Louie da fly

Hi Doug and Suzy, and welcome to MSW. The model's looking good so far. Are those big drill bits locating the mast positions? Interesting idea. There's a bit of a trick to turning those photos the right way up, but it might be a bit hard to explain. What I do is save the photos from my phone onto a USB stick, then open each one and if it's upside down or whatever, turn it (there's a little curved arrow) upright then move to the next - the one you've just turned gets saved upright and then you can insert it onto the page in MSW. Others my have better ways of doing it (and in fact probably do) but this works for me. I'm not sure why a paddlesteamer would be more difficult than a square-rigger - think of all that rigging you're going to have to do! Make sure you open a build log - then we get to share your progress, and you can get help and advice from the members here. I've found it an invaluable aid in my own modelling. And don't hold back from asking questions if there's something you can't figure out - the people here are very friendly and helpful. Steven

I've been following this discussion with interest but been unable to contribute to it. I'm the most hamfisted solderer in existence and blissfully ignorant about drill bits, but I can appreciate the knowledge of others which leaves me rather awestruck. Steven

Nice work, mate. Steven

Thought you might like to see this - Olympias and the frigate Salamis - both ships of the Greek navy. Steven

Well, after a lot of trial, and even more error, I seem to have sorted the problem out. The first problem to solve was getting the mizzen stay the right length - as it has a pair of deadeyes and lanyards as part of its length, what I did was to try attaching the two ends separately - one to the lower part of the mainmast, the other to the mizzen just below the top -and then add the lanyards. Bad idea. After many iterations and false starts I realised what I should have done is put the whole assembly together and pull the lanyards roughly to length, then attach the ends to the masts. So I did that - in fact I only threaded the lanyard through a single pair of holes in the deadeyes to start with, to see if it would work - and it worked like a charm (relatively - I discovered when I had the assembly partly threaded that I'd run the lanyard through a gap between the deadeye and the strop instead of through the hole in the deadeye, so I had to pull it all out and do it again. This kind of thing keeps happening to me - I really dread doing this fiddly stuff with ropes - they don't seem to like me and tangle at the slightest opportunity. However, I am learning bit by bit about how the rigging works, so perhaps it's all for the best). I finished threading the lanyards, and then of course I had to remove the glue from the mainmast, which had accumulated from the false starts. I think I've got rid of it all And then the same procedure with the lower bonaventure stay: I'm not totally happy with the way the ends of the strops lie against the stays - I'm considering shortening them so they look tidier, but I might be better leaving well enough alone -they're not perfect, but messing with them might make them worse (worst case scenario I might accidentally cut through the stay and have to start all over again). Then to start on the halyard, threading it through the sheaves of the knight and the block. Not all that easy - I didn't have all that much room - the knight was so close to the fore bulwark of the upper deck that it was difficult getting the tweezers in to grab the free end of the halyard - and I had to do that three times. Oh, and I'd got it through three sheaves when I discovered it was on the wrong side of the stay so I had to unthread it again and re-do it. Finally finished it, and I have to say it looks better. Apart from anything else, the knot at the end of the halyard (which holds it from pulling through the sheave) is now on the forrard side - which means it can't be seen - and what you can see is three nice parallel lines running between the knight and the block. Not only that but I discovered that when I was putting the knight in place many months ago I had inadvertently put it about 2 millimetres off-centre - just enough to avoid the problem I'd been so concerned about - that the halyards and tyes would chafe on the mizzen stay. Funny how these things turn out, that an earlier mistake solves a later problem. The mizzen stay and main halyard assembly in relation to each other. On the right hand photo you can see the free end of the strop on the lower deadeye isn't tied down properly. In this photo it's now tied down, but not totally happy with the look. As you can see, I haven't pulled the halyards and lanyards tight. I think I'll leave this for the moment and do it when I'm sure it won't have the same nasty effects as last time. On another subject, I've added all the ratlines to the lower bonaventure shrouds. This photo shows the ratlines in place and in the process of being trimmed to length (I've since completed them). Sorry about the photo quality - the automatic focus on my phone is very frustrating. Steven

A fascinating discussion on not only the Battle and the rams, but on the development from "threes" (triremes) to "forties" and many other things, with a side journey to the SIZE of the rams from the Battle of Actium, where Augustus defeated Mark Antony. Steven

Just came across this video of a lecture by Boris Rankov - who was the rowing master on the Olympias -

That will be interesting. Making your own deadeyes can be a real trial (don't ask me how I know), but if your tool works out, it would be worthwhile sharing it with others. By the way, when it comes to attaching the chains that secure the lower end of the deadeyes, be sure to take note of the angles, as in Lapinas's post # 62 above. Also note from the diagrams in that post that real chains are rather different from the ones supplied with the kit. Steven

A little, but I don't think terribly much. I'm working on it at the moment, to see how it works out. Steven

You're making good progress, mate. I must have missed this one - I normally keep up to date with the pre-1500 builds. Steven

I was going to contact you regarding this, Patrick, but you've beaten me to it. Yes, I'd thought it was a bit off-centre, but I'm following the Lomellina wreck for which they've found the whole of the knight assembly and it appears to have been supported centrally, directly on the keel itself. And despite the risk of chafing, this seems to be the only way to go. By the way, as you can see my knight is considerably bigger (with more sheaves) than that of the Lomellina - just as the Great Harry is much bigger than the Lomellina herself. Steven

Hmm, this photo of how Patrick did it with his Pelican may show the way forward - and it confirms me in my resolve to move the deadeyes for the mizzen stay further from the mainmast. I note that the knight in this photo is turned at right angles to the one in my Great Harry, but even then I think there may still be possible chafing problems. But I can't see a better solution at the moment. Steven

A lot of fiddling with the bonaventure - I made the mistake of gluing the lanyards for the deadeyes before I'd got everything adjusted equally. I tried loosening off the lanyards by dissolving the glue, but all that happened is that the deadeyes "popped out" of the strops as I tried to adjust things - the plastic deadeyes were only held to the strops with PVA glue and friction - not a good combination. Then the holes in the deadeyes got gummed up so the lanyards wouldn't go through. So I had to make two more whole shroud/deadeye assemblies to replace the existing ones. Then tightening the shrouds slackened off the lower bonaventure stay (as you can see in the photo). And I'd already glued in place the lanyards for the deadeyes that tension the stay. Big mistake. So I'm having to remove the stay/deadeye assembly and make a new one. But in the meantime I've been adding ratlines to the lower bonaventure shrouds in the usual way - no clove hitches, just glue (PVA -white glue). The shrouds were unequally spaced - those bits of stick between the shrouds are temporary spacers to keep them apart till the ratlines stabilise the spacing. The trouble with the PVA, however, is that the residue is shiny. So all the new shrouds and ratlines are shiny. The old ones were probably shiny back in the day as well, but 50 years of dust has probably dulled them off. To compensate, I've just been experimenting with painting them with watered-down acrylic black paint. I've only done it on one set so far, but it looks promising. By the way, I'm not totally happy with the configuration of the tackle for lower mizzen stay - the lower deadeye is too close to the mainmast and the two deadeyes are too close together - the lanyards should be longer. I've also decided that the halyard should be belayed to a cleat on the mast instead of to the capstan (otherwise the capstan can't be used for anything else). So I'll have to do a bit of tweaking, otherwise it will all sneer at me later on. Now, a problem I've come across that I'd appreciate help with. The main halyard tackle, which goes to a knight at deck level, seems to foul the tackle of the lower mizzen stay, and I can't figure out what to do about it. I'm sure there must have been a solution to this back in the day, but I can't work out how they could have done it. Does anybody have any ideas? Steven

Researching rowing technique:

Aah! I see you're master of nautical terminology - a man after my own heart - none of this woossy bow and stern stuff . . . Steven PS: Loving the model and the fact that you're 3rd generation navy.

Hard to believe this is your first wooden model. You're doing very well, mate - slow and steady, with attention to detail. Keep up the good work. Steven

Thanks for the likes and kind comments. Mark, I find those magnifiers to be invaluable. They have three levels of magnification, but I almost always use the lowest level. You can get them from auto appliance stores or on-line. Yes, I carved all the figures - at 1:200 it was really pushing the outside of the envelope. I mostly use pear wood (because I've got a lot of it, thanks to neighbours' trees), but I've also tried apricot which is even better. I've never tried it, but the general consensus seems to be that box wood is the best for carving - extremely fine grain - almost like carving plastic. You can see the sequence in carving a figure at I hope that helps. Other people go about it differently - there are plenty of alternative methods - but I find this works for me. Regards, Steven

Thanks for the likes and comments, everyone. Here's me with the deadeyes and tackle for the bonaventure mizzen's lower stay. (OK, you can't see them, but they are there, trust me). Now for the shrouds. Fun and games all the way. First I made all the shroud/deadeye assemblies (8 of them) and glued the lower deadeyes into place - except for one assembly which somehow vanished into another dimension - I must have brushed it off with my sleeve - serves me right for leaving them on the tabletop instead of in a container. So I had to make another one. Surprisingly, the lost one didn't turn up as soon as I'd done this. Note that the bonaventure mizzen doesn't have channels, so I had to figure out a way of fixing the lower deadeyes to the hull itself. Fortunately, I'd run a rail along the inside of the bulwark, and the "chains" (really linen thread) fitted through the gaps between that and the upper ends of the frames. But trying to fix the shrouds at the top was a bit of an issue - they should have gone up through the lubber's hole and around the mast, but there just wasn't enough room to do it well, so when I got them through the lubber's hole I just glued them to the floor of the fighting top. Which opened up another can of worms - the top was just fixed to the mast with PVA (white) glue via a circular hole through the floor, so it it tipped over in various directions as I added the shrouds. I had to get fairly imaginative to get it straight, but it ended up ok. Then I was tensioning the shrouds when one of them had the lower deadeye pull out of its belaying point in the hull, so I had to push the thread back in place, which turned out to be very difficult indeed - it wouldn't go through, kept pulling out of place and just when I thought I had it fixed the tweezers turned out to be both sides of the mast so I couldn't close them . . . (I threw my magnifying headset on the floor - first time I've ever done it - and the language wasn't the kind of thing I'd have liked my grandmother to hear) - but I finally got it into place. THEN I discover that two of the shrouds are twisted around the adjoining ones, so I have to dissolve the glue holding the lower end in place, pull the shroud out, take it around the other shroud to fix the twist, thread the lower end back through the gap between the rail and the frame and then glue it back place. Like I said, fun and games. But now it all seems to be pretty good, and I'm ready to add the ratlines (sigh). Steven

Hi Peter, I can't believe it's been a year since your last post. I hope everything's going well for you and yours. Any progress on the carrack front? Best wishes, Steven

A very beautiful vessel. Steven

Bonjour et bienvenu, Drut. (Hello and welcome, Drut). Have you decided on a particular ship you want to build? Steven

Good to hear from you, Mark, and to know you're still on-track, if slightly diverted for the time being . . . Steven

Steven, I've missed your updates recently, and just stumbled upon your build again. She's looking amazing! I have nothing but respect for someone who can do what you can with sheet steel. In a similar tradition, in Sydney Harbour they have the mast of the first HMAS Sydney, which sank the Emden in 1914. It was put in place in 1934. The H.M.A.S. Sydney I Memorial Mast commemorates those who served in the Royal Australian Navy and those ships which were lost in service. On 26 June 2007 the Royal Australian Navy announced that a new naval tradition would commence that day requiring all Australian and foreign naval vessels proceeding into Sydney Harbour to render ceremonial honours to the HMAS Sydney I Memorial Mast. The ceremony consists of bringing the ship's company on the upper decks to attention, and then 'piping' the Mast. Steven

The bonaventure mizzen is now glued in place and the lower stay is being put in position. I have yet to pull the lanyards tight on the pair of blocks that tensions the stay. And I've added deadeyes to the lower bonaventure shrouds; when the glue dries I'll be able to join the pairs of deadeyes and put the shrouds in place. I've begun to attach the main halyard tackle (pendant?) to the capstan - just glued the nearest bit in place, and I'll gradually wrap it around so it looks like it's actually doing its job. And - FINALLY - I'm able to start work on attaching the yards and my beautiful hand-painted "cloth of gold" sails - starting with the forecourse - I've attached the halyards to the yard - still loosely for the time being; I yet have to get them positioned correctly to attach the yard to the (fake) parrel truck. It's interesting - ships of this period don't seem to have hauled their courses up very high - they are usually shown quite a long way below the tops. Steven