it into the flag locker construction. Looks perfect! On the tiller sweep, I'm afraid I don't know much about these things. I don't think the Pegasus had a sweep. I just took a peek at Lavery - there is a diagram very similar to the last one you posted above, in the discussion on page 23 regarding the steering on smaller vessels (specifically, Lavery refers to "small 6th Rates and many sloops"). The top down view is almost identical to your diagram, and the profile picture accompanying it shows the tiller above the deck. There is no tackle on the sweep, and probably no rollers, so I bet in that case, the sweep was intended to support tiller and not the ropes. Dafi had some discussion on the tiller sweep here, but I think it was below deck as well. Might be worth a look: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8770-thinking-things-throu-the-gunroom-gunner´s-room/

Well guys, I've decided to close this build log down and build the Lyme as a complete scratch build. Yesterday afternoon, I had the Lyme plans from the NMM copied and reduced to 1:75, and a set of originals and the 1:75 scale plans laminated. Later that evening, I spent five or so hours comparing the build and the Corel plans against the Lyme plans - a long night that ended in much disappointment. I was pretty encouraged in the beginning that the middle part of the ship was fairly consistent with the Lyme plans. Then I moved to the bow, and realized that the shape of the bow (using the kit keel), and the stem I had scratched earlier, was different from the Lyme bow. The kit's bow is pretty angular, whereas the Lyme's bow was more square. So, I figured I would be replacing the stem and stem post anyway, and would just have to figure out a way to modify the shape of the bow. Not too bad.... Things took a nasty turn when I went to measure the height of the upper deck off of the bottom of the keel. I knew the sweep of the decks in the kit were too high at the stern and so I was hoping that all I had to do was change the angle at the stern and possibly the stem and that was it. So, it would be pretty easy to measure up from the keel on the plans, and take some material from the bulkheads as need be. Big problem though - the height of the Corel kit is a lot higher than what the Lyme plans and even Chapman's plans suggest! I'm not talking by a few millimeters, but as much as 20mm+ from the keel to the bottom of the gunports in some places! With that discrepancy, I don't think I can fix things. It's going to be hard to measure up from the keel, as I don't have a solid reference point to measure from. That, with all the other work I would have to do to modify the kit, I've come to the realization that it would be a lot easier in the long run to build from scratch using the Lyme plans. I have the tools, and it shouldn't be too hard to cut a new keel and bulkheads from plywood. I already cut a new keel one to replace the badly warped one from the kit, so I have a little experience. So a lot of frustration right now, but in the long run, I think this would be the better course. I'll shut this log down and start a new one on the Scratch forum once I get started. I really love the look of the Lyme, and after all the research I've done, it would be a shame not to build it. I'm considering whether to build the Lyme in 1:75 or 1:48 - at 1:75, it's a pretty sizable model at around 3 feet in overall length. At 1:48, I'd have the opportunity to add a lot of cool detail but the model would push 4 feet in length. While figuring this out, in the meantime, I think I'm going to start the Charles Morgan as a parallel build to my Pegasus. I like having another model to turn to when I get fatigue or burn out and need a mental break. Stay tuned! Eventually I'll start a Lyme class build

Thanks for the support Ian It will be interesting to see if I can come up with a somewhat decent replica. This afternoon I went and got the Lyme plans scaled down from 1:48 to 1:75 scale, made a few copies of them (for cut outs, templates, etc.) and had one set laminated. Figured it would be a lot easier working off scaled down plans rather than unrolling the original plans every time and converting the scale. The annoying thing is that the Corel plans show the ship facing left, while the NMM plans (and most others I think) have the ship facing right. Looking at the Lyme plans, it seems like at least the kit is very accurate with the distance between gunports 2 and 13 (the kit skips gunport 1). I was very happy to see that. We will see how accurate things are height wise, particularly with the sheer of the various decks which I think are not so accurate. At least for now I feel a lot more comfortable taking measurements off the plans to modify the stern and convert the ship to a rounded bow ship. It's too bad the Lyme didn't have a beakhead bow as it's a pretty neat look. For the stern, I've been looking at Chuck's instructions for the Confederacy (another beakhead ship!). I'm probably going to frame the stern very similarly to how he did the Confederacy, as its stern is very similar to the Lyme. He also has easy to follow techniques on how to frame the gunports and sweep ports. Unlike kits from Caldercraft and Amati which use plywood gunport patterns, Corel has you frame them along the bulkheads. Having gone through the gunport pattern process on my Badger and Pegasus builds, it will be interesting to see how the other technique is. As Ian would say, there's probably going to be a lot of surgery going on here. If you're squeamish, it might be a good idea to hide your eyes

After a little burn out from planking my Pegasus, I decided to switch models and give the Pegasus a rest for a bit. I was going to start a ship-in-bottle scratch build, but a few conversations with my friend Ian on his Unicorn build made me decide to give my Lyme another look. As I mentioned earlier in the log, I got really frustrated with this kit because the various plans did not match up with one another. I'm perfectly fine with historical inaccuracies, but when you move from one plan to another, you would think that the plans should match up. In any event, working on the Pegasus was worthwhile, as I got a little better with my woodworking and modeling skills, and working on the hull of the Pegasus gave me a lot of insight into how to possibly modify the Lyme to improve on the accuracy of the model. So, I took a fresh look at where I was, and with the benefit of the Lyme plans. Having earlier worked using the small scale plans for the Unicorn in the Chapman book, I was a bit off on the width of the keel and stem post (too big). Looking back at my work, and in particular looking at the stem that I scratch built, I'm not as pleased with the work and will just re-do it. It will be a pain, but I don't want to kick myself down the road for not improving on it. The more interesting exercise was trying to figure out the stern of the Lyme and how to modify the kit to accommodate those modifications. The kit is really off in a lot of ways when it comes to the stern - no stern post, stern galleries are way too far aft from the last gunport, wrong angles of the stern, wrong angles of the decks leading to the stern, square tuck stern as opposed to a rounded tuck stern, etc. To get an idea of how wrong I think the kit is, take a look at the following picture: This picture is from the kit plans. The two horizontal blue lines represent a rough estimate of the what the lines of the upper deck and quarterdeck should be (as opposed to the sharply upward sloping lines representing the decks on the plans). The red line is the line that should mark the fore end of the stern post. The red line in the picture is set at 105 degrees, which is what the Lyme plans show. The Chapman plans for the Unicorn may be closer to 103 degrees. Regardless, you can see how far in the false keel would have to be taken in. The green outlined picture is that of the stern galleries - this is where I roughly think the stern galleries should actually be - much closer to gunport 13, a bit lower, and sitting over the stern post. Looking at the picture, I'm almost wondering if the windows in the galleries are too tall, and should be reduced by one row of panes. Now for my Lyme build - here is a picture on how these changes will impact the build: The red line indicates the 105 degree line for the stern post mentioned earlier (it's actually a few millimeters aft where it should be, but bulkhead 15 is in the way). You can see how much of the keel needs to be removed. It's also apparent that the last bulkhead, bulkhead 15, is not shaped correctly and it calls into question the accuracy of bulkheads 16 and 17, which I have not added yet. After correcting bulkhead 15, I think I'll add one more bulkhead to form the lower edge of the stern counter, and to hold stern frames to attach the transom, etc. So a lot of work to do, but I don't think as bad as one might fear. I still have to figure out how to modify the bow to change the ship from the Unicorn's beakhead bow to the more conventional rounded bow of the Lyme, but that's fun for another night Thanks for looking in!

Thistle, sorry for not catching your posts. I think the guys above have given you the answers you seek on whether the waist is open or closed. As they say, short answer is that later in the 18th century, ships moved to more of a closed-waist set up. Mid-18th century, the waist was much more open. If you are looking for a more accurate Lyme class frigate, go with the approach taken by Ian and that scratch build I linked above. Aside from historical accuracy, the benefit of the very open waist is that you open up the ship to a lot of really cool detail work. Definitely post a build log on here when you get started and join our Unicorn crew

Hey, did the OP write this after looking at my logs? My first kit was the Badger, which I mostly did from the kit and just added some details like furled sails. I have four more kits stashed away - two I'm working on at the moment (Amati Pegasus and Corel Unicorn), as well as the MS Charles Morgan and the Euromodel FWZP. After those, I should be ready for full on scratch building, and will build Le Gros Ventre from the Ancre plans if rigging cannons on the earlier builds doesn't kill me first. Anyway, each of those four kits I paid significantly below retail, so I don't mind replacing the kit wood or detail pieces with better pieces. I'm not at the level of scratch building yet (even though I have bought the tools for it), but I don't mind spending money for the plans and pieces I will use like the bulkheads and keel. I might end up replacing some or all of the other pieces, but the kit pieces at least are a good template to start with. If I bought the plans and some plywood or MDF to build to bulkheads and keel, I probably would have come close to what I paid for the kit itself. Ultimately, I want a model that I'm proud of at the end, and not one where I wish I had done something differently. As others have mentioned, these are long term projects (especially for me with how slow I build). On a per hour basis, this hobby is incredibly cheap relative to my prior hobbies of playing golf, drinking beer and chasing women - and a lot better for marital harmony now that I'm married

Thanks very much guys. BE, you're right about the sweep ports in front of both 6 and 7. I missed the one in front of 6 the first time because it sits right between the steps. I spent the day today cutting out and lining the four new ports. Now, it's time to start the upper hull planking. Thanks very much for looking in!

Thanks Martin! I'll have to take another look at my plans. I'm pretty sure that the extra sweep port was in front of #7, but I should double-check. What a pain - I'll have to cut a hole and line two more sweep ports. I'm not looking forward to the blocks. I'm considering adding metal sheaves inside them, but I think if I open that door, I might be stuck customizing all the blocks on the build. For the stain, I applied one solid coat, a second very quick light coat, and then some touch ups. I like stains rather than paints because they spread very nicely and don't result in thick spots like with paint. How many did you use? Did you use a sanding sealer? I thought about it, but decided not to as the black has very even coverage. I might explore it with the blue friezes though. I'm not going to fight the redheart. Seems pointless from everything I've read. The russet color is very nice, and not as stark as the bright red of the freshly cut redheart so I think it would work very nicely in the end. For future builds, I might consider sticking with pear and staining it with one of the GF finishes if I want a redder look. The Cranberry Red is a really nice color. Did you have trouble with the capstan darkening too much in the end grain sides with the polyurethane? I found that tung oil darkened the end grain to almost black, but varnish preserved the underlying wood color.

Last night while recovering from becoming cross-eyed from adding the sweep port linings, I did some planning and research for the upper hull. Part of the trickiness is the fact that I'm using two different colored stains, one for the upper hull planking in brown, and blue for frieze background. I was hoping that the planking lines would generally line up with the changes in colors, but no such luck of course. So, the plan is to install the brown planks first and stain them, then install the blue planks, and cover up the seam between the two color changes with the various rails. Should work I hope - just need to be careful that the blue stain doesn't bleed too far onto the brown planks. I'm considering adding a super thin gap between the two sets of planks which will be covered by the rails. Fingers crossed. Fixed blocks. It looks like I also need to install fixed blocks in the waist of the upper hull (one single, one double). Tricky, because one side will be the color of the hull planking, and the other, which faces into the bulwarks, will have to be red. So, I think I'll be making the blocks with redheart on one side and pear on the other. Extra sweep port. Quick question on the extra sweep port for you Swan Class builders. From TFFM and the NMM plans, it looks like there is an extra sweep port in front of port 7. The kit has sweep ports fore and aft of ports 3-5. I'm a little confused because I see that BE on his Pegasus and Dan Vadas on his Vulture added extra sweep ports in front of ports 6 and 7, and Martin only added an extra sweep port in front of port 6. I'll probably go with just adding one in front of port 7, because the steps along the side of hull (I forget what they are called) seem to be right in front of the port 6. But, whenever smarter people than me take a different approach, I always try to take a step back and figure out if I made a mistake - which is usually the case!

Thanks very much guys, really appreciate it. Ian, you get along just fine with the tools you have so the Byrnes saw isn't necessary. Plus, less chance for you to lose a digit or two - it always makes my posterior pucker up when I turn it on I need to get better pictures. I have resorted to using my iPhone as it is easier than my Sony camera (which has a bigger light sensor) to move pictures to the computer. I'm trying to be very careful on exposing the ship to sunlight because the redheart has already started changing to more of an orangey-brown color. The redheart that is sitting in my basement is as bright red as when I got it from Hobbymill, but over time working on the ship upstairs, the redheart has slowly started turning. I'm not too concerned as I knew that would happen anyway - apparently, even adding a finish to the wood won't stop that process. Everything should mellow into a nice color at the end I would hope.