Louie da fly

Ian, somebody's actually done it on MSW - see https://modelshipworld.com/topic/6207-greek-bireme-by-bensid54-radio-finished/page/16/ I think the rowing action on this one is particularly good. I don't know how it compares with what you had in mind, but Bensid explains his mechanism in some detail, and you might find this of use. (All W-A-A-A-Y over my head, I'm afraid). Steven

Welcome to MSW, Jeff! That sounds like a very interesting project. I built the Airfix Vasa about 50 years ago; I don't know if the kit has changed since then, but certainly a lot has been discovered about the ship itself in the interim. There are several wooden builds of the Vasa on MSW - if you use the search function (top right of this page) you should find them. Some are phenomenally good, and several incorporate a lot of the most up to date information on that beautiful ship, which may be of use to you. I'd recommend you start a build log and share your experiences with the rest of us. It's also a great way to get help and advice from the friendly and experienced builders here. Though you'll be doing a fair bit of scratch work on this, it probably qualifies best as a kit build - but bashed to make it better; something quite a few members do. The instructions are here: Good to have you with us. Steven

Welcome to MSW, Henry - from Oz, the land of the wombats. It would be good to see a build log of your HMS Fly, even if it started from your current stage of completion - though photos from earlier in the build would be even better. In case you haven't come across them so far, the instructions for starting a log are here: It's a great way to get help and encouragement (and the rest of us get to see the progress of your build). Good to have you on board. Steven

What a wonderful concept! I can think of a myriad of uses for insulting tape . . . All your ideas are inspiring, but i think mainly the problem would be the tight tolerances at such a small size - just not enough room to add another layer of something. I still think just soaking in oil might be the way to go at this size. I had great success with Gladwrap when I did the dromon, but that was of course much bigger. Steven

Thanks, Liteflight. I may still go with paper, my only concern is whether it's strong enough for the job. I finished the planking on the longboat: And then discovered the butter treatment wasn't adequate. The boat stuck to the plug and I had to rip it apart to get it off. Fortunately it mostly retained its shape, and all I really had to do was glue it back together again where needed. However, the strakes did lose some of their curve so the boat became considerably narrower. I fixed it by gluing in a temporary crosspiece - which might end up as a thwart, though I doubt it - it seems too big. I still have to add the frames, floorboards and thwarts, plus a triangular seat in the stern for the steersman, and those sort of cathead thingies in the bow, as shown on the boat in the Anthony Roll picture of the Great Harry (see above). Next time I do this kind of thing I may soak the plug in olive oil or something for a few hours, then wipe dry. I've done some investigation and transom-sterned ship's boats are about as common as double-ended ones in this period. The Embarkation at Dover shows double-ended boats with no steering oars, and steering can be done directly by the oarsmen, but for something of any size they really need to have a steersman. The majority of representations of double-ended ship's boats from this period show steering oars. Ordinances of Chivalry English, Late 15th century Morgan Library & Museum Bibliotheque National de France - MS Latin 6142 And a little more progress on the new crewman or whatever Steven

Happy to be of help. Steven

That's nice work, John. Yes, I can see a little more work is needed at bow and stern, but the planking (a very difficult task to get right) is very good and I'm sure you'll end up with something very attractive and worthwhile. Steven

As a reference in preparing your oars, you might be interested in this link, which I put together awhile ago. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25729-oars-on-ancient-greek-galleys/?tab=comments#comment-752090 It contains all the contemporary pictorial representations I know of, of ancient Greek oars.

I'm really enjoying following the research on this one. Looking forward to further progress! Steven

Wonderful work, Bolin. A pleasure to follow your progress! Steven

Not sure how strong they'd be if that's how the rudder is fixed to the ship.

I'm sending you a PM.

Thanks for the info and advice, Liteflight. 1. I used Gladwrap on the plug of my dromon with good results, but I felt the longboat was too tiny. I hope I don't regret it! 2. I'm fortunate that I'm pretty crap at using a drop-saw (the only tool available when I was cutting sheets from the the bit of walnut tree-trunk which the neighbour gave me when he cut down his dead tree). It meant that some 1mm sheets were 3mm thick, some 2mm, some 1mm, and some paper thin, which is what I'm using for the longboat planking. I now have a bench saw, but it's not yet installed in the re-vamped workshop, so I'll have to see if that works any better. 3. I think the final option would be the one And here's a bit of progress. More planks on the butter longboat. I've been using finger and thumb as "clamps" to fix the ends to the stem and sternpost. Just a bit of patience while the glue dries. I've added a stringer halfway up the aftercastle bulwark for belaying (about waist height or a bit above) - IIRC Mondfeld's book says such things as belaying pins, kevels etc may not have existed in the period we're talking about, and cleats at this scale would just be too small. Here's the rudder - rough cut out, and finished (took about 5 minutes). Now I have to work out what to make my pintles and gudgeons from. I'm leaning toward blackened paper, but I haven't yet made up my mind. I do have very thin aluminium, but paint scrapes off it very easily. Maybe I can rustle up some brass shim. And first moves on another figure to go on deck. He's shorter than Henry - only 8.4mm instead of 9.4mm. Steven

Yes, when no other clamps will do the job, the "Five finger" clamps and a little patience (reading, watching tv) seem to work best. Having got to the stage where nothing else works, not even my tiny clothespegs, I'm currently using that technique on the planking of the longboat for my Henry Grace a Dieu, where the planks join the stem and sternposts. Time consuming, but it works. Steven

Maybe - I dunno. It doesn't seem to be on the footage.

Yes, that looks really good. It's nice once you've worked out all the problems and are able to get an assembly line going. Can get a bit boring after awhile, but with only 17 more to go you shouldn't suffer too much. I'm glad the memorial service went off ok. Best wishes, Steven

Hi David, and welcome to MSW. What you've done so far looks really good. Take it slow and carefully - you seem to be doing that already - and you'll end up with something to be really proud of. Good to see you're planning a build log. I'd recommend you start sooner rather than later - I know it can sometimes be a bit daunting putting one's efforts up for all to see, but the people here are very helpful and supportive, and can often give help and advice that will help you overcome the problems all modelmakers encounter at some stage or another. Oh, and we get to see your model taking shape! In case you haven't already come across them, the instructions for starting your build log are here: Good to have you on board! Steven

Hi and welcome to MSW, Dennis. Good to see you're planning to start a build log for your model. In case you haven't already come across them, the instructions for doing so are here: Good to have you aboard. Steven

Welcome to MSW, Sigmadog! I'd like to second Mark's recommendation that you start a build log. It's a great way to get help and advice, and we get to see your build taking shape. The instructions are here: You will make mistakes - that's inevitable. But each mistake is a learning experience, preparing you for a better model next time you build. And nobody makes the perfect model or fails to make mistakes, even the most experienced modeller. They just make more ambitious mistakes! Good to have you aboard. Steven

Same here. How do you stand in the ship's "hull" to keep your footprints from interfering with what's already been excavated? Steven

Though this video is ostensibly about the sword found at Sutton Hoo, the footage of the excavation is fascinating. None of the timber survived - they figured out the shape of the ship, frames, planking and nails by following the discoloration in the sand of the burial mound. How's that for careful work! Steven

Welcome back, Darren. That's quite a collection you've got there! I note that you're just down the road from me. Maybe we could get together and talk ship modelling at some point. Steven

Could be - I dunno. But I might make use of the phenomenon if I need to . .

Some more work - I decided the starboard main channel could still be salvaged if I inserted a sliver of wood in the gap: I've glued on the new port main channel to replace the one that was lost. And I've glued back the piece of the port side fore channel that broke off sometime in the past (I'll tidy up the glue once it's set): And I bit the bullet with the longboat, pulled off all the planks and split them in half lengthways to make them narrower, so they follow the hull shape better and are more correct to 1:200 scale. And started putting them back on. Very difficult to clamp these - there's really nothing for the clamps to "bite" on, so most of the time I hold the ends of the planks between finger and thumb till the glue dries - not easy; keeps slipping out of my hand. Something I found very interesting, which might be occasionally of help when working with thin wood - rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol/isopropanol), which I use to dissolve PVA (white) glue, also seems to soften wood! I wouldn't recommend it as a standard technique (apart from anything else, the fumes aren't good for you, the usual ways of bending wood are perfectly adequate, and I don't know what the long term effects on the wood will be). But if you are trying to bend some thin wood into a very tight curve, it might help. Steven

Happy to help. Here's an example of the results on my Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) restoration. Just a patch on the forecastle cleaned, the rest as it was when I started to restore her. So it does work. "Mild enzymatic solution", eh? I might use that in future . . .