Henry Grace a Dieu (Great Harry) by Louie da fly - FINISHED - Scale 1:200 - Repaired after over 50 yrs of neglect

[ChiefClanker]

Great work, Steve! 

 

After seeing you with your glasses, I will have to investigate a pair for myself.

 

Did you carve all the figures in your photos?  At first when seeing the carved figures for you Nef, it seemed like a daunting task.  Now, however, I am convincing myself to try.  What suggestions do you have?

 

Thank you,

Mark

 

[Louie da fly]

Thanks for the likes and kind comments.

 

Mark, I find those magnifiers to be invaluable. They have three levels of magnification, but I almost always use the lowest level. You can get them from auto appliance stores or on-line.

 

Yes, I carved all the figures - at 1:200 it was really pushing the outside of the envelope. I mostly use pear wood (because I've got a lot of it, thanks to neighbours' trees), but I've also tried apricot which is even better. I've never tried it, but the general consensus seems to be that box wood is the best for carving - extremely fine grain - almost like carving plastic.

 

You can see the sequence in carving a figure at 

 

I hope that helps. Other people go about it differently - there are plenty of alternative methods - but I find this works for me.

 

Regards,

 

Steven

[ChiefClanker]

Steve,

It looks like a visit to a local auto store is in order.  I have a small set of third hands with a magnifier, but glasses might be even better.  

 

My garage is getting much closer to being organized and cleaned out.  I have a stack of wood which is not conducive to model ship building.  Most of it will be consigned to the portable fit pit.    The rest will either be put to use for my work bench or cut up and tossed. 

 

Mark 

[Louie da fly]

 A lot of fiddling with the bonaventure - I made the mistake of gluing the lanyards for the deadeyes before I'd got everything adjusted equally. I tried loosening off the lanyards by dissolving the glue, but all that happened is that the deadeyes "popped out" of the strops as I tried to adjust things - the plastic deadeyes were only held to the strops with PVA glue and friction - not a good combination. Then the holes in the deadeyes got gummed up so the lanyards wouldn't go through. So I had to make two more whole shroud/deadeye assemblies to replace the existing ones.

Then tightening the shrouds slackened off the lower bonaventure stay (as you can see in the photo). And I'd already glued in place the lanyards for the deadeyes that tension the stay. Big mistake. So I'm having to remove the stay/deadeye assembly and make a new one. But in the meantime I've been adding ratlines to the lower bonaventure shrouds in the usual way - no clove hitches, just glue (PVA -white glue). The shrouds were unequally spaced - those bits of stick between the shrouds are temporary spacers to keep them apart till the ratlines stabilise the spacing.

The trouble with the PVA, however, is that the residue is shiny. So all the new shrouds and ratlines are shiny. The old ones were probably shiny back in the day as well, but 50 years of dust has probably dulled them off.

To compensate, I've just been experimenting with painting them with watered-down acrylic black paint. I've only done it on one set so far, but it looks promising.

By the way, I'm not totally happy with the configuration of the tackle for lower mizzen stay - the lower deadeye is too close to the mainmast and the two deadeyes are too close together - the lanyards should be longer. I've also decided that the halyard should be belayed to a cleat on the mast instead of to the capstan (otherwise the capstan can't be used for anything else). So I'll have to do a bit of tweaking, otherwise it will all sneer at me later on.

 

Now, a problem I've come across that I'd appreciate help with. The main halyard tackle, which goes to a knight at deck level, seems to foul the tackle of the lower mizzen stay, and I can't figure out what to do about it. I'm sure there must have been a solution to this back in the day, but I can't work out how they could have done it. Does anybody have any ideas?

    

 

Steven

 

 

 

  

 

   

Edited May 29, 2022 by Louie da fly

[Louie da fly]

Hmm, this photo of how Patrick did it with his Pelican may show the way forward - and it confirms me in my resolve to move the deadeyes for the mizzen stay further from the mainmast.

I note that the knight in this photo is turned at right angles to the one in my Great Harry, but even then I think there may still be possible chafing problems.  But I can't see a better solution at the moment.

 

Steven

[Baker]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:08 AM, Louie da fly said:

which goes to a knight at deck level, seems to foul the tackle of the lower mizzen stay

This is also not in the centerline , but a little to the right

Edited June 2, 2022 by Baker

[Louie da fly]

I was going to contact you regarding this, Patrick, but you've beaten me to it. Yes, I'd thought it was a bit off-centre, but I'm following the Lomellina wreck for which they've found the whole of the knight assembly and it appears to have been supported centrally, directly on the keel itself.

And despite the risk of chafing, this seems to be the only way to go. By the way, as you can see my knight is considerably bigger (with more sheaves) than that of the Lomellina - just as the Great Harry is much bigger than the Lomellina herself.

 

Steven

[druxey]

If the mizen stay is attached a bit higher up the main mast, would that give just a little more clearance?

[Louie da fly]

A little, but I don't think terribly much. I'm working on it at the moment, to see how it works out.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

Well, after a lot of trial, and even more error, I seem to have sorted the problem out. The first problem to solve was getting the mizzen stay the right length - as it has a pair of deadeyes and lanyards as part of its length, what I did was to try attaching the two ends separately - one to the lower part of the mainmast, the other to the mizzen just below the top -and then add the lanyards. Bad idea. After many iterations and false starts I realised what I should have done is put the whole assembly together and pull the lanyards roughly to length, then attach the ends to the masts.

 

So I did that - in fact I only threaded the lanyard through a single pair of holes in the deadeyes to start with, to see if it would work - and it worked like a charm (relatively - I discovered when I had the assembly partly threaded that I'd run the lanyard through a gap between the deadeye and the strop instead of through the hole in the deadeye, so I had to pull it all out and do it again. This kind of thing keeps happening to me - I really dread doing this fiddly stuff with ropes - they don't seem to like me and tangle at the slightest opportunity. However, I am learning bit by bit about how the rigging works, so perhaps it's all for the best).

I finished threading the lanyards, and then of course I had to remove the glue from the mainmast, which had accumulated from the false starts. I think I've got rid of it all 

 

And then the same procedure with the lower bonaventure stay:

I'm not totally happy with the way the ends of the strops lie against the stays - I'm considering shortening them so they look tidier, but I might be better leaving well enough alone -they're not perfect, but messing with them might make them worse (worst case scenario I might accidentally cut through the stay and have to start all over again).

 

Then to start on the halyard, threading it through the sheaves of the knight and the block. Not all that easy - I didn't have all that much room - the knight was so close to the fore bulwark of the upper deck that it was difficult getting the tweezers in to grab the free end of the halyard - and I had to do that three times. Oh, and I'd got it through three sheaves when I discovered it was on the wrong side of the stay so I had to unthread it again and re-do it. Finally finished it, and I have to say it looks better. Apart from anything else, the knot at the end of the halyard (which holds it from pulling through the sheave) is now on the forrard side - which means it can't be seen - and what you can see is three nice parallel lines running between the knight and the block.

Not only that but I discovered that when I was putting the knight in place many months ago I had inadvertently put it about 2 millimetres off-centre - just enough to avoid the problem I'd been so concerned about - that the halyards and tyes would chafe on the mizzen stay. Funny how these things turn out, that an earlier mistake solves a later problem.

 

The mizzen stay and main halyard assembly in relation to each other. On the right hand photo you can see the free end of the strop on the lower deadeye isn't tied down properly.

    

In this photo it's now tied down, but not totally happy with the look. As you can see, I haven't pulled the halyards and lanyards tight. I think I'll leave this for the moment and do it when I'm sure it won't have the same nasty effects as last time.

On another subject, I've added all the ratlines to the lower bonaventure shrouds. This photo shows the ratlines in place and in the process of being trimmed to length (I've since completed them). Sorry about the photo quality - the automatic focus on my phone is very frustrating.

 

Steven

[Baker]

5 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

Funny how these things turn out, that an earlier mistake solves a later problem

I'm glad everything turned out okay for the knight and mizzen stay

[BANYAN]

Ditto.  Persistence pays off - looks good Steven.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Starting to rig the fore course and topsail. I've been following Anderson, as he's the nearest thing to contemporary for this period - only 60-100 years too late. But is it just me or do others think he's really difficult to read? I find I have to have my wits about me to follow what he's saying.

 

First thing I did was the topsail halyard and tye, but Anderson says the tye went through a sheave in the topmast. There's no way I was going to try drilling a hole in that fore topmast (or the main topmast, for that matter) - look how thin it is! 

So instead I faked it - a short section of tye leading out from the front of the mast, and another, longer one from the rear, running down to a block just below the base of the fighting top - apparently the same bit of rope, but in fact each wrapped around the mast by a single turn, looking rather like a parrel. I decided to leave the parrel truck off - too confusing. 

 

       

 A "runner" goes through the block - the fixed end to the port side, the runner to another block with the halyard, which has its free end and fixed end both going to the starboard side.

I decided to do ALL the rigging for the larboard side of the forecourse, and once I'd done that do the starboard side. So far I've done clewline, sheet and tack, plus the topsail sheet (all left loose for the time being).

The sheet for the course is supposed to start from a ringbolt or eyebolt set into the side of the hull just in front of the main channel. I hadn't planned to bother with that - that would be pretty tiny, but then I though "Why not?" - so I got some thin wire, wrapped it around a sewing needle and actually made an eyebolt that looks right!

     

And I've found a good way to introduce "belly" into the sails. When I added the boltropes, the scale was so small that there was no way I was going to be able to sew them on - so I just ran a bit of PVA (white)  glue along each edge of the sail and glued cotton onto the edge to act as a boltrope. Now I find that if I dampen the glue and curve the sail (eg with a bit of thread holding up the clew) the curve stays in the sail when the glue dries.

 

       

But now I'm a bit stuck - I began by using cotton crochet thread, which was great for the shrouds and stays, but now I need something a bit thinner for sheets, tacks etc. Unfortunately the thread I have is either too thin (sewing cotton) or too thick (crochet thread). I'm going to have to look further afield and get something in between. I know there is good rigging line available but the sizing conventions for crochet thread are in numbers - No. 10 is thick, 20 is thinner etc. and they bear no relation to actual sizes in inches or millimetres, so if I want to order from a ship rigging supplier I have no frame of reference - I can't compare the stuff I want with the stuff I already have. I'm waiting till tomorrow to go to a specialty sewing etc shop to see if I can get finer crochet thread. Otherwise . . .

 

Steven

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by Louie da fly

[GrandpaPhil]

Steven,

  Try upholstery thread.  It’s thicker than sewing thread but finer than crochet yarn.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, mate. If I don't get any joy with the crochet thread (today) I'll start looking at upholstery thread as an alternative. 

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

Success! I've found upholstery thread that does the job in the right colour, plus some other kind of thread which I can't remember that's a tiny bit thinner, in off-white cotton (which can be dyed to match the existing thread). 

 

Just started replacing the tacks and sheets, and it looks good.

 

No photos so far.

 

BTW, thanks everybody for the likes and supportive comments.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

More larboard rigging for the forecourse and fore topsail.

 

First the martnets (historically, they were the precursors to the leechlines). Quite a complex system - first I had to make a couple of sister blocks (same as a fiddle block, I think). You can see a complete one between the matchstick and the tiny peg - another in progress held in the peg - drilling 2 holes in a piece of wood so close together, it usually splits, so I've glued it back together again and held it in the peg to dry.

And the tackle - one rope though the top sheave of the fiddle block, then running through another block; the other rope through the bottom sheave, running to a (triangular) deadeye - currently partly glued to the strop (thanks henrythestaffy for those wonderful 3D printed deadeyes!
And in place - you can see the single block attached just below the fighting top - it's used to haul the whole assembly tight when furling the sail - and the fiddle block just below that - and running from the fiddle block is a line that runs to the deadeye (about a third of the way up the shrouds in the second photo) which has its lanyards - or more correctly, martnets -through the holes.

    

And the martnets roughly in place - what I thought was the right placement of each lanyard on the leech turned out to be completely wrong - it all got twisted up - I had to re-do them several times, but worked out ok in the end. 

Then tightening the martnets so they hang right. I'm using polyester thread which is VERY springy, and I had to wet it and then glue it down to get the acute angle where the lanyards go through the holes, and to get the threads to hang naturally like rope.

And finally, the martnets at the front of the sail - at the other end of the rope that goes through the bottom sheave of the fiddle block. 

Of course this will have to be done again on the starboard side, and then I have to repeat the whole thing for the main course.

 

But first, I've made a start on the larboard buntlines, then the bowlines - so many ropes! I'll put photos up when I've done them.

 

Steven

Edited June 9, 2022 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

Aiee! Using synthetic line for those martnets must drive you to distraction. Also making those minute sister blocks.... Impressive.

[Louie da fly]

You're right, Druxey. The polyester is a b*gger to work with. I'm thinking of getting some cotton thread the same thickness, and dye it to match. It would certainly be easier.

 

Fortunately I only have to make four sister-blocks for the whole ship - just two for each course - according the C.E. Anderson, the topsails seem either to have had martnets or buntlines, not both - and as the topsails were a lot smaller in 1545, the chances of the Great Harry having martnets on them are pretty low anyway.

 

Steven

Edited June 10, 2022 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

But cotton thread comes in a  myriad of colors - no need to dye, Steven..

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Druxey. That certainly reduces the mucking around I have to do. I made sure I got some cotton thread today - not a perfect colour match, but close enough (particularly as thread thread this thin it's hard to make out the exact colour anyway).

 

I thought I'd post a few progress pics of the ship as it looks overall. Coming along nicely, but so many ropes. But I'm finding it gives me a more than just intellectual understanding of how everything works together - it's all been a bit vague and conceptual up to now, so the hands-on stuff is doing me good. Oh, and the painted sails are looking nice, too - (they're actually more colourful than they show in the photos).

 

 

 

 

Steven

Edited June 11, 2022 by Louie da fly

[druxey]

If you need really thin cotton line, untwist the three strands of thread, wet and hang to dry with a small weight.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks Druxey. I don't need them at the moment, but I might try it if it becomes necessary.

 

Steven

[Ian_Grant]

Looking great!  I happened to catch your talk of thin line - I'm searching for something to use for ratlines at 1:150 scale, something fine and non-fuzzy. Would this cotton line meet the need; if so what is it please?

 

Thanks,

Ian

[liteflight]

Steven

The cloth of Gold sails are magnificent, they will be the eye-catching “stars” of the show ( and probably outshine Hal)

 

I’m sure you have documentary evidence for the Tudor clothes-peg

 

andrew

[Louie da fly]

2 hours ago, liteflight said:

I’m sure you have documentary evidence for the Tudor clothes-peg

Of course - how could you doubt it? 

 

Steven

[Old Collingwood]

This is looking Superb  Steven,    your commitment  and  patience  is making  a  Truly  amazing  relica.

 

OC.

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everybody for the likes and comments.

 

OC, strictly it should probably be better described not as a replica (since so much is unknown) as a speculative/theoretical reconstruction.

 

I've just been playing with carving out blocks. When I first started I just made them circular with a hole in the middle, but as I've gone along I've been thinking - what the hey, it doesn't take much more work to make them look like real blocks, so gradually I've been making them closer and closer to the real thing. No sheaves at this scale, obviously, and just a single hole for the thread to go through (two would split the block), but I've started making them longer and shaping them more like a real block, adding a groove for the strop and putting the hole closer to the end of the block, like it's got a sheave, (though I'm not always as successful as I'd like with that - the one below has it pretty much in the centre). Note the enormous match stick which I keep to fool you guys into thinking this stuff is really small.

And I've been making eyebolts (or perhaps fake ringbolts) out of thin wire, wrapped around a needle.

 

So far I've got just about all the running rigging attached to the larboard side of the forecourse - buntlines, martnets (forerunners of leechlines), clewlines, halyards, lifts, sheets, tacks, bowlines and braces, and I've started on the starboard side. No footropes - they hadn't been invented yet.

On reflection it would have been easier to do each line on both sides at the same time, but I'm learning as I go and each line required enough getting my head around it without also doing it twice. It did make the whole thing a bit lopsided, especially as I've been keeping the downhauls taut with tiny clothes-pegs, which have been weighing that side of the sail down. Now that I'm more confident, when I get to the next sails I'll be doing both sides simultaneously. 

 

And next time I won't add the topsail until I'd done all the rigging on the course. It made access very difficult. Well, we live and learn.

 

Still bumbling along - taking long breaks between steps so I can recover my equanimity and face the next step with a fresh mind. But making steady progress and pleased with how it's going.

 

Steven

 

[Roger Pellett]

Steven,

 

This is much more than a replica.  It is your interpretation of currently available information.  Good work!

 

Roger

[BANYAN]

That's half the fun Steven; learning as we go

 

cheers

 

Pat