Louie da fly

Smile-n-Nod, thanks very much for this. I've downloaded it and now I'll have to spend time going through it with a fine-tooth comb. Wonderful stuff. Steven

I seem to recall the Gokstad ship's side rudder was attached by a withy (I was going to write "with a withy", but that just sounded silly . . .) Beautiful work as usual, Dick. I love the way you've solved the problems that go with such an adventurous speculative design. If the hulc was really built with reverse clinker as theorised, I imagine it would be very like this model ( but bigger, of course ) Steven

Thanks for all the likes. Druxey, currently the main problem is getting my head around how everything fits together, and that's just for the courses. SO many lines and blocks, and I'm just hoping I don't paint myself into a corner, forgetting to put something in at the right time and having to somehow squeeze it on later. Oh, well, back to Anderson again. I think the lifts are the next thing to look at. Pretty sure I've worked the halyards/tyes out. Steven

Cathead, I think what you've worked out is perhaps the very best possible arrangement, given the constraints you're working with. The stacking of the shields and the idea of "roping them in place" works very well. You can see the shields (otherwise all that work painting them would have gone to waste) but they get in the way as little as possible; it's definitely a practical way of arranging them without obstructing the working of the ship. I think you've got it! The bundles of spears look quite a bit better, as well. What particularly impresses me about this build is the added details - chests, barrels, shields, spears etc - that add so much realism to the look of the thing. One feels one could step on board and sail off across the Atlantic. I agree about "Vikings". I watched the first episode and was so disgusted by it that I never looked at it again. Haven't seen the other show so I can't comment on it. Ian, yes we do know that Viking shields had bosses. Just about every Viking shield find (and the Gokstad ship had shields all along both sides) has a boss - the only ones I know of that don't have a hole where the boss should be. And there have been many bosses found without the shield board, which has presumably rotted away. Also contemporary art shows round shields with bosses, both in a Viking context (rare), but also their contemporaries, the Franks and English had very similar shields - always with bosses. The boss was a hollow iron bowl, nailed or rivetted to the shield board over a hole on the centre into which the hand fitted. There was a handle across the hole for the hand to grip. Contemporary art shows the shields being held this way, not with arm straps. You can see diagrams of the way this worked at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html This is probably the best exposition for the layman of the state of knowledge regarding Viking shields. Peter and Christobel are friends of mine and have been re-enactors since about 1986. They are very hot on authenticity and they have put a tremendous amount of research into all kinds of aspects of Viking life - their re-enactment gear is amazing. Steven

That's beautiful work, Druxey (as usual). I've arrived late and only just seen this. Just amazing. Very impressed. Steven

I'm slowly getting into the rigging, mostly using as my guide Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, which, though it mainly deals with ships of 50-100 years later than mine, still has a lot of info that is relevant, and is often the only source apart from Mondfeld and contemporary illustrations. Sheesh! So much to learn. My brain hurts. But if I take it slowly, item by item I expect by the end of it I may have advanced from a state of utter confusion to one of relative ignorance. Here's Anderson's diagram of the rigging of the clew of the courses. And here is what I've done. From the top, clewline block, tack and sheet block. Note at 1:200 making actual blocks is basically impossible, so I've compromised with hearts which are simpler but carry out a similar function. This was really difficult to put together and for the next three course clews I'm thinking of working out a streamlined method which ends up with the same result. Steven

Don't load up on tools too soon. Many modellers get excellent results with a pretty basic set - I like to use a No. 11 blade scalpel or craft knife, LOTS of clamps of various sizes and types, you'll need tweezers, glue (I use white glue mostly but CA (super glue) to glue wood to metal). A drill (maybe a dremel). Probably I've missed quite a bit but others will be able to advise. Steven

Bonnets "stitched on". Actually I cheated - I glued the bonnets to the bottoms of the courses with a bit of overlap before I started stitching - I couldn't see any way otherwise that I could hold everything together as I stitched - I'm not all that good at sewing. And that's really not the way it was done back in the day, though it looks enough like it for the job at hand. Here is the main course with the bonnet attached and the sewing partly done, seen from behind. (The funny thing is the stitching seen from in front pretty much vanishes into the pattern painted on the sail. Almost feels like "All that work, and nothing to show for it"). Here are the two sails with bonnets seen from the front And from behind. You can see the join between the two lots of stitching on the main course, where I ran out of thread and had to start again with a new thread. I took the opportunity to start from the other end (so the end of the glued join between the course and the bonnet didn't come adrift just as I was getting to the end of the stitching). And here's a closer view of the stitching on the main course, seen from the front. I'm pretty happy with the consistency of the stitching - not perfect, but I think this is as good as I'm likely to be capable of. As a first attempt the forecourse was not too bad, but as I got better with the main course I'm considering re-doing it. The question is whether there's any point doing so. Are the inequalities in the stitching bad enough to warrant re-doing it, considering the back of the sail really won't be visible when the model is on display? Fortunately, those are the only two bonnets. Steven

Welcome to MSW, Laggard. I'd agree with the advice above, but I'd also highly recommend you start a build log for your model. The instructions are here - I think most people starting out get rather intimidated by the quality of work they see on other build logs and are a bit nervous about starting one of their own. Don't be. This forum covers the whole range of skill levels, from total newbie to the demi-gods of ship modelling. And a build log enables others to see how you're going and what you're doing, and give help and advice in getting the right result - and sometimes help you avoid going off on the wrong track. And you can ask questions of more experienced modellers about problems you encounter on your build (having a log gives you somewhere to post pictures of what your question is about). And don't worry about making mistakes. We all do it. The more experienced modellers just make more interesting and complicated ones (!). Don't expect your first model to be perfect - it won't be. But with a bit of patience and application you'll be able to make a model to be proud of. And the next one you make will be better. And have fun with it. That's what it's all about. Best wishes, Steven

It is harder than doing it the way the kit manufacturers recommend. I stuffed up royally the first time I tried it on my Great Harry - but with time and persistence (and removing planks and re-doing it a couple of times) I got there in the end. Not a perfect job, but it set me up to do a better job on my next model. Steven

Just found The Good Shepherd in a second-hand book shop and snapped it up. A very good read - really gets inside the head of the captain (who seems a bit like Hornblower with his self-doubts and pessimism - maybe Forester was like that himself?). I haven't seen the movie, and probably won't - it might spoil it for me. Regarding the A-M series, the atmosphere is brilliant and O'Brian's sailing scenes are very convincing. My own lack of maritime knowledge means I can't really criticise the accuracy of descriptions - but there is one thing that niggles. In several of the books he has Jack setting not only the spritsail (which, ok, was still just in use in Aubrey's time), but also a sprit topsail, which went out of use way before 1800. Like I said - it niggles, as everything else is so perfect. Steven

I wouldn't be putting the shields under the floorboards (apart from the fact that they'd be invisible) - water in the bilges would waterlog the shields, making them too heavy to wield, make the handles slippery, and cause the iron shield bosses to rust. That doesn't solve what to do with them, though. My own opinion is that they should be stored amidships, on the floorboards, but under the benches. That would leave space available for the oarsmen to row, and crew could stand on the benches to deal with the sails. Yes, there are tripping hazards if you do that, but sailors have dealt with much worse conditions at sea. Just my two cents worth (even if we no longer have two-cent pieces in Oz). Steven

Thanks, Mark. Still a lot to do - I've just been thinking about what I should do next. Probably attach the bonnets to the courses - fortunately the painting of the Santa Caterina do Monto Sinia shows the way they were laced. Though this pic is a bit lacking in detail, I have a better resolution picture in a book and it's pretty clear. Then I guess I'll attach the sails to the yards. I've made the sails a little wider than the yard to allow for some "bellying". Though using individual robands is the correct way to do it, back in the day I didn't know that, and I'm going to attach them the way I did in the original incarnation, with a single continuous thread lacing the sail to the yard. Then glue the mainmast in place (finally!) and add some deck furniture to the weather deck - the hatch cover and the longboat. I can't do that until the main mast is in place, because I have to be able to see through the hatch to make sure the mast fits into the mast step properly. Then main shrouds and upper shrouds to main and foremasts, stays and backstays, and do the same thing for the mizzen and bonaventure; and only then will I start putting the yards in place and add the running rigging. Oh, and lots of flags and banners. Once that's done, I suppose it'll be nearing completion. A bit hard to believe after all this time. Steven

I've added boltropes to all the sails And cut them out Foremast sails, including bonnet for the forecourse: And all the sails - from left to right; foremast and spritsail, main mast, mizzen (including lateen topsails!), bonaventure mizzen Unfortunately I stuffed up the bonnet for the main course - first I made it too shallow, then I cut it on the wrong line, so the join between the course and the bonnet was not square to the sail. Fortunately I was able to trim the course to size, but the bonnet had to be re-made: And here are all the sails with the new main bonnet. And I've done the wooldings for the main mast: And the foremast: Just need to trim free end from the the top woolding, and clean up the glue, which is a bit intrusive. Steven

Making good progress, ON. It takes a special kind of insanity to build a galley (don't ask me how I know). Steven

You've done a magnificent job, Bolin. She really looks beautiful.Truly a model to be proud of, and it has been a very enjoyable build to follow. Steven

Amazing that you have so closely duplicated the look of this ship Detail of the painting Expedition to the Third Islands 1583. Royal Monastery of El Escorial. Work of Granello, Tavarón, Castello and Cambiasso. without (apparently) having seen the picture. You've really captured this look which I've never seen in any other model. Steven

Hi Bob. I was hoping I wasn't coming across as nitpicking. I think what you've done so far is very good and if I could just nudge a little in the direction of better accuracy - in time to give you the option, rather than after it was too late - that's really all I was trying to do. Regarding messages, if you're using the system correctly (the pair of "speech balloons at the top of the page), the person addressed needs to notice that there's a message addressed to him/her (it comes up as a notification on their page) before they reply. They may not have been on MSW for quite some time, or just not look at the top of the page, or whatever . . . But most people do reply when they see the message. Steven

Welcome to MSW, Michael.That's a very nice-looking vessel - I have nothing but respect for people who build live-steam models. Do you have another project on the go? If you have, it'd be great if you started a build log. I'm sure a lot of people would like to see it. Steven

Bob, that's a very nice piece of work. I feel I ought to comment, though, that the planking layout recommended by the kit manufacturer isn't how it was done in the real world. Not suggesting you pull everything apart and start again, but as your model looks like a double-planked model, for your second layer of planking you might like to consider this link which goes through the steps of duplicating the planking layout used in actual practice. It is more complex than the way the kit manufacturer says to do it, and you may decide to stick with what you're already doing. That is totally ok. It's your model, and you have every right to do it however you wish. Just thought I'd let you know in case you feel it might be worthwhile. The vessels of this period are a favourite of mine, and I always love to see another one being built. Keep up the good work. Steven

Swords were highly valued (and expensive) personal items - each would been in its scabbard, carefully wrapped individually in (presumably) oilcloth, and probably in the personal possessions of the individual owners. Only a few high status warriors would have owned them. Axes (single and two-handed) would have been more common, with spears the most common of all. Though those wrapped spear shafts look good, they appear rather too thick? They wouldn't in real life been thicker than maybe an inch an a half or two inches. Otherwise they would be (a) too heavy and (b) too hard to get a good grip on. After all, they usually doubled as "javelins" in battle, so shouldn't be too heavy to throw. The shorter ones would be no less than 6 feet long (though personally I never liked using anything that short - it put you too much within reach of the opponents' swords and axes); the longer ones more like 9 feet. Everything else looks absolutely brilliant. I'm very impressed. The barrels, the open "scuttlebutt", the chests - all add verisimitude to the presentation. Regarding the (unspecific) oilcloth bundles, I think they look best with the rope around them. The shields are a problem. Stacked like that on the deck they'd slide over each other and be all over the ship, the moment you got into the ocean swell. There's just no information available on how they were stored if not at the sides of the ship. Maybe tie them down with a net? Or perhaps store them under the oar-benches - amidships (so they didn't get in the way of the oarsmen) ?

That's amazing, mate! You've achieved a hell of a lot in just a year, and it was certainly worth the time spent. This is perhps the most beautiful model of a Viking ship I've ever seen . Steven

A small point - I think your spellchecker "corrected" Warring to Warren in the title. Unless there was a Warren States period . . . Steven

Great news. The more models out there that aren't just the usual generic square-riggers, the better (not that I've got anything against them, but it's nice to see the currently rather narrow focus open up a bit.) Steven

Possible, but in my opinion it would be fairly easily possible to represent a square sail, even if somewhat too narrow, in the space available, without having to slant the yard as shown. It seems to me if it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. There has been a lot of academic discussion of the origin of the lateen sail - not only where it first appeared, but when. It was thought for a long time that the lateen originated among the arabs and appeared in the Mediterranean quite late, but there has now been quite a bit of evidence suggesting a much earlier, Mediterranean, origin for it. What is particularly unusual about this example is the clarity of the representation and the early date. The next earliest representation I'm aware of is the 5th century AD Kelenderis mosaic, which strictly speaking shows a settee rather than a lateen; But certainly the overwhelming majority of representations of ships from this period show a square sail and I'd be very surprised if the Sea of Galilee ship had anything else. Steven