BANYAN

Hi Greg, just caught up with your latest effort - Impressed! Some great detail and a lovely model. I too am just in the final throes of a 10year Endeavour build, and lining up a 1:350 build of HMAS Vampire so you log has provided some great ideas. cheers Pat

Thanks Druxey, your input is most welcomed and appreciated. I had poked around the photos shown in Navy Board Models by Franklin and the predominant pattern is as you have suggested; but, as you indicated, there are some instances where the alternate options have been used also. I will have a good look through the NMM models next. I have also looked at some photos of the replica, and apart from the bottom 6 ratlines, the remainder span the full width of the shrouds - basically, as Lees has suggested for ships between 1733 and 1773. I think your suggestion, or the Lees suggested pattern, may be the way to go. Thanks all for looking in - any further evidence to support one way or the other will be much appreciated.

Thanks for the feedback Mike; I have still a ways to go for research, but if you read the following you can see that it is confusing and I don't think there is really a wrong solution? The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of 1625-1860 by James Lees Page 42 - A Swifter was not always rigged and usually refers instead to the after shroud; where there was an odd number of shrouds, the after one was called a swifter. There was nothing unusual in this shroud except that the upper end was fitted at the masthead by means of a eye-splice, the lower being secured exactly the same as other shrouds. Page 43 - Ratlines were spaced 13 to 15 inches apart and had an eye spliced in one end through which they were seized to the fore shroud. The other end was clove-hitched around each shroud in turn and had an eye spliced in the end which was seized to the second shroud from aft, counting the swifter as a shroud. About every sixth ratline was taken to the swifter or aftermost shroud on some ships. On some ships between 1733 and 1773 the first six ratlines started from the second shroud from forward, the rest of the ratlines being rigged as before. After 1773 the first six ratlines and the upper six ratlines started from the second shroud from forward, and finished at the second shroud from after; the remainder covered all shrouds. The Young Sea Officer’s Sheet Anchor by Darcy Lever Page 25 - The ratlines are made fast to the shrouds, in the following manner. An eye is spliced in one end, which is seized to the foremost shroud: the remaining part is made fast round the shrouds, with clove-hitches; and an eye spliced in the other end, it is seized as before to the shroud. 18th Century Rigs and Rigging by Karl Heinz Marquardt Page 61 – A single shroud was usually named a 'swifter', and on English warships it was set up after the shroud pairs, with an eye-splice over the masthead. On French men of war, and on English merchantman, it was the foremost shroud, combined with the smaller mast tackle pendant. Falconer referred to a swifter as that providing additional support to the mast, and suggested that they were not confined by catharpins, otherwise they were set up exactly like shrouds. Roding suggested that a swifter were used as a preventer shroud. Page 63- Ratlines running across the shrouds like the rungs on a ladder, began 13 inches below the futtock staves and were set a distance of 14 inches apart. They were fastened to each shroud with a clove-hitch, except that the ends, where an eye was spliced in, and seized to the shroud. The measurements quoted for the distance between ratlines varied greatly from one author to another. Steel noted 13 inches, Lever 12, Anderson 15 to 16, and Boudroit 13 to 14 inches. In view of the extra effort required from a sailor in running up ratlines which were widely spaced, a distance greater than Steel’s 13 inches seems unlikely. Ratlines did not always run across all shrouds. Illustrations of French ships show the foremost and aftermost shrouds omitted, or only every sixth ratline (that is, ratline’s 2 m apart) running across all shrouds. Boudroit noted that the foremost shroud (and sometimes also the second) was not rattled, but his drawings indicated that ratline is normally ran to the aft most shrouds. On Continental and English ships it can be seen that the foremost shrouds were normally rattled, but the aftermost shrouds were reached only by every sixth ratline. After 1730 the last six ratlines on English vessels tended to omit the foremost shroud, and in the last quarter of the 18th century in the lower North the upper six ratline’s extended to the foremost or the aft most shroud. All other parts of the shrouds were fully rattled. Falconer noted in 1769 that all shrouds were rattled down without exception, and Lever confirm this. Captain Cook’s Endeavour Revised Edition by Karl Heinz Marquardt Page 95 - Illustration H1 The illustration shows the foremast and mainmast shrouds rigged with ratlines starting at the foremost or leading shroud, and only every sixth ratline extending to the aftermost shroud. The mizzen shrouds are rattled all the way across. Falconer’s New Universal Dictionary of the Marine 1815 edition Page 386 - Ratlines or rattling, are small lines, which traverse the shrouds of a ship horizontally, at regular distances from the deck upwards, and forming a variety of ladders, whereby to climb or to descend from any of the mastheads. To rattle down the shrouds, is to fix the ratlines to them, in order to prevent them from slipping down by the weight of the sailors: they are firmly attached by a knot called a clove-hitch, to all the shrouds except the foremost or aft most; where one of the ends being fitted with an eye-splice, is previously fastened with twine packthread. H.M. Bark Endeavour by Ray Parkin Page 36 - Illustration An illustration depicting the standing rigging in which only the lower six ratlines are shown foreshortened. The lower six ratlines for the foremast and mainmast are drawn with the ratlines starting at the foremost shroud and terminating at the second from last shroud. All the remaining ratlines, including the mizzen mast, are rattled all the way across. So which interpretation is correct? Some of these descriptions even contradict each other. Wayne: I could not find any further reference in Steel (the version I have anyway) or other than what I have cited for Lever - if anyone can add to these it would be greatly appreciated. cheers Pat

Hi Mike looking really good mate, well and truly on the homeward stretch now! What ratline sequence/pattern did you use? The various rigging books/authorities are not clear on this for our period and Karl M does not validate his depiction. Could you have a look at my post in the Masting and Rigging forum if you have time please: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11339-ratline-sequence/#entry346203 Cheers Pat

Thanks Wayne, I'll take a look at Falconer also, and hopefully Robin will look in cheers Pat

Hi folks, I am just starting the 'rattlin down' of my HMB Endeavour (Scale 1:60) and am a little confused with the various authorities in how these should be rigged. The following depicts several possible options of interpreting what Lees, Steele, Lever and others have described but not illustrated. Which would be the correct sequence noting it is a English ship, rigged Naval style (even though a collier) for the year circa 1768. I am reasonably sure (but stand to be corrected) that Endeavour did not carry Swifters, so I am assuming Option 2 is incorrect? Any guidance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. cheers Pat

Good luck with the Op Dave; all going well you will be back with greater flexibility and producing even nicer stuff cheers Pat

Nice progress Dave cheers Pat

Sometimes the modelling gods have a mischievous sense of humour Dan; glad you found it in time. cheers Pat

Rather than lifting or manipulating, could these have been for attaching emergency steering ropes? Pat

Quite an accomplishment Danny; a model to be very proud of. cheers Pat

Those ratlines look excellent Mike; great work - a nice even dip across them all. cheers Pat

Very nice work Steve. I will be doing this very soon - I have temporarily fixed to an eyebolt as it was easier to do a couple of other tasks; now I have something to aspire to cheers Pat

Excellent work Danny - looks great! Despite the small hiccups you've had enough practice to set your sights on a real one now cheers Pat

Hi Dave, I agree with Steve. It's hard to argue with primary evidence/information cheers Pat

Nice upgrade Tad; any problems with dust collecting in the box as I don't see any vacuum ports? cheers Pat

Different type of sharp indeed Ulisis; it works with a burr created on the edge rather than a V/knife type blade sharp You need to ensure you maintain the burr just as you hone a knife etc. there are burring tools you can purchase; but perhaps the more experienced may be able to suggest a 'home grown' solution to this? Happy scraping - cheers Pat

May have taken a while mate, but the result is worth it - well done! I use scrapers but have learned one valuable lesson. They leave a great finish but watch the corners of the scrapers. I didn't and in my eagerness got to aggressive with the scraping and the corners left some score marks. Check you are using the right shape and size such that in concave hollows the edges/corners do not score the wood I also use single edged razors and glass for scraping. cheers Pat

That's some very nice smithing mate - a great result and they look the real deal! What is that red stuff evident in some photos? cheers Pat

Hi Steve, like you I have been careful to stay to scale. The upper shrouds are only 0.25mm I think (need to check when I get home), but after serving with the thinnest cotton I could get, it takes them to close to 0.5mm. The holes are 0.6mm but every effort to get a served line through causes damage There is only about .025mm meat around the holes so I daren't ream them out much bigger (I will recheck scale of the trestles). I am obviously doing something wrong so will have to live with it They're done now without those tiny servings and look OK (only a few of us know they are missing ) If I start to feel too guilty about them I can come back and do them without losing much work/effort as the rattlin has not been done yet. cheers Pat

Looking good, nice and neat mate! Did you see this post from Steve (Hornet) http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10730-endeavour-shrouds-ratlines-moved-by-admin/ (post #12) For the topgallant shrouds I have followed the replica (photo from Steve) which shows the shrouds are served where they wrap around the mast and also at the points where they pass through the trestles. Due to the limited size of holes I could make in the ends, I did not do the servings where they pass through the trestles as I could not get them to fit cheers Pat

Looking very much the speedy lady John, nicely done! cheers Pat

That's a very nicely constructed anchor Danny. How did you achieve such a good finish with the puddening of the ring as that is difficult to do mate. cheers Pat

Having used Jim's tools for a while now I would agree Danny's suggestions and add: Saw: Include a vertical feather board to fit to the fence. Easy enough to make the board but the fitting can be problematic (well at least for me). Thicknesser: Fitting some form of minimum thickness control to reliably thickness to the exact same thickness repeatably without having to resort to manual micro measure between passes and hoping you do not exceed? Maybe a similar device as seen on some bench drills? or, an adjustable screw rod with thumbwheel on top of the plate (between body and plate) as a stop? Drawplate: If re-etching perhaps add "Top" or some wording to indicate the direction the stock should be passed ( I learned the hard way ) cheers Pat