Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River

[captainbob]

The number of boilers had to do with the size of the boat.  The Shawnee at 100 feet long had only two boilers, where as the Sultana was 260 feet long and had four. The Bertrand was 161 feet long. On the other hand a lot of the riverboat builders installed salvaged boilers, engines and pumps.  So nothing was absolutely defined.

 

Bob

[Cathead]

Ironwork from steamboat wrecks was routinely salvaged, and indeed boilers, engines, and more were re-used on multiple boats. Bertrand's own machinery wasn't original, but was salvaged from another wreck and installed on the newly-built Bertrand.

 

I went back and re-read the academic papers by Dr Crisman dealing with Heroine's excavation, and they did not directly explain the 4-boiler count, other than citing an earlier reference to general practice of the time. However, there's an interesting comparison to be made with reference to my earlier guess about boiler numbers being related to the support structures. Nowhere in the Heroine papers could I find a direct reference to the WIDTH of the boiler supports, though they are described in general. The area of Heroine's hull where the boilers sat was the most damaged, and didn't have any decking remaining to preserve more evidence.

 

On the other hand, the Bertrand wreck did have the boiler-area deck intact, with special cross-timbers and decking in place to support the boilers, so we know for sure how wide that area was: about 10'. That's pretty narrow for a hull that was about 34' wide, not including the guards. As far as I know most steamboat boilers were around 3' in diameter (the papers state that Heroine's were 34"); that means Bertrand couldn't have had more than three boilers, and 2 seems more likely to accommodate the rest of the boiler structure. In comparison, Heroine is a much narrower boat, with a hull width of only around 20' (judging from the published diagrams), so four 34" boilers would have taken up 12'-14' of the total 20' hull width (though she also had guards). I believe Arabia's hull was about 30' wide, and we know she had 3 boilers. Finally, for whatever it's worth, Heroine is especially thin compared to later boats; her hull appears to be about 140' long though only 20' wide, compared to Bertrand's 161'x34'. 

 

This does NOT mean we should jump to conclusions about Heroine's boilers; there's no rule (to my knowledge) saying the boilers on a steamboat should be X% of the total hull width, and Heroine was built very early in the creative process of developing western riverboats, while Bertrand was built over 30 years later in a relatively more standardized age. But it is interesting to consider if/why Heroine had such a large boiler capacity for a small, one-engine boat compared to larger craft like Bertrand or Arabia, and I wonder if she turned out to be at all top-heavy given all that heavy power plant on such a narrow hull. 

 

I don't want to derail Glenn's build log into a longer discussion of other boats, so in general we should direct discussion of the Bertrand to my log instead. But in this case I think the comparison is interesting; I'm really interested in Glenn's thoughts or corrections on my guesswork here.

[druxey]

Speaking of comparisons, do we have any evidence of the average speed of Heroine compared to other early steamboats? Could one extrapolate the possible number of boilers relative to the size of engine and of other known boats? Or is total boiler volume completely independent of the engine's output capacity?

[michael mott]

The steam engines power output being dependent on the volume of steam, would also be dependent on the size of the firebox area to generate the steam which is hottest at the fire and the crown sheet, or in the case of a marine boiler like this one the ability of the hot flue gasses to transfer the heat as efficiently as possible without all the heat going up the stack.  More boilers would also create more steam. A larger capacity of steam would allow for the engine to run faster.

A fast fire is not necessarily the hottest so some dampening on the vents and stack to slow the flue gasses would also allow more steam to be generated. a constant trade off would also depend on the wood being burned, Drier the hotter it would burn. 

Seems counter intuitive but but I heat with wood and a fast fire does not put out as much heat it seems as a slow one does. 

 

Michael 

[ggrieco]

Hello everybody,

 

I left town this morning to visit the in-laws and just got home to find all this good info. First of all, thank you Cathead for mentioning the correct diameter of the cylinders as 34". In autoCAD I work with radii instead of diameters. I was thinking 2 x 17" is 34" but typed 37" by mistake in an earlier post. Secondly, I'm coming around to the idea of fewer boilers. I think the most convincing evidence as Cathead pointed out is that we only have one engine. As druxey pointed out, we have very little to work with and in a way, that gives me a little freedom. I agree that four boilers seems extreme and I' m leaning toward just two. Fortunately, the drive train is well represented and will take me some time to complete so I have some time to look for more evidence and discuss it with Kevin before committing to anything. I want to thank you Cathead for bringing this up and possibly preventing me from making a pretty big mistake.

Edited December 21, 2015 by ggrieco

[druxey]

Another factor would be the cost of two versus four boilers. I'm certain that economics also come into the equation!

[kris83]

hello

i got this superb photo for 2 or 3 years  in black and white but don't know how to join it...

 

chris 83   FRANCE

[wyz]

Merry Christmas Glenn!  Your build log was a beautiful gift to the MSW followers this past year.  Thank you.  I hope in the new year you are happy, healthy, prosperous, and make great strides toward finishing this incredible model.

 

Tom

[bear]

If you want to see another set of boilers from the 1860's try the Vicksburg display of the Ironclad Cairo that is now on display. They have the boilers in the City Class Ironclad on display with the other recovered parts set up .

 

Keith

[bear]

The sad thing about the recovery of the Cairo is that it was complete when they discovered it back in the early 1960's but idiots tried to raise it out of the river without getting all of the silt and mud out of the hull and casemate before lifting it with a crane.The cables that they had around it tore it apart and it fell back into the river.

 

Reading the book about how they mishandled it's recovery still makes me sick.Then what they recovered wasted away while they tried to find money to take care of what they had. All the wood rotted and warped beyond repair. Just like the crime that's happening now with all of the naval ships on display like the USS Olympia. So much for taking care of our history. ISIS would be proud of what we are not doing to save it right now. 

 

It's too bad that Zukkerburg and Gates do not put a small amount of their money into saving some of what made it possible for them to be able to have done later in time.

 

At least the Cairo has been displayed in it's present form for all of us. Its great to walk inside and around it in person. I did back 20 years ago.

And measured deatils to latter build a model of it. I measured all the armor plates and rail road rails that were used for armor.

 

Keith

[Canute]

Keith, they seem to have done a better job in recovering parts of USS Monitor and working diligently to preserve what they've brought up already. Same for CSS Hunley. Some other wrecks, like CSS Neuse, weren't so lucky, either. The perils of well meaning amateurs.

[Cathead]

Cairo was an ironclad gunboat, so it stands to reason she'd need more power than a lightly-built riverboat intended for speedy passage of cargo and passengers.  

 

I've visited Cairo at Vicksburg, it's a real treat to walk up to and around in person.

[ggrieco]

Thanks Tom,

 

Merry Christmas to you and everyone else that has been following and contributing.  I'm sorry that I haven't been more involved, the holidays have kept me away from the computer and I will be away for the better part of this next week.  I just wanted to thank everyone for the info and I am really looking forward to getting back into the lab next week to work on the flywheels and paddlewheels.  Yes  Keith and avsjerome2003,  the Cairo was of interest to me and I copied the safety vavles for Heroine but as you point out, it must have put out a lot of power.  I haven't had a chance to discuss it with Kevin but, I'm now leaning toward two boilers for Heroine.  The attached photo is from Ft. Gadsen in Florida.  The Paddlewheel flanges in the photo are almost exactly what we recovered from the Heroine.  The drive train seems comparable to Heroines except for the lack of a flywheel and throw-out bearings.  The vessel was a sidewheeler with paddlewheels approximately the size of Heroine's.  I think this might be good evidence that Heroine only had two.

 

 

 

I hope everyone has a wonderful New Year!

 

Glenn

[druxey]

That is a very strong argument for two boilers, Glenn! I hope that you and your family had a great Christmas and wishing you a happy and healthy New Year.

[ggrieco]

Hello,

 

I hope everyone had a great New Years!  I spent the last week playing catch-up after taking some time off with the family.

 

The rest of the machinery requires some of the deck to be in place so that took up most of my time this last week.  Heroine's planking isn't pretty!  The widths of her planking range from 3" up to 15" and there is very little pattern to it.  In the stern, the port side planking ranges from 6 to 10 inches and the corresponding area to starboard is made up of 3 to 6 inch planking.  Although some of it is repairs,  some of it looks like they ran out of the wide planks quickly and made due with whatever they had.

 

 

Guard planking completed.  Kevin discovered the remains of black paint on the hull timbers and the guard cap.  He believes the Upper works were white with black trim.

 

 

 

 

 

Starting to add deck planking.  One of Heroine's cam frames in back for scale.

 

 

This cam frame was in the bow compartment as a spare.  It was late coming out of conservation and I haven't had time to model it in AutoCAD for machining.  That will be my first task for next week.

 

Close up of repair to cam frame.

 

Close up of wedge in one arm of the cam frame.  It appears that when the splint was riveted to the frame there was still some play so they drove this wedge in.

[druxey]

Interesting kludge on the cam frame! Your note about available widths of deck planking is interesting as well, Glenn. And your work is impeccable, as usual.

[Cathead]

I love the crisp, professional style of both wood and metal work in this build. 

 

Question: How were the hull and deck planks attached, and do you plan to simulate that in any way?

 

As for the uneven planking widths, you see the same thing in drawings of Bertrand. Builders pretty clearly just used whatever they could find and afford.

 

Thanks for the update, I've been looking forward to your return. Happy New Year!

[captainbob]

I'm sure when building the fancy steamers that carried passengers up and down the Mississippi they used matching deck planks along with all the rest of the gingerbread.  On the other hand they did not put a lot of money into building the work boats because they had a short life span.

 

Bob

[ggrieco]

Hello druxey, Cathead, and Bob,

 

It's good to hear from you again and I wish you the best for the New Year!

 

Druxey,  I was trying to come up for a term for the splint on the cam frame.  I have to admit I had to google the word kludge  -- you nailed it.  It is a term that I will have to add to my vocabulary when speaking of Heroine.  I think the term can accurately be applied to just about every repair on Heroine.  Heroine is a tribute to the ingenuity of her crew but I have no idea how she continued to operate with many of the repairs.

 

Cathead,  The hull planking was fastened with round headed spikes with about 3/4 inch heads.  The deck planking was fastened with large nails, two per plank per beam.  I have some wonderful drawings showing the locations of all the deck nails but have yet to find info on the size or shape of the heads.  Kevin will be returning from a conference on Monday and I'll get that info from him.  As to how I am going to simulate it, I'm still not sure.  If the heads were large enough, I'll probably use brass wire.  Looking at a large section of deck that was recovered from the wreck, the nails are almost invisible from a few feet away so I wouldn't want them to be too obvious.  I think I am going to use a darker wash on the exposed wood to give it an aged look and I was toying with the idea of using a pin or fine punch to simulate the  nail heads.  The wash would make the pattern stand out.

[Jim Lad]

She's sure looking the 'cat's pyjamas', mate!

 

John

[ggrieco]

The deck planking is slowly going in.  It's amazing how many 4 inch wide planks it takes to cover a significant part of the deck.  Between strakes, I finally had a chance to get back to the machinery.  I was able to finish the cam frames and start on the flywheel shafts.

 

Cam frame parts fresh from the mill.

 

 

The five frames in the back show the steps in shaping and finishing the cam frame.  The middle frame on the bottom row has the pivot cut off.  The aft frames are not connected to the valves so it is not needed.  I have been debating on whether to include the repair on one of the frames.  Since it was found in the hold as a spare, It wouldn't be accurate to include it with the working machinery.  On the other hand, it is a good example of the extensive repairs on the vessel.

 

Cam frames as they would have been positioned in relation to the cam.  The stroke of this cam and cam frame was 6 inches.

 

 

Using a beam from a beam compass to align the two outboard flywheel shafts.

 

Pieces of the flywheel shaft.  On the original, the flange for the cam was cast in place.  In order to include the fake bolt heads, I had to machine it separately and slip it onto the shaft.  This also required that I turn the shaft in two pieces.

 

Shafts in their bearings with flywheel flanges attached.

 

 

 

[wyz]

You're metalwork is something to behold.  Beautiful!  Glenn, you're setting the bar awfully darn high for anyone else wanting to build a riverboat.

[druxey]

Bee-utiful, Glenn! I'm getting addicted to your weekly progress postings. Might be fun to show the kludged spare cam frame....

[captainbob]

Thanks for going into such detail on your build of the Heroine. It is interesting to see the similarities and at the same time the differences to later riverboats.

 

Bob

[Cathead]

I agree with Bob, I really appreciate the step-by-step photos and detail you're sharing, something I've been far worse about on my build. It's interesting both as a model builder, and it  helps me better understand how this machinery works. 

[EdT]

I can add nothing to what has been said except another WOW!

 

Ed

[Keith_W]

I didn't realize how big this build was ... until I saw the clamps on the frame. Holy moly, this thing is HUGE!

[Canute]

Let me add another WOW. Impressive machining, Glenn.

[gjdale]

I'll join the "Wow"-sers, Glenn! Just superb.

[ggrieco]

Thanks everybody,

 

I can't tell you how much your comments mean to me!

 

Glenn