mtaylor

Interestingly, I found some info in Boudroit's The 74-gun Ship. Anytime the guns were being exercised or powder being loaded to the magazine, all hands went barefoot. The reasons fit the anectodal "the gunners were barefoot and stripped to the waist". No shirts due to heat and also catching the shirt on things. Barefoot because any powder grains stepped on with shoes could ignite. Then there's the wet deck issues...

Druxey, Hahn was an artist. I wish I could come close to his works. I'm aware of the stylizing and in many cases, I think it was either bad info or no info. What I'm seeing on this ship is a lack of info and the info I'm seeing is from sources after Hahn's time. Tim, Admiralty model may not be bad idea. There's tables in Boudroit's History of the French Frigate that would help with the masting. If you know what Regulation it falls under (and wasn't being used as a test) you can figure out the size of the masts and yards. Then go for the rig... As I understand it, each ship was slightly different in some areas but overall, it was pretty much standardized. So you could use one of the ANCRE monographs (base it on the year it was built) and rig it accordingly. These ships are fascinating to me because they are different. Or at least infrequently built. The biggest problem I see is acquiring sufficient plans. The French did wonderful lines drawings and the drawings for the carvings and decorations. Deck layouts and interior works are tough to find as they didn't often do them. What the French lacked in drawings they made up for in design and the way they built them. The "surveyor" or head designer at a given yard, was trained in math, physics and the science (what was known at that time) of ships. They could calculate the load waterline pretty close just based on their design. Even the wood was acquired differently as well as the labor in the yards. Reading the History of French Frigates and the 74 Gun Ship series really brought this home. Anyway.. I'm wandering all over the place on this topic... apologies.

Beautiful work, Michael. BTW, I think you should give a go for the Watchmaker's Society.

Beautiful planking, John. Just beautiful.

Clever use for the shell casings. I like it and they look great.

Good question. I don't think there's a definitive answer though... I read a couple of accounts where the men had their shoes on for inspection, rum ration, meals. But then they turn around and when preparing for battle, shirts came off and so did shoes but this was only the gun crews below decks. It may have to do with the heat of the guns, and not (perception?) slipping on a wet or bloody gun deck. The grating spacing on holes was choosen as being the least likely for a man to wedge his heel (shoe) into the hole while still providing maximum airflow. These were leather soles and shoes cost the sailor money. Not sure of prices. So there's probably some reality and some myth in play here. How much, though I can't say. Let's see what others say. Are these contemporary illustrations?

Tim If you have it, take a look at Belle-Poule... it was 12-pdr of that period. What plan are they using for the replica? I'm glad you like it. This more or less just thinking out loud. I get pointed in directions sometimes and it does help. Feel free to ask questions yourself. Those of us building the French vessels have precious few resources at our disposal and sharing what we have is a good thing.

I've been doing a lot of reading of late and researching my build so I thought I share what I've found out. I have more questions than answers but that's probably to be expected. Hahn and sometimes Frolich speak of "capturing a moment in time". Which is fine but I'm building a model of a ship, not a moment in it's life. So that gives me some latitude I hope. My reference works currently are the monographs for Belle Poule and Le Renommée along with Boudroit's History of the French Frigate 1650-1850 and some emails from the Museum of the Marine in France. Seems that record keeping wasn't one of the French strongpoints during the 1700's plus WWII destroyed much. Here's some points, and some research and I'm open to any comments, critiques, etc. on this: The deck cabins. On the 8-pdr frigates, these were built for the comfort of the officers. While it appears that they were removed in wartime, and even banished at some point, they were in pretty much continual use on the 8-pdr's. I'm not planning on putting them on as I agree with Boudroit in that they are ugly. Oh.. and by definition, these were normally called "roundhouses" because originally, there was space between the cabin(s) and the bulwarks thus, the crew when working the lines could walk "around them". The Great Cabin. This has caused me some consternation. On the 8-pdrs, this wasn't the domain of the Captain. He had (in peacetime) one of the roundhouses on the quarterdeck. The bulwarks were not paneled nor was the deck anything different than the rest of the deck. On the bigger frigates, it was a different story as this was the Captain's domain. On the 8-pdrs it was the wardroom for all the officers. With some canvas walls put up for the first officer and master to have private sleeping space. During the day, the Captain had a place for his work. During peacetime, the last two guns were removed and lights with glazing covered those ports. I'll be following the decking plan and bulwark planking... nothing special. Just a bench along the transom area except for where the two ports were. Which brings me to the ports. On the 8-pdrs, there were two ports but not gunports as on the larger frigates. These were too low for that and appear to be for air and probably loading or unloading supplies at etc. There are two more ports above the lower ports that may have been or planned for use at chase ports, but due to the counter, it would appear that cannon would have needed to be discharged well inside of the stern framing so these ports appear to be pretty useless. Stern decorations. On the Licorne, as built had a large unicorn head. After the great rebuild (I still have no idea when that was or where it took place), the shape changed as did the decorations. The NMM prints indicate the arms of France were above the stern lights and I have several examples. Based on the timeframe, those used on the Belle Poule seem to be the ones to be used. Hahn used Le Venus as a refence point but she was built after Licorne was captured. Stern Lantern. Definitely needs to have one. Rudder. The turbulence groove should be there so I'll put one in. Quarter galleries.. ah this one had me going. She was built with the galleries like Le Renommée but at the time of capture had galleries similar to Belle Poule. Boudroit says that the lights were deadlights and the only glazing was the center frame of the center light. I'm still checking. They were fully glazed on the larger frigates... hmm.... Gundeck and Quarterdeck. The as-captured drawings indicate that there were thicker planks used along side and between the hatches. The cross-sections for Licorne is unclear about this. However, all the 8-pdr drawings I could find show the deck completely flush but with the hatch coamings higher much like what we see in English ships. The 8-pdrs did have a thicker and wider plank running outside the coamings but it was let into the beams and flush with the deck surface. Bow area.. I'm following the method I mentioned earlier with picture about planking to prevent anchor damage. There is a cowl (for lack of a better term) on the forecastle. It could be a companionway but there's no ladder for it. I'm still sorting this out but no other frigate plan from this tmeframe has this feature. It also appears that the majority of 8-pdr frigates did not have bolsters at the hawse ports. Carvings. I've think Hahn got the carvings on the catheads wrong. I'm pretty sure, right now, that it's not leaves but for lack of a better term, the whirly-thingie. The head rails should be more elaborate than what Hahn used. He appears to have used the English style which are a bit plainer. Armament. This is area of confusion. There's two regulations for guns. One in 1750 and one in 1766. The biggest difference is in length with the 1766 being shorter. Thus, I can assume she was armed with the regulation guns of 1750. After a great rebuild, would she have been re-armed with the newer guns? I'm thinking not as the newer, bigger frigates probably would have received them. Rigging. Interesting bits here... she has the masting and yardarm dimensions of Le Venus. Yet Le Venus was built long after her capture. There was a period of changes and experimentation and I think Licorne was one that had some of this type work done. I've seen the sailing reports from the launch but not any after. The rigging itself will follow the plan of Belle Poule as that seems to be more right than any other. But I'm still seeking information. Minor (maybe not so minor) detail. The French used iron knees on the 8-pdr frigate which made me raise my eyebrows. Thanks for listening (or reading actually) my ramble...

Yes, the sounds of silence. Sometimes good, sometimes not so good. I like the way you did those nameplates and the decorations. They came out looking super nice.

Beautiful metal work, Rekon. I'm not believing my eyes.... forelocks on the eyebolts....????

Ah... blew it... back to my hole.

I'm going to offer one overview reference... be a bit cautious as sometimes the author gets it wrong but it is a great starting reference book... Historic Ship Models by Wolfram zu Mondfeld. He covers all aspects and it's somewhat preachy in places and there's holes in others. But he covers much ground. Copies are available in all the usual places (Google is your friend for finding it) at prices ranging from very cheap to very expensive.

Have a look here for planking schemes: http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

Wonderful lights, Popeye... very ingenious.

Welcome to MSW... Resources.... well for starters: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/45-book-and-magazine-reviews-and-downloads-questions-and-discussions-for-books-and-pubs/ and theres museums: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/43-nautical-research-guild-news-model-ship-clubs-and-exhibitions-and-events-museums-and-museum-ships/ Then there's MSW..... We're diverse enough that probably most questions can be answered or at least get you pointed to the right place.

At that extreme, you'll be blowing off parts of your railing and bulwark.... I think the front of the carriage was actually at the port/bulwark and not set back as far as you have it. Still... radius is limited by the port opening.

Do the spraying and shaping before. Otherwise you'll end up with overspray where you don't want it.

Beautiful work, Mobbsie. I love the coloring of the woods.

Different builder use different substances for this. Such as: starch, hairspray, matt finish paint, and white glue (dries clear) mixed with water. Test and figure out what works for you including the shaping method.

Hmm.. I thought brass was polished unless it was painted for other reasons. Being in the Marines, if it was brass.. it was polished. Otherwise paint it or salute it. Though I do remember a second lieutenant who got painted and saluted....

Tom, Go have a look at my Constellation build. No text as the original was lost in the "Great Crash" but there's some pics of how I did the galleries. It might help. I used balsa as my form. Once shaped a bit of glue/water made it hard enough to work with...

Beautifully done. I love that stern.

Alan, Mistakes go with the territory. Have a look here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/814-how-i-fix-boo-boos-and-oopsies-mistakes-by-dan-vadas-share-your-own-fixes-here/ Danny set the tone.... we all screw up. That one thread did a heckuva lot for my mental state as well as Remco's tagline: "Treat each part as if it is a model on its own, you will finish more models in a day than others do in a lifetime."

Well done on the torp tubes. I guessing that painting is in their future? Although the brass looks nice.... hmm... paint it or polish it.. the Navy dilemma.

The decals make it pop... What Frank said goes for me too.